Graupner Speed 480 Plus question
 

Hello, I just bought a "micro drifter" cat hull today from Fine Design that has a speed 480 plus installed (the one with the ESC on the end). I was curious about the voltage handling of the motor. It says "7.2......12V/18A". I would assume it is only a 7.2V motor- BUT since it has the 12V also, I was wondering if that is 7.2 THROUGH 12 volts that it can handle. Anyone have any experience with it? I ran a 3 cell 2100 TP lipo through it for a few minutes earlier today with no problems, but would like to know for sure. I am not "too" concerned with melting it, I'll just go brushless then, but would like to know I am not really overpowering it.

Also- if it will handle the 3 cell- I am kind of limited for room in this hull. I initially set the pack lengthwise accross the rear of the boat, it works, but obviously, the boat was a handful to control with the pack so far back. I am not thrilled about putting the pack on one side of the boat, but I was wondering if I could get away with putting it on the left side? I figure the boat wanted to torque roll a little anyway, so it may not hurt, but I don't want to find out the hard way (ie- flip and sink :) ) that it isn't a good idea to mount it there!! Thanks!
Joe
PS- This boat on the 3 cell was flat out insane :).

RE: Graupner Speed 480 Plus question
 

about the cell prob, get 4 mabye 6 cells, and split them in half and connect them to te same wire.

you can seperate the cells but it dont no how 2. ask a sero rc'r or find a how 2 on it.

cheers zane

RE: Graupner Speed 480 Plus question
 

Thanks, but kind of missed the question :). I know how to wire cells, packs, etc. I was curious if the motor is made to handle the additional voltage of the 3 cell lipo (11.1 volts). If not, I will stick with 6-8 cells (7.2-9.6 volts) until I go brushless. Thanks again.
Joe

RE: Graupner Speed 480 Plus question
 

Yes it should , if it says rite on the esc/motor it can do 12 volts then your good , and plus your only running 11.1 , and i wouldnt suggest offsetting the battery because of the turns , it might run strait in a long run , but good luck Turning it with out a roll , i would suggest just keeping it in the same place or mount it far ahead

RE: Graupner Speed 480 Plus question
 

See that's my thing- I don't know if it means 7.2-12V/18A- OR if it is a 7.2 volt motor with a 12v/18A ESC. This is where I am stumped. I don't know how else to mount the lipo, I may just end up using spit stick packs since that is all there is really room for. With the batery in the rear, it ran fine up on plane, but low speed stuff was scary- as was any little wave it would hit lol.
Joe

RE: Graupner Speed 480 Plus question
 

Joe,
Since the motor & ESC says 12V/18A then it would mean the thing is capable of operating from '0'V to 12 V at no more than 18 A. The '0' V thingy is a little rediculous so the low voltage cut-off point is where ever the supplied voltage will run the motor at the required performance. Less than 7.2 volts will work, but that doesn't tell you how well it will work.

Batteries are weight and volume, which means ease in placement in the hull, which also means ballast, which will naturally affect the CG and/or balance of the the thingy. If moving the batteries will result in a better 'balance', then why not? If the boat is only going to turn in one direction then the 'weight' of the boat can be sort of one-sided, sort of. Otherwise, keeping the balance/CG centered, and low, and as light as possible for the particular hull, is a better idea. Which is just a long winded way of saying that if moving the things is possible, and works okay, then do it. The only 'trick' to it is that while you're in the process of finding the best placement, keep your foot out of the throttle (which, depending on the boat and operator, can be a real trick!).
Have fun.
- 'Doc

RE: Graupner Speed 480 Plus question
 

Thanks for the reply! I went today and toyed around some more. I am starting to think that this is the wrong motor setup for this boat. With both the 6 cell and 3 cell lipo, the boat will run for a lap or so, then start surging- sure sign that the ESC is over loaded. This was with an x430 prop on both packs. I dropped to an X427 and with the 6 cell, the boat can't even get on plane- with the 3 cell lipo, it boogies along, but starts surging after a little bit, again due to overloading the ESC. I don't know which way to go now- I pulled the ESC off the end and installed a CEN ESC that I have kicking around on it to see how it is with a stronger ESC, but I still think it is more than the motor can handle. I did a "static" amp draw reading on it and it was getting mid 20's with the 6 cell and 427 prop- which like I said, doesn't get the boat on plane. Anyone have any setup tips for a motor/ESC/prop for this hull? It is 17" long and 5" wide- so no 540 sized motors (they won't fint anyway :(). I am wondering if an eflite park 400 brushless will work, but it has the small shaft. Any recommendations?
Joe

RE: Graupner Speed 480 Plus question
 

yeh, how about a 400 brushless motor?

RE: Graupner Speed 480 Plus question
 

Would that have enough torque to replace the 480 with? I put my Park 370 5400 KV motor in it as a quick test and it couldn't even spin the shaft to "start up". Any recomendations for 400 brushless motors besides the E flite stuff?
Joe

RE: Graupner Speed 480 Plus question
 

Maybe I'll try to get a 540 sized motor in there. I have a couple of good ones here, but I prefer the lighter weight of the 400-480. ugh.

RE: Graupner Speed 480 Plus question
 

Feiago, here is the link. http://www.starluckrc.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=21_28

RE: Graupner Speed 480 Plus question
 

Thanks for the link!! Now- which one would you go with for this type of set up- the 08, 10, or 12? Maybe the 10 since it is right in the middle? My gut want's the 08, but it may be too much with the x427 prop on the lipo should I want to run it..

RE: Graupner Speed 480 Plus question
 

Do you know of anywhere to get affordable ESC's that can handle that load? I saw a few brushless controllers on their site, but wanted something smaller- similar to the heat shrunk units (castle, hacker, etc.). Thanks again!!
Joe

RE: Graupner Speed 480 Plus question
 

Sorry I don't know where to get a good cheap ESC. I have the same problem. I just got the Hacker Master 40. Its not as small as I really wanted and it wasn't cheap either.
I would say the 10 also, because thats the one I have.

RE: Graupner Speed 480 Plus question
 

What hull are you running the 10 in? What batteries do you run? Surface or sub-surface drive? What prop? Ever get a MPH on it?Sorry for all the questions, I am just fairly new to the brushless/fast electric stuff. The couple of fast boats I have, I just got what I needed from Chris Fine and assembled them. I may just go with an airplane ESC since they are ~$60, I just have to "modify" the throttle trigger to spring all the way back to where reverse/brake would normally be on my transmitter. Not a big deal. Thanks again!
Joe

RE: Graupner Speed 480 Plus question
 

You can follow my progress on one of my threads. "My Gecko Brushless Experiments" I am threw with the Mamba test and now I am working on mounting the 400 Feigao, all I need now is a 1/8" to 2.3mm shaft coupler. I have a straight 2.3 to 2.3 coupler so all I have to do is get one side drilled out to 1/8", but it has to be perfectly straight, there is no room for error. I am running BP1100 cells, sometimes 10 cells and I have tested the Mamba on 8 cells to try to reduce heat, because it was so fast it was uncontrolable anyway. So check out the thread I will be updating it as soon as I get the 400 in. There is a video of my Gecko with the Mamba 6800kv on 8 IP1100 cells. On 10 cells it was insane.

RE: Graupner Speed 480 Plus question
 

Thanks. I tried my E-Flite Park 370 5400 kv (similar to the 18th scale brushless motors), but it couldn't even spin the prop shaft to start up. I think it would have been better off with a 1/8" steel shaft instead of the heavy flex shaft that is in it- take a lot just to spin it for a little motor. I'll check out that thread now. Thanks.
Joe

RE: Graupner Speed 480 Plus question
 

Hi Joe,

Finedesign gets his Micro Drifters from Hydro & Marine ( www.hydromarine.de ), if you go to that site and select the Micro series, you'll see all versions of the Micro Drifter with the suggestioned motorizing...

The standard cellcount for the 480 motor is seven (8,4V), the other numbers you mentioned refer to the controller.

Small cats are sometimes difficult to set up, so don't dispair and keep trying!

Regards, Jan.

RE: Graupner Speed 480 Plus question
 

Thanks for the link. However- I don't think it is a hydro & marine hull- I initially thought it was a micro drifter, but it is actually 2" shorter and 1" narrower than that one. I saw a label in it, I have to pull the motor to see what it was again. Anyway, the 480 is dead- it obvioulsy didn't like the 3 cell lipo :). I am torn with which way to go now. It seemed to be pulling too many amps even with 6 cells and x427 prop. I think one issue with the boat is it was put together with a .126 flex cable which, with the "S" bend in the tube, is harder to turn than I would like for such a small motor. I almost wonder if a smaller cable will have less drag through the bend? I don't know which route to go now- I can go with another 480 and stick to 6 cells, but it isn't as fast as I'd like, so that leaves the 400 Feigao brushless motors, but I am worried about current draw since it seems to be an amp hog. I'd hate to cook a good brushless motor/ESC!!
Joe
PS- checked out the site- can't read most of it :).

RE: Graupner Speed 480 Plus question
 

What brushless ESC were you planning on running with the Feigao 400?

RE: Graupner Speed 480 Plus question
 

balsa products has one for ~$50 that is 40 A continuous, but they are out of stock :(.
Joe

RE: Graupner Speed 480 Plus question
 

OK, I just found an old Wattage 400 Cobalt I had sitting in a box (unused), I am going to give that a shot tomorrow. It is rated at 6-10 volts, so hopefully the 11.1 volts of the 3 cell lipo- with some throttle control- will hold up a bit. Doesn't have the RPM's that the 480 had, but DAMN it has some serious torque. I did the bath tub test and with the stock motor, even on the 3 cell, it hardly had any thrust. With the cobalt and my 6 cell, I could hardly hold it back- made quite the whirlpool in my tub lol. I know it isn't a true test, but thrust is night and day over the other motor- just don't know how it will be once it gets beyond the holeshot. We'll find out tomorrow :).
Joe

RE: Graupner Speed 480 Plus question
 

Smaller you said; could it be a Mini Iceberg by MHZ? These cats are 440mm x 126 mm. (about 17"x 5")

Great little boats, but hard to run, as they flip easily (very easily...)

Regards, Jan.

RE: Graupner Speed 480 Plus question
 

kwiktsi, let us know how that cobalt 400 runs, I am trying to figure out what to do with my Gecko. The cobalt is a brushed motor right?

RE: Graupner Speed 480 Plus question
 

pomplebled- yup, I spoke with Chris (Fine Design) today and he said it was made by MHZ. Yeah, it does like to flip easily :). I just picked up an astro 05 4000kv long can brushless from him today to try in it- says it will probably draw less amps than the other two motors and make quite a bit more power since it is a better match for the boat- I'll know tomorrow :). Quick question- I bought a Hacker 70 ESC (a bit overboard, but I wanted something I could always use later in something else). With such a small motor, do you think I need to bother hooking up the water cooling lines?

grk- that 400 cobalt seems like it may have worked on the 6 cells, but on the 3 cell lipo, it was smoking after a couple small circles with varying throttle!
Joe