The Unofficial Outboard FE Tunnel Thread
 

I wanted to do this awhile ago but never had any photos of my hull to start it with.

Post your FE Tunnel here along with specs, questions, advice, comments ect.

I'll start with my BBY 27" race Tunnel
SV27 motor and ESC
Runs an X642
4s LiPo

Many clubs have introduced a FE tunnel class. Limited to the SV motor

Here are a couple photos
1st Pic is pulling out of the hole
2nd pic is 30mph pass
3rd pic is 38mph pass
4th pic is the result of too much chop/full scale boat waves





If you are looking to get in to FE Tunnel boat here are many links to parts and hulls.

Boat Hulls:
Leecraft: http://www.leecraftracing.com/product.htm
Dumas Sprint: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXE319&P=7
Graupner F1 http://www.a1-modellbau.de/de/dept_320.html
Hopper Boats: http://www.htbboats.com/htbtunnels.htm
Aquacraft VS-1: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXUYD4&P=ML
Hyperperformance TX21 http://hyperprod.bizhosting.com/tx21_tunnel_hull.html
Hydro & Marine Skater http://www.hydromarine.de/hm_10068.htm
BBY: http://www.bbyracing.com/electunnelsandcats.asp

ESC's:
SV27 Esc http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXMYB8&P=0
Proboat 45A http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...prb3309&cat=75
X Power 100A http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...od=xpo-blb100a
Hydra 120 http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...d=cas-hydra120
Castle 240 http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...d=cas-hydra240

Outboard Lower Leg's:
REK Composite Leg http://www.drcwebservices.com/ffe/hardware.htm
Hyperperformance Angle Drive http://hyperprod.bizhosting.com/3_5_angle_drive.html
Hyperperformance Bullet Drive http://hyperprod.bizhosting.com/3_5_bullet_drive.html
K&B http://www.mecoa.com/kb/parts.htm - Search site for 3.5 or 7.5 leg

Motors:
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/products.php?cat=42


Motor Mounts:
Hyperperformance Angle/Bullet Drive Mount http://hyperprod.bizhosting.com/3_5_...tor_mount.html
Hi Jack 3.5 Mount (Looks like http://www.namba9.net/partsforsale.htm) Email Vic at [email protected]
Dubro 3.5 Mount http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...p?&I=LXD582&P=
Dubro 7.5 11cc Mount http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXD583&P=7

Props:
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/categories.php?cat=16

RCU MEMBERS TUNNEL HULL VIDEO LINKS

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=QDtqs1yiL8I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTjdmah_FQI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDWNUx5yMGc


Ryan

RE: The Unofficial Outboard FE Tunnel Thread
 

Ok, good idea Ryan,
The forward shot of your tunnel is awesome, jumping through the water, good shot. Boat looks great. Remember back to 06 when I was first getting into tunnels, running Neo 700x brushed?(rcgroups). This is the same hull, still going.
A pair of Sprints, one electric and one nitro. A few forum members will recall my ravings about how a mate and I run very similar setups.
The blue runs stock O.S. 21 engine, 42mm prop & 20% nitro.
The electric runs a 1650kv Align 600xl, Poly 4s 3300mah 25c, Older Turnigy 100amp esc and 40mm prop. Boats are very well matched up with this setup. No video yet.


Peter

I'll try and post some on water pics soon. I type to you left handed after my hand had an arguement with a KB45 powered 5 inch ducted fan.[:@]

RE: The Unofficial Outboard FE Tunnel Thread
 

The 1515/2.5 in its mock up. When both my hands worked, I'd just cut out a flat peice of ali to attach to the mount. Neu are 23mm spacing??? Align 25mm, correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks from the temporary left,

Don't play with 6s powered 5 inch edfs - Peter

RE: The Unofficial Outboard FE Tunnel Thread
 

One question, it looks like the motors are probably getting wet all of the time, maybe even submerged fully, that doesn't hurt anything?

RE: The Unofficial Outboard FE Tunnel Thread
 

I am running a TopSpeed II with a SV motor and esc setup on 4S1P 4350 lipos with a REK lower leg
Using a X442 prop everthing was good
I tried a X 440/3 but things were a little hot

RE: The Unofficial Outboard FE Tunnel Thread
 

No.

Especially on brushless motors.

RE: The Unofficial Outboard FE Tunnel Thread
 

I'm inspired. I think my next boat will be one of these. Ryan, do you know what kind of speed you are getting out of the SV powertrain? Must be a good setup if the clubs are standardizing to it. I may want to go that way as I'm still thinking of putting the ammo in the SV. I'd want to make use of the SV stuff somehow. 10x8, that valvoline boat is beautiful. I love the exposed wood. Sorry to hear about your digits.:( Two hands are a must in this hobby.

RE: The Unofficial Outboard FE Tunnel Thread
 

i think that the new AQ VS1 would make a GREAT candidate for electric power, seeing as they say it is built very light...

RE: The Unofficial Outboard FE Tunnel Thread
 

Scott,
I'm getting around 36-38mph, I can push it harder but things tend to heat up too much before I finsh my 6 lap race. It's a decent setup, my hull is a bit on the light and flimsy side. I have added 1/2-3/4 lb dead weight steel just to make it more stable.

Peter,
Your tunnels have always looked great. I'm a big fan of the tunnel and rigger hulls. Not enough people run the tunnels, mostly due to availability of lowers and lack of info. I'm hoping this thread greatly helps out. Also, my Neu's have 25mm spacing. The older versions had different smaller spacing.

JM
The VS1 would be a good candidate for low power applications. Something like the SV system. For a non restricted 4s class a hull around the 32-34" mark would be ideal. Or something for a mod 3.5cc nitro engine. Perhaps the TS3, when it comes out.

Weight for FE is no longer an issue. Boats should be designed to with stand crashes at the speeds they will most likely achieve. If the hull is a heavier layup, just up the power.
Even with my SV motor setup I'm adding pretty significant amounts of weight. My hull is just too light.

Ryan

RE: The Unofficial Outboard FE Tunnel Thread
 

I've never seen anyone using an XL sized motor on a tunnel.

Is this because they would add too much weigh to the rear of the hull?

RE: The Unofficial Outboard FE Tunnel Thread
 

Weight at the rear is not that big of an issue. If you are sinking the boat due to motor, there is bigger issue.

Rear weight just has to be countered by adding weight ahead of the CofG. In an inboard style motor hull the weight of the motor is added closely to the CofG for the hull so the counter balance weight does not need to be offset as much.

With an in or outboard motor, we are using the same method for achieving the proper CofG for the hull.

My results show that the CofG for a Tunnel Works best around 27-35%

Ryan

RE: The Unofficial Outboard FE Tunnel Thread
 

10x8,
Did you build that boat? If so, did you design the hull? Are the plans available?

Thanks,
dayton

RE: The Unofficial Outboard FE Tunnel Thread
 

If you have a CAD program, then there are a few tunnel hull designs on model power boat dot com that you can get for free.
(but you have to register an account with them first)(it keeps their bandwidth to a minimum because you can't link directly to the plans)

RE: The Unofficial Outboard FE Tunnel Thread
 

flyfloatr - No, I've dunked mine plenty of times, both the brushed 700 neo and various brushless motors. I can't imagine it is good for them though. End of running, I'll just spray some kind of penatrating oil like WD, give it a blip out of the water and let it dry. If I dunk it right in the beginning of a run, I will only check for hull leak and just run again. Someone may be able to correct me here?

eboat - Your TS2 looks awesome. Great job. Do you use Spektrum? I use DX3.0, no probs, love it. I also used X442 on the Sprint and it was very fast. Down here that insane woodpecker is Crane Cams. I put a shot of my 442 by your mob cmdi. You made me laugh with the bird and I might follow that scheme.:D

dayton - Thanks for your kind comments buddy, appreciated for both the boat and me digits. Yes I built the boat. I had some post somewhere about it in here or rcgroups. Originally had an EP1 on it?? Kit #1326 - Part number 62-343. The Hot Shot Sprint 3.5 designed by Northwest Tunnel Hull expert, Jerry Dunlap. Sorry, but I love saying that. You can get it from Tower for under $100 I think. Full size plans, wood kit, great feeling upon completion, never sell, keeper. Great tunnel for electric too. I highly recommend it and I still think you can talk to the man. Take care.

j.m. - The Align 600 is just labelled xl, not sure what you mean? It weighs 320gms inc flex shaft/coupler, my neo 700 was 401gms. There is an older Align 600l and the newer 600xl (1620 & 1650kv). They are heli motors, but work as outboards very well. Matched with KB/REK drives, they are lighter than my Nitro .21's. I have some Align 600 motors due to heli father and friends who feel the need to instantly upgrade their motors.

Ryan - ta for 'mm' on neu, I guess I have an older one, 1515/2.5 D/S. It originally did flat out 4 laps on full power 4s and the owner sold it to me. Reputable dealer so I am happy, 1/2 price with Khuler? I was told I can run 6s on this motor but prop down to 37mm and start from there. He ran it in a mono.

Tunnel nutters

Regards
Peter

RE: The Unofficial Outboard FE Tunnel Thread
 

Here's another tip. Always handy knowing a human metal machinist. Can make up custom parts for you. Seek them and befriend them, give them food. Most of my mounts are made from a guy that works as an engineer for an Airline. He likes RC. I'll make a mock up and send it to him. Mock ups require no motor to be sent to said engineer so he cannot tamper. The actual full mount is from Capt Vic. I'm talking connection motor to leg.


Peter

RE: The Unofficial Outboard FE Tunnel Thread
 

Capt Vics mighty and best mount. He is like Wonka and only opens the factory once a year with just a few.
Adjustable, bewdddddiful(sic) and practical.

Peter

PS - Don't ask, I don't know.

RE: The Unofficial Outboard FE Tunnel Thread
 

Bobs original Gadjet with brushed motor in 05. He purchased the outboard unit complete on a trip to Germany. And our successor, the Hydro Marine Skater.

Many people have seen these shots, but with this ep f1 forum, we should finally be able to keep them together.


Peter

RE: The Unofficial Outboard FE Tunnel Thread
 

Here are shots of: On the Job Bob and myself. I hope I don't offend anyone.

Peter

RE: The Unofficial Outboard FE Tunnel Thread
 

What I mean by XL motors are inrunners that are at least 75mm long. Like this:
http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...prod=fei-540XL

Or a Neu 1521 or larger.

(the 1515 is a bit less than 70mm long)

The longer can gives the motor considerably mote torque.

Running a large prop should be great on tunnels.

Do you guys like the Fuller's lower unit or the BBY lower unit?

I've heard the fullers is better, and it's cheaper.

RE: The Unofficial Outboard FE Tunnel Thread
 

I would consider a 1515 to be an XL can. They have far more power than a Feigao XL can.

Do you have a 1515 or 1521? a 1521 would be more like an XXL can. I own one and they make tons of power. :)

BBY uses the exact same REK Lower as does Fullers as far as I know.
I ordered the BBY tunnel and received the REK outdrive with it. Perhaps BBY still sells the old Lower or they just haven't updated there site.

Ryan

RE: The Unofficial Outboard FE Tunnel Thread
 

No, i'm afraid they are different.
Fullers:
http://www.drcwebservices.com/ffe/images/cfoutboard.jpg
BBY:
http://www.bbyracing.com/images/bbycarbonobleg.jpg

Yeah, i know that the 1515 makes some power, but i think some of that is due to the generally higher Kv of the motor. And also, they are 4 pole motors, which is where they gain most of their efficiency. Feigao uses small guage wire because its considerably cheaper, and therefore, they have to put more winds in the motor to get good torque.

Has anyone ever tried a KB45XL on an outboard?

They can put out more horsepower than a stock KB 7.5cc outboard.

RE: The Unofficial Outboard FE Tunnel Thread
 

Is this it?

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXE319&P=7

Where would a not so picky beginner purchase the motor leg?

RE: The Unofficial Outboard FE Tunnel Thread
 

If you want the carbon lower leg, i'd go with the fullers complete set.

If you don't want to go that route, then you can purchase an old K&B outboard for cheap on ebay, then use the fullers electric motor adapter (i'm sure there's others out there, too.) to put an electric motor on there.

RE: The Unofficial Outboard FE Tunnel Thread
 

JM
What I was saying is I don't know if BBY still sells that as I ordered the BBY tunnel right in the middle when he was making the switch over to the new style leg. I received the REK lower unit as opposed to the one you have linked. But this was a tunnel/lower leg combo purchase.

1515 1.5D vs a Feigao 6XL. Nearly equal kv, but the Neu will greatly outperform the Feigao by a huge margin. Just to get an idea of what I mean I'll say this. In a 4s powered rigger, the Neu 1.5D will spin a 38mm prop easily. The Feigao will burn up on a 4s setup

More magnetic poles does not necessarily mean increased efficiency. Material Quality best shows the difference in efficiency such as bearings, wire quality, and slot or stator laminations. A better comparison in that respect would be lehner vs Neu. Lehner motors are 2 pole and compare in efficiency very closely.
Feigao and Lehner have to use more winds in their motor to drop the kv's down. As you increase the number of poles in a motor of equal size the kv of the motor drops for the same number of turns. Neu can parallel more strands of wire with in a 1 turn motor achieving very low resistance. Lehner would have to use more turns to achieve the same Kv. End result is very similar.

Scott
The Hot Shot 3.5 was my first Tunnel back in 1998. It was pretty good but I wouldn't recommend it if you plan to go more than 35mph or so. It's quite small and doesn't handle waves well at all! I owned the wood kit as I was told back then that the ABS kit needed work to run well. Too many inperfect edges to fix.

I agree with JM, use the REK lower from Fullers.

Ryan

RE: The Unofficial Outboard FE Tunnel Thread
 

All of my motor experience is in outrunners, and i agree with what you are saying. Except about the number of poles. a 9 slot stator with the same number of turns as a 12 slot stator and the same diameter will give more rpm, but less efficiency.