Mario Giordano

Hi guys, can someone post some pics of boats using 2 z-drives? This is the first time i mount these drives and don't want to cut off the arms for steering, i saw some setup with these cut and wondering if can be done without cutting? Another doubt i have is the best distance between them, thanks.

Regards

martno1fan

Hi Mario have a look at Matts hull might help with some ideas.
Mart
http://imageevent.com/justaddwata/my...lesspanamajack

Jackal1983

Thankyou for the link Martin... a very nice build!
I'm also doing the same thing putting twin drives on the boat. I'm starting to look at what hight and position should they me at!

Jack

Justaddwata

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Take a look through some of these builds - not my pics or work but the techniques used are well worth noting.
http://imageevent.com/justaddwata/mo...ipsfromgermany

Mario - with the drives further apart they will end up higher on the hull and in less contact with water (especially when cornering). Cutting the ears off the horns is not desirable but preferable to other possible performance losses. You could try to mount the drives as close together as possible while the horns clear and see what you think about the position.

Drive height is typically having the tip of the drive bulb (also the centerline of the propshaft) 1/8" - 1/4" above the running surface of the hull. I have heard of some big issues with the bulb causing the hulls to spin out when cornering if the bulb is too low in the water - basically acts like a big trim tab. Believe there are some MHZ instructions for mounting drives somewhere on here - will track them down if I get the chance

Mario Giordano

Thanks guys, Matt & Mart, well the Panama Jack (very thorough work) is the example of what i don't want to do, no because is wrong, but because i simply don't t want to cut the drives, is it possible? If you look at the first pic you'll see exactly of what i'm talking about, also can check the distance between them without cutting the arms, perhaps too distant?
Matt, as you said, it is not necessary, these will go on a hunter, do you think I'll have problems when cornering?
These are the last moedel of the classic mhz z-drive, in my opinion, the older was better, and the S6 the best, unfortunately out of production.
Regards

Jackal1983

I think you'd have enough room on the back of that boat not to cut them!

Justaddwata

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Hunter is a wide boat - if there is one where you could have the drives spaced a little further apart then it is the Hunter IMO. Believe another reason the drives tend to be close together is the spacing between the gearbox outputs - the way the MHZ box is made you really have to keep the drives close. I have some pics of my buddies Hunter build here if you have not seen them. http://imageevent.com/justaddwata/wareham5 and http://imageevent.com/justaddwata/wareham6 The Hunter is a surprisingly large hull - not so much long - but cavernous.

Mario Giordano

Yes Jackal the hunter is shorter but wider than the 84 apache!
Matt i had seen that fantastic boat some time ago, is just fantastic, and also mounts the S6!!  i wondered who has it now?
I'm starting the build of the hunter, but i'm planning to do it electric, i started a thread in the electric section, i really prefer gas power but as i said, too many problems here in italy running gas boats.
Well Matt, so i can mount these z-drives without cutting them, right? even if they are more spaced?
Thanks

Regards

Justaddwata

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I believe Armand has that hunter now down in Florida - I dont believe he is a member here and not sure he is active with RC at the moment. Nice build though - same buddy built the Miss Geico I owned and the Canoe (MHZ Fountain) I still have - his attention to detail is impressive!.

I dare say you will be fine not cutting the horns from the drives on the Hunter. More I think about it - it is not a huge difference in spacing. Also be sure to use a tie rod screwed directly into the drive and not using the extension bracket on the drive - the extension bracket is not very strong and a failure will allow the props to clash and all kinds of damage to occur. You will see on the Panama Jack the new location (one of the polished brackets is broken) http://imageevent.com/justaddwata/my...=0&w=4&s=0&z=4

Mario Giordano

Well Matt, what can i say, that Canoe is amazing! one of tte biggest or just the biggest rc mono hull around, I would like to make one someday, maybe with NXT drives. Since you're one of the few owners of this wonderful boat, how much power you need to move this beast?
I'm curious to know something, how many boats you own?

Justaddwata

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A hull like the canoe would move along reasonably well with twin inlines (Zenoahs, RCMKs etc), twin blatas or polinis, twin quickdraw 70's or similar. It is no doubt big enough for most power plants - MHZ were offering it with the 125cc Rotaxmax gocart motor (a motor they have since discontinued) and were running that power through an overdrive and then splitter box to a pair of S6 drives. Here is what the former US dealer was claiming "A new hot configuration, includes our own Rotax MAX 125, 21kW (28 hp) engine driving two counter-rotating Speedmaster S6s though it's integrated 2:1 gearbox. These Speedmaster S6 drives will turn 4-blade 80 mm props at 22000 RPM without breaking a sweat! Our initial testing with the MHZ-Rotax 125 engine (M-1506), at only 8000RPM (=16000 prop RPM through the integrated 2:1 gearbox), we measured 88 km/hr (55 mph) with the GPS. At this point we have the engine running comfortably at 12000 RPM. WIth the 17000 RPM the Rotax can turn there is even still more room for improvement." Unfortunately the S6 drives really were breaking a sweat and were not lasting long at all - I saw this boat selling pretty cheap last year. (there is a pic of the setup on the former US distributors site - http://www.mhzusa.com/Muscle-Firewat...ave-m-1751.htm).

I was looking at repowering mine a while back with inline triple zenoahs or twin Mathe 70's or the then talked about Mathe 80's but never heard back from the dealer on those. Basically looking at pull start options as the belt start CMB 35 RS are not that convenient.

Hull is pretty heavy too - Bare hull is probably around 35-40 pounds. Making one RTR and under 70 pounds is a challenge (believe the one with the Rotax was over 100pounds). [link=http://imageevent.com/justaddwata/morerc/size]Moving, transporting, and launching[/link] - are a challenge. Realistically - the 65" version is probably the more fun route - same boat only 100% more manageable and 300% more affordable. I will be listing the canoe for sale soon - just no time, room, or help to use her. Boxing her up will be tricky though - Overall she is 105" x 25" x 24" and in the 70+ pound range.

As far as how many boats - I had around 50 gas boats at the start of the year but sold a couple (Geico and MTI among them) this year so I am down a few. I think getting down to a favorite dozen or so might be a new years resolution (I know the wife likes the sound of it). They are not all RTR though - many are in various stages of build or rebuild. I need to spend more time in the workshop (been saying that the past few years though too).

Mario Giordano

Well Matt as you said is very difficult to move with that boat, I think it need always 2 guys for move it, right? I know something about, the 84 apache is also very difficult to move with, but if I were you, i would not sell her, you have one of the few masterpieces of rc boats and worth to have it, so think about it. I would not sell my 84 apache for nothing, is my creature, and with me remains!!
I can`t believe how many boats you have!! I have only 4 boats and 2 of them are under construction.
Here are some pics of how will see the stern of the hunter.
Regards

P.S. Don't sell the boat, you never know, if i reach the U.S.A., maybe Providence or New Jersey, you would have someone to help you with that boat

Jackal1983

You could tie rod twin servos together and pull and push each drive... Then tierd the two drives so they cant touch.