Ron Olson

My Feedback: (1)

There is some discussion on another boat forum site about establishing rlues for a RTR class imvolving mostly the Vegas and ProBoat hydro's. Seeing how we have more owners of these boats in here than they have, you input would be appreciated.
since this will be considered a low-cost way of racing and a way for people to get into racing cheaply, there would be limited mods to the boats. So far the consensus is to keep the engines and exhaust bone stock, use either the pull-starter or a hand-held electric starter but if used, the recoil can not be removed if the boat is equipped with one. Any prop can be used, a metal one preferred for safety reasons. Replacement of the turn fin is OK. Any radio system or servos as this would give you the option of using a better radio plus the choice of more frequencies. Where the sticking point is right now is the option of removing the rear wing or keeping it on.
Any of your input would help clubs to have a basis to use for in case they decide to host a RTR hydro class.
As other RTR boats start coming out, we can discuss them but right now let's keep it pointed this way.
I did include some mod's that you owners of these boats have done on the other site, things such as opening up the turbine exhaust tube to let hot air escape but what the intent is to keep the boat as true to how it came out of the box as reasonably possible with the exceptions for safety.
If you wanted to put a hot .18 or .21 in them and do serious mods then you'd have to run with the Sport 20's.
OK, how about some input?

007clint

This would be great! If it catches on, I would keep a stock Vegas while working on another to be more competitive in Sport 20 once I gain the driving skills in the slower stock class. Because of the volume of sales and activity on this boat, I am sure that it would be a plus for the development of the sport.

Bruce Frost

If you want to go to the other forum and read what they are talking about this is the web address.

http://www.intlwaters.com/index.php?showtopic=17257


[Edited. Shown now is the direct link to the thread as links to the site in general are not allowed.]

Bruce Frost

Thanks Ron. I didn't know I could not give the actual website out.

piper_chuck

My Feedback: (12)

Yup, it's ok to post a link to a discussion on another forum as long as it is directly on-topic.

Adding to what Ron said, it's not clear at this time whether a new turn fin will or won't be allowed. I've received some PMs from people very high in the organization that indicate the boat should remain stock, including the turn fin. It'll take a while to gather up all the opinions and then begin the process of negotiations. The one thing that is clear is there is a strong desire among nearly everyone that the boats remain as close to stock as possible.

1outlaw

My opionon on this is that the turn fin should be changed for the sake of newbies runnin around with alot of other boats. If you have ever driven one with the stock turn fin you would know why....Can you see a bunch of newbies out there over correcting???...What you would have is alot of flipped boats.....Im OK with no motor and exhaust mods but dont see why we couldnt allow hardware mods...Its low buck...As far as cowling mods im not really sure it makes a speed difference but it does for sure help keep the motor cooler....

piper_chuck

My Feedback: (12)

The concern for allowing any hardware mods is where do they end? If one begins with a $300 boat and then adds a $20 turn fin, $45 rudder, $25 strut, etc, it's not long before the cost is up to $500. So the question becomes how do you decide what is and isn't acceptable? Do you need a board to review each boat and make determinations such as "the turn fin on the Vegas sucks, change it"? This would require constant changes to the class and some method of notifying all of the people running races so they would know exactly what is and isn't ok for each boat.

Note, that I'm still undecided on this issue, perhaps some changes are needed. I'm responding to get people talking about it.

1outlaw

Is it really neccesary to run a modded Rutter???...I dont see where you could gain any type of advantage...The one that comes with the boat is fine...I believe it should be allowed to modify the existing hardware...As in sharpening, polishing and so on...I do believe the turn fin should be allowed...The 30 dollar up grade makes the boat more forgiving...JMO...Why not make it where you can modify any stock part on the boat except motor and exhaust..Meaning you have to work with whats there,no aftermarket parts..That would keep the cost down and allow for some imagination and make things alittle more interesting...

toyotatruckin

Just run them, do what ever to it you want except motor and pipe, they have to be stock..There should be no issue here, some people might be making this bigger than it needs to be...remember to many rules and the new people will not want to mess with it.. The main issue with the racing for the new guy with his RTR, In my opinion is the IMPBA and others like the IMPBA who charge 45 or 50 bucks to run your boat around for 5 or so races get real the new guy doesnt want to waste the money for one race with a RTR!

RTR class, no insurance (impba or other) stock pipe and engine, corse rules apply. That would get more people to show up and race, sign up for IMPBA or other group, buy more boats and make the hobby grow but for just getting your feet wet for a small number of races 50$ is a waste when they can just run at the pond for free..

Bruce Frost

I agree that there are a lot of variables that need to be addressed and I glad I'm not the one addressing those issues. I will say I dont' see the problem adding parts to a RTR boat. If you are going to race the RTR class it should at least be stock motor and pipe. But does that mean you can modify your pipe and motor?
I also agree that if more places do not offer a RTR class then it is worthless for someone to pay a $50 membership fee to be able to run and then pay a fee to race that day. That will deter several people.
I have heard that the 2 main hobby shops in Indy are selling several Miss Vegas Boats. I would love to be able to get all of us together and race if there were some defined rules. We also have the Indy club (membership = 2) to build back up but that is another discussion all together. Why the Indy Hydro Master were in Ohio this year.

BUDMAN27

I want to Know if there are any clubs out there that let us new guys run in the RTR class without NMPBA ? The LoneStar boat club CD e-mailed me and told me that it is the clubs policy to have anyone running a boat at their sight to have MNPBA.

ryan_t888

Are internal engine mods acceptable? Sound like a reasonable way to get new boaters in to the racing scene.

Ryan

toyotatruckin

I dont think any club would let you run at an event with out IMPBA or NMPBA as there is to much liability involved, but as for running for fun at the pond it would be a club to club thing.On the other hand in an event race with a RTR class with no insurance should be made ok, RTR boats are not as big of a risk as the other boats......

Idea! If the RTR guy wants to race his boat in an event with no insurance make him or her have an IMPBA, or other member, be his pit man! That way there is help right at hand if the driver gets in trouble and the insured pit man is the one launching the boat, Its a win, win , Idea Plus its a way to get the non RTR person to get involved with someone new to the game!

piper_chuck

My Feedback: (12)

As stated, the reason membership in a national organization is required is for insurance. While having an insured person would lessen the risk, if the driver messes up, runs ashore and hits someone for example, there's a chance of a lawsuit. Since most clubs promise the pond owner that they will provide insurance, they've violated the agreement. It's an unfortunate consequence of the times that we live in that any activity that creates risk, real or imagined, most likely requires insurance.

BUDMAN27

Sounds good to me. I,m not against IMPBA. I Race Pylon planes and have all the AMA and NMPRA insurance. It,s that I would like to see if Boat racing is for me or not before I pay 50 dollars for IMPBA then 25 dollars for the entry fee. I,m not rich.

piper_chuck

My Feedback: (12)

Many clubs will allow AMA members to race in club races. Your insurance covers you while running boats.

BUDMAN27

Wow piper chuck thats the best news I have had today. If those boys over at the Lone Star boat club let me race with my AMA I will buy you a bear maybe two.

BUDMAN27

I meant beer.

piper_chuck

My Feedback: (12)

Let's make it one of each, beer for me and a bear for my daughter! She likes pandas!

1outlaw

Ok...Reading both sites i can see this can get very tediouse(spelling).....I think the class should be simple..Leaving the race straight RTR no mods may make it boring.....The idea is to get interest and interest takes the will and want to modify..To get every last little bit out of it...This makes it interesting and coming back for more......As far as im concerned make it RTR leave motor and exhaust stock all else is fair game......This will keep interest guaranteed..

Kelly Miller

In a race schedule of all classes I think the RTR should stay as a stock out of the box with no mods to engine or pipe. allow changes to prop rudder and turn fin. and yes I think the fin should be allowed to be removed (Jerry won in wichita with his on, and if it was a real advantage he could have removed it very easy without any cost). we allowed .15 and .18 to run together, a .15 boat won third palce.


In a RTR ONLY race, my vision, was to have a stock, modified and unlimited.

The stock classes being driven by what is being built

.15
.18
.32
gas
electric

hydro
mono

Modified-just that modified .15-mod .18 (which would include putting an .18 in a .15 boat) max .18

Unlimited- Max .21

right now the Vegas seems to be talked about the most but in my vision of RTR only race event we would include as many as possible.


now that is putting it very simple. It was my understanding that RTR was not "catching on" in IMPBA that much and in sight of that, we were told that we could modify the boat requirements as we saw fit. my desire was to see guys race and what we did in wichita last summer "fit" for us and I know for a fact that a lot of guys that had never been a part of racing before had a great time.

Now I definately don't want to rewrite the IMPBA rule book but I just see an opportunity to promote what I feel is a "growth" opportunity.

Liability insurance is a must.



It is better to try and fail rather than not try at all.

Kelly Miller

Sam Miller Racing

Lets all get together this spring in Wichita

HEARTLAND VEGAS INVITATIONAL

red slippers are optional

Ron Olson

My Feedback: (1)

Right now it's a wait and see if Aquacraft is going to chenge the turn fins and flex cable collet. If they did, it should be okay to retrofit these parts on existing boats. This is why I felt that the sanctioning bodies (right now we're only talking about the IMPBA) should look at letting people make minor changes for safety and reliability. They enacted an ABS class but it had never been used. One reason why was because there weren't that many boats that fit into that class, about the only one that I can think of would have been the Kyosho Nitro Viper.
Earlier in the year it was discussed to lower the membership fee for people who would only race a limited amount of races or for people who raced in a beginners type of class.
What we need is a fixed set of rules for a district then go from there to the national level.

BUDMAN27

The CD at Lone Star Boat Club said that he has never herd of the RTR class. Why is that A CD of a club down here in Texas has no ideal what a RTR class is ?

Ron Olson

My Feedback: (1)

Ask him if he's heard of the ABS class, it's in the rulebok.
Right now we're trying to establish a set of rules for next years racing season. This can be a club or district set of rules and trying to lay some groundwork ahead of time. By doing this, and seeing how it goes it could become a new class. People in a RTR class need consistant rules as if one club held the class, the rules should be the same for another event.

Hydro Junkie

Okay, my thoughts on this are from past experience with the 1/8th scale boats:
1) Replace the skid fin with a kick back type assembly
2) Replace the rudder and bracket with a kick back type assembly of comparable size to the stock hardware
3) If the boat came out of the box with a rear wing, it must run with it, but mods to the tails for adjustments would be allowed
4) Props can be replaced with metal ones, but limit the ones used to three or four sizes
5) Except for radio gear and paint, the rest of the boat must be box stock with NO MODIFICATIONS
6) Drivers must have insurance before starting their boat. I know the APBA has single event coverage available for around $10, but I don't know about NAMBA or IMPBA. Maybe have that as part of the registration fee?

My rules 1 and 2 are for safety and damage prevention, but could be optional. It might be a good idea to have some available at the race site for purchase before the race begins so those that are bone stock have the opportunity to upgrade on a first come first serve basis.