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1/2A Size Dumas Boat Club

Old 01-15-2017, 01:11 PM
  #476  
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Originally Posted by Pond Skipper
I have tried the Dumas Short Stuff with a TD .051 and throttle sleeve if you
run a surface drive out the back of the transom and cut down the X427 to 25mm
de-tongue the low end pitch it will keep the engine running up in the 25k range.
With modern rc gear and low weight battery you can expect a lively boat. Mind
your hardware low weight is key. I have a test vid of the TD on a Profi tuned.
If with the pipe you can expect 27k ish on the water.

Published on Aug 3, 2016
Cox TD .050 / Profi Tuned Pipe / 25,193 Static - HQ Prop 4 x 4.5
Static 7.3 oz thrust / .132 hp / 99w / 107.3 mph /
9.3in MRP / 140 deg timing / Pipe set for 25,215 rpm!
thanks for the detailed post, a big help! Yeah, I'm trying to justify purchasing the Profi tuned-pipe. Hobby Club, in Southern Calif, is selling pipe alone for $90.00USD (more than most serious .45 - .90 sized brand-new tuned-pipes). I would be using an original Tatone Cox .049/.051 muffler (as a manifold) to couple/mount the Profi tuned-pipe to the Cox engine. Also does the Profi .8cc engine easily out-perform the Cox Tee Dee .049 or .051? Thanks...........
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Old 01-15-2017, 02:41 PM
  #477  
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The pipe is very well made top notch in shape, weight and finish. Worth every dime, I
own 4 of them and would like two more lol. SpeedDomingo on Ebay lets them go for
65 ea. when in stock. I have bought from him twice. Alberto gets in batches every so
often they sell like hot cakes. If you can't wait then the connection in CA is your best
bet. I have tested to pipe on 5 different engines so far has proved to provide a boost
in performance and goo control. Sound effects and looks are two other perks 110%
cool factor.
The Profi engine would need a exhaust throttle at the stinger or remove the venturi
and use a suitable small carb. The power is 2.4X over a TD easy. TD can be pushed
with a pipe for bit more punch per the vid .132 hp / 99w the norm is 75 to 80w. The TD
is not timed for a pipe yet the gate is open long enough to add a bit of a boost. The pipe acts
like a pump draws in fuel and air through the carb another benefit.


With the right prop loading any engine can perform with shock and awe.

Here an example of a stock TD .049 documented for all to set the bar to.
Thus far there is no other vid that comes close to this performance with
a stock engine in flight. Turn up your volume once it is launched and
listen to the rpm gain when I open up the throttle. 30,492 rpm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bCto2zdGUY Published on May 7, 2016
TD .049 /SPI / Throttle Sleeve Ports Allow SPI function / Prop 4.1 x 4.1N / 30% Nitro
Static 24,790 rpm / 7.4oz thrust / .127hp / 94.74w / 96.2 mph / 6.19oz RTF
Unloaded 30,492 best on Vid 1 / 118.4 mph per prop calc.
Doppler reading has it at 117mph per pass at 1:47mins into the vid.

Micro sized Speed Cobra with a Cox reed engine in retrospect. 4.7x4.7 prop
is too much load 4x4.7 would be better.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDJrftoJoAg

Last edited by Pond Skipper; 01-15-2017 at 03:04 PM.
Old 01-15-2017, 05:39 PM
  #478  
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Uctkam Tuned Pipe is the way to go really.
Thus far produces a 201w at 27.13k rpm loaded down with a air prop.
Should do 31k on the water potential 57.4k with a 1.8P prop.
If at 50 mph the rigger (sponson tip to prop 21.5") will look very fast.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwV4gWP_od4 Published on Jul 23, 2016
Static: 21oz thrust / 77mph / .269hp /201w /27.13k rpm
8.5in at (MRP) Mean Reflective Point / 20% castor / 30% nitro

This data may improve as it blows the pipe off when I go to WOT.
Didn't want to waste a zip tie. No pressure tap should hit around 240w
once everything is set up right.

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Old 01-16-2017, 01:23 AM
  #479  
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169.6g as shown the top is just taped on to check out
engine options / fit. 195.5g with the hatches and sponson tops.

The Radio hatch is huge for IC use the engine bay is doable
for ease of access to the fuel tank / engine. Thinking on going
with .062 wire drive works great with the Picco rigger. May use
1" wide .3mm thick carbon strip for ride pads and carbon plate
on the transom. Has a kick back rudder big plus.

I may go with aluminum tube sections to allow adjustable
sponsons and replaceable booms / sponson in lieu of a
crash. Easy kit build thus far no cutting is a big time saver.


.......

Now that I can grasp the size / weight of the rigger I would
say a TD .09 would be a excellent choice for low weight
nimble speeds on the water and a TD .15 would be the
best low weight option for a big block engine choice. A
TD .051 would work just not going to bust more than 28 mph.
I saved all the wood patterns if a pure 1/2A rigger was to be
generated from the design I would reduce 25 -30%.

A Cox Mark II .15 weighs less than the AP .09
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Last edited by Pond Skipper; 01-18-2017 at 12:45 AM.
Old 01-18-2017, 12:33 AM
  #480  
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Perfect fit for the beams on the engine and threaded
for 3mm x 15mm hex bolts making for easy removal
if need be.

Will tap and thread for nylon bolts / right side mount to the tub
requires a bend down the left side tab just fits for the offset engine.
Mount is steel so the threads should last. Easy retrofit for a off
the shelf product found on ebay.The plans / pics show the stuffing
box exiting the bottom of the tub on the left. Here in America us
folks like counter rotating props!


..............
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Last edited by Pond Skipper; 01-18-2017 at 12:36 AM.
Old 01-25-2017, 12:34 PM
  #481  
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Originally Posted by Pond Skipper
I have tried the Dumas Short Stuff with a TD .051 and throttle sleeve if you
run a surface drive out the back of the transom and cut down the X427 to 25mm
de-tongue the low end pitch it will keep the engine running up in the 25k range.
With modern rc gear and low weight battery you can expect a lively boat. Mind
your hardware low weight is key. I have a test vid of the TD on a Profi tuned.
If with the pipe you can expect 27k ish on the water.
Hello:
So if I were to use a Cox Tee Dee .049/.051, or a Profi .8cc engine, what is a good source for:
1. flywheel
2. engine shaft coupler
3. prop(s)
4. shaft (I know some are using thin-gauge wire? welded to a stub-shaft?)
5. strut
6. rudder assy

Or should I spend money for an original Dumas Hardware Kit (No. 2336) ?

Appreciate your help and insight.



Regards,
Dave
Old 01-25-2017, 01:14 PM
  #482  
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I would not use a Profi engine the crank shaft is too weak I have
broke two so far.

SH 07
CY 06
Fuji 05
Sportwerks .05

All have 4mm shaft and bearings.

You can buy parts of ebay for the hardware

Strut and Rudder here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/282055779355...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Small 1/2A size starter belt here: (should you wish to retrofit a flywheel and no pull start)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/390999327410...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Pull start 1/2A engine here: Drive shaft is 4M x.7 threads
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271090896439...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271090896439...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Note:
Mecoa sells a muffler for this engine one on there web site. Takes 2.5M bolts.
http://www.mecoa.com/fuji/index.htm

Drive line here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/140934636838

Practice props here safe to use carbon / plastic
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2X-Pcs-VXP-1...sAAOSwQTVV8Shm

Once you are ready sharpen up a Beryllium copper
prop such as the Octura X427 as a metal prop you don't want to hit anything
with it while running to avoid damage to the drive line / engine.

Wooden sponson outrigger kit easy build lazer cut.
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/wooden-s...kit-495mm.html

Stainless steel coupler slips past the 4mm threads and locks down on the 5mm shaft of the engine.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/322104613006

Source a 2oz square plastic square tank for fuel.
Engine will run great on 30% nitro / 20% oil.

I have one of these 3ch radio's in the mail bought it
as it has a 10 model boat memory. Of course any 2 channel surface radio will work. 2.4ghz type.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/401119065329...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

You will need a turn fin for the right sponson you can fabricate a small one out of aluminum or buy:
Found it on the Off Shore Elect. site part No. OSE-80042 Called "curved turn fin" a curved leading
edge and bent in about 35 degrees to help grab water in the turns.

Last edited by Pond Skipper; 01-26-2017 at 01:22 PM.
Old 01-26-2017, 11:46 AM
  #483  
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Originally Posted by Pond Skipper
I would not use a Profi engine the crank shaft is too weak I have
broke two so far.

SH 07
CY 06
Fuji 05
Sportwerks .05

All have 4mm shaft and bearings.

You can buy parts of ebay for the hardware

Strut and Rudder here:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/282055779355...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Small 1/2A size starter belt here: (should you wish to retrofit a flywheel and no pull start)
http://www.ebay.com/itm/390999327410...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Pull start 1/2A engine here: Drive shaft is 4M x.7 threads
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271090896439...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Note:
Mecoa sells a muffler for this engine one on there web site. Takes 2.5M bolts.
http://www.mecoa.com/fuji/index.htm

Drive line here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/140934636838

Practice props here safe to use carbon / plastic
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2X-Pcs-VXP-1...sAAOSwQTVV8Shm

Once you are ready sharpen up a Beryllium copper
prop such as the Octura X427 as a metal prop you don't want to hit anything
with it while running to avoid damage to the drive line / engine.

Wooden sponson outrigger kit easy build lazer cut.
https://hobbyking.com/en_us/wooden-s...kit-495mm.html

Stainless steel coupler slips past the 4mm threads and locks down on the 5mm shaft of the engine.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/322104613006

Source a 2oz square plastic square tank for fuel.
Engine will run great on 30% nitro / 20% oil.

I have one of these 3ch radio's in the mail bought it
as it has a 10 model boat memory. Of course any 2 channel surface radio will work. 2.4ghz type.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/401119065329...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

You will need a turn fin for the right sponson you can fabricate a small one out of aluminum or buy:
Found it on the Off Shore Elect. site part No. OSE-80042 Called "curved turn fin" a curved leading
edge and bent in about 35 degrees to help grab water in the turns.
really appreciate all your detailed information you've provided me. Interesting that you mention the Profi crankshaft is not structurally good for model boat use? I'm surprised. But the Tee Dee .049/.051 would function better in this regards?

I have not much knowledge at all of the SH 07, CY 06 or Fuji 05 engines. But I will check them out.


Regards,
Dave
Old 01-26-2017, 01:20 PM
  #484  
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SH 07, CY 06 and the Fuji 05 (Mecoa) engine all have bearings and will last longer and provide more power.

Can't go wrong with this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271090896439?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

SH.07

http://www.ebay.com/itm/151786060166...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Last edited by Pond Skipper; 01-26-2017 at 01:23 PM.
Old 02-13-2017, 01:46 AM
  #485  
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New project in the works SH-.07 / 1.47cc
The tank is custom made to fit the rigger with minimal wasted room.
Holds around 2.3oz good for 15 laps has an internal baffle to trap the
last drop of fuel. This one will be lean for speed with no strut assembly
to weigh down the back end. Venturi has been flared open for a bit more influx.
Bench testing with an air prop shows it can make 186w with a speed prop, if
tested with a sport / thrust prop you would typical calc out more watts.

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Old 02-13-2017, 11:12 AM
  #486  
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Originally Posted by Pond Skipper
New project in the works SH-.07 / 1.47cc
The tank is custom made to fit the rigger with minimal wasted room.
Holds around 2.3oz good for 15 laps has an internal baffle to trap the
last drop of fuel. This one will be lean for speed with no strut assembly
to weigh down the back end. Venturi has been flared open for a bit more influx.
Bench testing with an air prop shows it can make 186w with a speed prop, if
tested with a sport / thrust prop you would typical calc out more watt
very cool design there! You're something else

Once again, which engine is that you're using (I'm confused by "SH .07")? Also, is that a "Walt Barney" custom fuel tank?
Old 02-13-2017, 12:46 PM
  #487  
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Thank you this one is lean and mean meant for the smaller engines. Unlike the other
design which is wide / strong enough to handle a mild .12.

Have you bought from Walt before?

This tank is by:
[email protected] / Stainless Steel Custom Made SS Tanks with internal baffle.
http://www.intlwaters.com/index.php?showuser=22259



Header Pipe here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/400867437615...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

SH- .07 known by thier car names such as Vertigo .07
http://www.hobbypartz.com/07veenfor1ni.html



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Last edited by Pond Skipper; 02-17-2017 at 07:00 AM.
Old 02-23-2017, 08:30 PM
  #488  
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12L14 class steel Flywheels came in the mail custom made from a member on RCG
I put together this drawing he was able to go from there great fit. The small mass will do
wonders on launch, help absorb some of the initial load when going into a sharp turns
and keep the rpm's in check when the prop jumps out of the water.

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Last edited by Pond Skipper; 02-23-2017 at 08:36 PM.
Old 02-27-2017, 12:03 AM
  #489  
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I received 2 custom crank's for the 1/2A Picco .05 as the stock ones are brittle I have broken two so far. Sat. I broke in the engine and found it making 190w of power over a stock TD .049 at 80w

7mm dia. crank vs 8mm and less brittle of course. Takes a 4mm stud bolt. Engines back in the rigger should be able to do a new running vid soon.

....



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVrXBEC3hQI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVrXBEC3hQI Published on Feb 25, 2017
Custom Crank / Picco .0519 ci / .85 cc / APC 4.2x4 / 29,473 rpm
New crank for improved longevity and performance.
165 deg exhaust over stock @ 160 / 4oz break in time results:
Static: 12 oz thrust / 111.3 mph / .227 hp / 170 W

Brief peak needle 30,564 rpm
Static: 13.4 oz thrust / 116 mph / .255 hp / 190.2W
34W improvement over stock crank.

165 deg timing / 9in MRP
30% nitro / 20% oil / AP .09 carb / Profi .8cc Tuned Pipe
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Last edited by Pond Skipper; 02-27-2017 at 12:07 AM.
Old 02-27-2017, 11:32 AM
  #490  
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Originally Posted by Pond Skipper
Have you bought from Walt before?
This tank is by John Steltzer
yes, I have purchased and used Walt Barney's fuel tanks, they are some of the best product. Walt Barney's stainless-steel fuel tanks ("Tanks-2-U") are a standard in the current-day RC model boat niche industry. I run mostly conventional size (NAMBA) class RC race boats (ie. A = .21ci/3.5cc, B = .45ci/7.5cc, C = .65ci/10.5cc, X = .80ci/13.00cc). Consequently I'm using tanks of 25oz, 18.0oz, 13.0oz, etc.,...Walt does beautiful work.

I am familiar with John Steltzer's fuel tank products as well, although I have not (yet) had the opportunity to try one yet. But I plan to aquire one in the near future.

Here are a few examples of Walt Barney (Tanks-2-U) tanks.............
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Old 02-27-2017, 09:04 PM
  #491  
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Those tanks look great!! Do you have any links to your projects?

John will use stainless steel fuel lines and does one more step
he polishes them up to a extreme shine. He uses a baffle to trap the last bit of fuel does Walt?

I installed the new Picco .05 back in the existing rigger with the custom crank and 16.2g steel flywheel.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtynFKMwNy4
Published on Feb 27, 2017
Picco .0519 ci / .85cc Custom Crank 44,573 rpm
Quick top end check after rich break in / heat cycling.
16.2g steel flywheel load test. 30% nitro / 20% castor.
165 deg. timing / Profi .8cc tuned pipe / .062 wire drive.
534.6g dry / Wet 555.6g / 19.59 oz with 2oz fuel.

-I used a OS RP7 med heat plug for the rigger, may have to
go with a #8 cold plug as it really gets hot on 30% nitro. 60%
will help reduce the heat should be ok.

Last edited by Pond Skipper; 02-27-2017 at 09:06 PM.
Old 02-27-2017, 09:30 PM
  #492  
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Originally Posted by Pond Skipper
Those tanks look great!! Do you have any links to your projects?
not yet, I've been working on multiple boat projects for a while now. I'll post some stuff once I get to a certain point of complettion.

Originally Posted by Pond Skipper
John will use stainless steel fuel lines and does one more step
he polishes them up to a extreme shine. He uses a baffle to trap the last bit of fuel does Walt?
are you implying he uses stainless internal fuel lines? I'm not sure exactly how Walt does the internal configuration (I'll ask him)

Originally Posted by Pond Skipper
I installed the new Picco .05 back in the existing rigger with the custom crank and 16.2g steel flywheel
yeah, I was gonna mention, that Picco .052 looks killer! I would love to have one for my 1/2a Dumas Deep Vee. Where is a good supplier for these engines? Where are you obtaining the custom crankshaft?


Published on Feb 27, 2017
Picco .0519 ci / .85cc Custom Crank 44,573 rpm
Quick top end check after rich break in / heat cycling.
16.2g steel flywheel load test. 30% nitro / 20% castor.
165 deg. timing / Profi .8cc tuned pipe / .062 wire drive.
534.6g dry / Wet 555.6g / 19.59 oz with 2oz fuel.
[/QUOTE]
Old 02-27-2017, 10:22 PM
  #493  
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John uses nothing but stainless in the build there is no brass.
I was surprised to see the extra touch done on both tanks I have from him.
Mentioned it as yours show brass. More a visual thing I would imagine,
as nothing will tarnish.

The custom cranks where many months in the making very exclusive the
machinist has no desire to churn them out by the numbers. The Picco .0519
Is the most powerful 1/2A RC engine with a known output of 230w per my
engine test with a 5x4.5 prop which is some load.

Compared to the TD .049 at 80w the P-0 is 2.9 X.
There is a French CNC machinist who does work on boat parts. If I can
get the shared data for the crank perhaps they will make a batch. The
company is making some water cooled heads for the P-0 on a special
request by me and 2 other French guys. One guy is making a twin cat
another is making a rigger. When the cranks start breaking they may
go for a run of replacement cranks. I will PM you if it happens. The
SH-.07 engine is a good work around as the extra displacement allows
more prop pitch in theory should be able to make near the same speeds.
Key things bigger bearings strong axle, bronze bushing on a aluminum rod.
Will handle all the rpm you can get from it.

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Last edited by Pond Skipper; 02-27-2017 at 10:30 PM.
Old 03-06-2017, 12:44 AM
  #494  
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"Fabricated a rudder and bracket the weight came out light was my goal to
reduce weight on the prop. Should be strong enough to handle a 180w engine.
The plastic is carbon reinforced made for 1/4th scale aircraft.
The right had turns will push on the hull minimizing loads on the
the interface".

"The fuel tank takes up all the space and will not allow
water to be accumulated excessively. The nose is completely
encased and water proofed for an air trap with a small section
of ply overhang to retain the front of the tank. The front is very
strong able to impact a water buoy and there is no nose twisting with the carbon boom".

Its skinny but will hold the radio gear and will have a closed off section in the back
in lieu of a flip. This 1/2A rigger is really classified as 1/4A if entered into SAWS for timing.
The 1/2A class is for .12 size boats according to SAWS.

............




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Last edited by Pond Skipper; 03-06-2017 at 01:15 AM.
Old 03-07-2017, 02:21 AM
  #495  
Pond Skipper
 
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"364.7g less sponsons / turn fin, hatch, throttle cable and paint".

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Old 03-09-2017, 09:16 PM
  #496  
crapshooter
 
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thats light. i really like your work Pond Skipper, can,t waite to see more of your set ups etc etc . i would love to build up a rigger like yours but finding a suitable engine and pipe [ with flywheel ] is the issue.
Old 03-10-2017, 12:10 AM
  #497  
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Thank you, you can just widen the tub a bit more to accept a .12, following the
same concept should make for a very fast straight line rigger.

Glen Q. holds the SAWS .12 record at 103 mph you may have seen his rigger its lean with the
a wire drive and no strut. 21 oz less fuel as I recall.


https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...-2A-Tuned-Pipe

More info here and links to engines Scotty made my flywheel based on my specs for the SH .07 which can be found
on ebay. Last page of that thread he comments you can PM him.

scottyp
Frank Rizzo - Rizz...o

Last edited by Pond Skipper; 03-10-2017 at 12:31 AM.
Old 03-16-2017, 09:36 PM
  #498  
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_esXapjdHcA
Published on Mar 16, 2017

SH-.07 / 1.14cc converted car engine. 38,680 rpm static / 30% nitro / 20% oil.
With only a few mins. at a rich idle I leaned it up just enough to stage the engine on the pipe
for a brief rpm check should do about 44k + Needle valve set about 3/4th to 1 turn rich per this vid.
Belt started with the plug a bit loose the smoke was from the fuel still burning off around the plug.
Low end needle setting from the factory was good for a great idle, can go much lower need to adjust
the carb barrel to close down more. Great engine can recommend!
Old 03-16-2017, 11:10 PM
  #499  
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Originally Posted by Pond Skipper
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_esXapjdHcA
Published on Mar 16, 2017

SH-.07 / 1.14cc converted car engine. 38,680 rpm static / 30% nitro / 20% oil.
With only a few mins. at a rich idle I leaned it up just enough to stage the engine on the pipe
for a brief rpm check should do about 44k + Needle valve set about 3/4th to 1 turn rich per this vid.
Belt started with the plug a bit loose the smoke was from the fuel still burning off around the plug.
Low end needle setting from the factory was good for a great idle, can go much lower need to adjust
the carb barrel to close down more. Great engine can recommend!
wow, scary RPM's!
Old 03-17-2017, 02:12 AM
  #500  
crapshooter
 
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WOW thats sounding like an F3D pylon model. love to see it on the water.

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