kamipalms

Howdy all,
Looking at running my Picco .26 max engine in my boat.
The Picco has a slide carb which is no problem to get around, I can fit the marine flywheel and hook up the felxi shaft easily, exhaust is a simple add on and I've modifyed a cooling jacket to fit the Picco head.

Can anyone forsee any problems with doing this?

advanced builder

Just one, size of your hull. Many .12 -15 buggy engines are being put in the .12 Zippkit riggers No water lines needed , just a flywheel. As far as a carb, you got a lot of options,bellcrank ect aftermarket carb

amax

What Size Boat??

Ron Olson

My Feedback: (1)

I've built a lot of .12's using juat air-cooled RC truck engines. You don't need water cooling but you can cut off a lot of those heat sink fins as they can over-cool the engine.
As long as the heat sink can get air, you're good.

toyotatruckin

Yes need a little hull info to help you better, BUT no reason you cant run it, sounds like your on the right track though

kamipalms

Here are the only 2 pics I have at the moment.

Its a 32" deep V mono with a .25 Go engines POS ....






The .25 Go Engine is shot , got a replacement and its no better than the origonal so I'm looking at putting in my spare .26 Picco

DRAGONFIRE81M

I have used a .26 ofna in one of my jet drive boats . i used the go engine cooling jacket just some fin sanding and it fit right on to the button . ill post some pics later in the day of it .

here is the pic i was talking about in this thread http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_37...56/key_/tm.htm its the first post

JWMods

Most of the current .12 to .30ci boat engines are buggy engines. They provide a water head and rotory carb but the
internal specs and sleeve timings are still car/ buggy. Novarossi and they're Top line and RB are about the only ones
that are helping out with useable timings and button volumes that will work in a boat application.

Car & buggy engine application to a boat will require internal engine mods that I mentioned to make them scream
like your mom seeing a mouse. The engines for car/buggy have cooling issues for obvious reasons and they're torque
load is different.

Sleeve timings in a car/buggy engine are usually low and button "bubble" volume is usually too high, along with crank
rotor timings can be anywhere.

Unless these areas are addressed, getting another converted buggy engine could put you back to square one.
The most unpopular, gutless engine can be transformed into a real killer with mods to the areas listed in this post.
Its actually easier to do the engine mods than to, get the right pipe to the right length, right prop, boat trimmed out
correctly and diagnose what the engine / set-up needs to make it better.

kamipalms

so your saying I would be wasting my time installing the Picco without some serious mods?

JWMods

Thats pretty much it,, if the Go engine was mine I would tear it down and and see what parts actually need replacement.
Its always better to mod a new engine than a used one unless the parts are new.

I want to mention they are buying a .21 Go headbutton in Australia, triming it on a lathe to specs that will be used in a
Top .21 boat engine. Thats what has to be done sometimes to avoid making one on a lathe, which takes a few Hours.

JWMods

The Picco could be great! but until its timings and specs are measured, Nobody really knows for sure.

kamipalms

Heres a little history on the .25 Go Engine....... as pictured in my post above

Got my new boat yesterday and spent some time running it in.Turns out just about every screw was loose and blew the rubber exhaust coupler off the headder twice- loose muffler clamp and loose cable ties on the rubber coupling.

Put 1/2 litre of fuel through the boat yesterday running quite rich and it ran very well.

Took the boat out again today to begin tuning and for the life of me it will not start. changed the glow plug -twice, checked for fuel blockages inc. the carb- all clear , both leaned out and richened up the fuel mix nedles adjusted the idle and the best I could get was a good idle but as soon as I applied any throttle the engine dies regardless of the fuel nedle settings. I flattened my glow ignitor twice before giving up for the day. fuel is 25% , first glow plug was the origonal Go-engines, 2nd plug was an OS A5 and 3rd was an OS #7- fuel and plugs were all brand new , un opened and all 3 plugs glow nicely on the ignitor

When it ran this morning with uncontrolable rpm I ran it as rich as I could so I didn't toast it.<o></o>

Just leak tested the engine and the front bearing leaks like a garden sprinkler and the carb leaks at the throttle arm.
I've O rinnged both thefront bearing and throttle arm and she fires straight up. ran half a tank ( hooked up to the garden hose for cooling) and got a good tune with full throttle response.
Took the boatdown the lake (with inwalking distance) for a test run and she ran for a good 2 mins before reverting back to the way it was- nothrottle response, excessivly high idle with the carb set below the idle position ( running lean) then dies. I adjusted the mixingnedles again to richen things up and it won't fire.Leaned things off again and still nothing. Flattened my glow ignitor again trying to get it started.

I've run plenty of nitros over the last few years, OS, Traxxas, Picco andnever had any where the trouble with a nitroengine ( especially a brandnew one) as with this Go- Engine. <o></o>

<o>
</o>

Changed the one way bearing last night. The Go-Engines OWB looks as though all of the chrome plating had come off the needle rollers or the parts that make the bearing one way had come out. Changed the OWB and front bearing with new ones and re assembled.
tried to start it again this morning and were back to square one. Revs uncontrollably with the throttle closed ( still getting too much air form some where)
The only thing I hadn't done was to pressure test the fuel system so I removed all of the radio gear from the boat, plugged the intake and exhaust, clamped the fuel line to the carb, and submerged the whole boat under water, engine and all. I used a length of fuel line to the carb and blew as hard as I could.
not 1 bubble came up.
So that's the final straw for this Go-Engine
4 hours use, $60.00 in parts and now headed for the rubbish bin.<o></o>

Got a another brand new Go-Engine from the people I bought everything from and the this engine lasted 30 seconds before performing the same as described above.
hence the reason for opting to go with the Picco

andybenton

this is one example.

not everyone has the same problems.

kamipalms

yes , this is just one example but the same problem with 2 of the same engines?
Coincidence....

Or cheap Tiawanese knock offs
You be the judge

andybenton

ive had the same (close enough to the same) problems out of magnum aircraft engines, os engines. traxxas engines.

and on one occasion even a losi 427.

my point is, sometimes it happens. sometimes left over case slag gets in the bearings, sometimes its dirty fuel, metal shavings. defective bearings.
if the two motors were from the same batch (production line) it could have some bearing on the issue.

but hey. im not knocking you for not liking the go engines and i dont want to be taken for a guy thats like that.

the only reason i defend them is because ive had the same issues out of other motors.

amax

I'm Not tryin to be a Smart A**,, But reading this I don't see mention of adjusting the Low Speed mixture Needle Located in the Carb Arm. I have seen this issue with the .18's and it will drive you nuts. The Go Engines Do Not like it Lean At ALL,, The LS Needle needs to be at a fairly Rich Setting, rich enough that throttle response is a Little Sluggish when Blipping the throttle. I have also Noticed that the Go Engines take A Lot to Break in Completely and Will Occasionally Run Like Crap Until they are. If you put Any New Nitro engine in a boat and throw it on the pond Without Proper Break In,,, It Might as well be An Anchor.

kamipalms

I didn't want to go into too much detail as it was a long enough read as it was but there was plenty of adjustment on both HSN and LSN to try and get any " normal" responce .
With the Engines I have there was a very small tuning window, within a quater of a turn on both high and low speed needles . any more than quater of a turn and it wouldn't start / run even with increasing or decreasing the idle.

After giving up on the first engine I contacted the people I bought everything from and they said they normally get the same results after around 20 runs and sent over a new replacement engine which only ran for 30 seconds during run in before loosing complete control with excessivly high rpm. After the trouble I had with the first engine I didn't even bother with this one.

JWMods

This can be tough stuff for some people and some engines now days. Even the Novarossi has issues with some of they're internal
specs that need correcting before you go to break-in. Inboards are more difficult due to the launch can bury the prop in the water
and an engine that has less than ideal specs for running correctly will die frequently.

The key is getting a few things in order so the engine will want to run, even when sick rich.
Large button volumes and high headspace setting (like in car/buggy engines) can make life miserable just to get them to run anywhere but the bench.

Water cooling or full sized air cooled heads can make break-in plenty difficult. The idea is to run rich during break-in but the
extra fuel kills ignition and burn with full water going thru the engine. The more water and fuel going thru, the colder everything
gets,, which forces you to lean the needle to get the thing going. What you really want to do is to restrict the artificial cooling
to a point where fuel cooling becomes effective. That trade off allows more fuel to be used which supplies a fair amount of lube
for the new moving parts.

This can be taken to another level where the water is totally off and the only coolant you have is the amount fuel needled in to
get it heated enough but not crazy hot. This is really quite simple once you get your mind around your old way of thinking.
A model engine on the bench can be richened to a point to where it can stop the engine from running,, even at full trigger throttle.
That right there is your new control for break-in,, you can make that engine run nearly any speed you want with the trigger nailed!

And the other good part is that the engine will run once thrown in this way,, an old rule of thumb to remember "is that a lean engine will always try to die, a rich engine will always try to run". Monitor the engine temp after a lap or two and get to where is more than warm with the needle. Lean of course is hotter and the opposite is, you already know. Some engines have taken me two separate outings to get them broke-in. The engine will let you know when its near done. At some point that thing will try to digest and burn all that fuel and will sound much like that "Mars Attacks" movie. You know the Ka Kak! language them little guys had? It will try to link them Kak,Kak"s to a full blown fast forward assault. Its best not to let it do that very far and settle back to a rich low speed needle
setting and go at it again. This can be done over and over again but you'll find you need a slightly leaner setting to go to Kak Kak
land,, monitor the heat every run. (it's important that you have a rich "low speed" needle setting. It gives you someplace to go to
for cool down if it tries to run away on the "high speed" needle)

Once you put the water back on, try to restrict the exit considerably,, all that does is allow you to run a richer needle setting,, and
thats a good thing.