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-   -   Food for thought-Nitro RC boating needs some help (https://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/speed-rc-nitro-boats-117/11674549-food-thought-nitro-rc-boating-needs-some-help.html)

geraghty 01-26-2020 04:33 AM

Food for thought-Nitro RC boating needs some help
Let me preface this by saying Nitro RC boating is suffering from a multitude of maladies....

I am not trying to start a sxxt storm here...."JUST SIMPLE FOOD FOR THOUGHT"...
Nitro racing is declining and it isn't just because of FE and gas availability...
A great part of this decline is just the high cost of equipment and fuel....
The financial investment and experience required to try nitro RC boating just is not conducive to attracting new boaters...
How many of you are tired of paying $450.00 for a Novarossi 3.5 powerhead or $550.00 for a O.S. to race nitro outboards..... Outboards that could be out of production in a heartbeat....
I have been doing this for a long long time I have seen the RC nitro boating community dwindle for a long time now....
Nitro RC boating needs a good shot in the arm at "grassroots club level"....
We saw a bit of a grassroots revival a few years ago with the RTR boats like the Budweiser and Miss Vegas but that market quickly dissolved....
The next step up from RTR into nitro RC boating is a big one if you want to be competitive....
We don't see the young people coming into Nitro to keep the RC nitro hobby healthy.....It is just simple numbers...The more hobbyists that try RC nitro the more we will retain....
When David Hall and I introduced the JAE hydros 13 years ago we knew there was a ton of .12 car motors not being used so we designed a simple to build cheap boat to put those motors back in service .....
The introduction of the JAE gave a big shot in the arm to Nitro RC boating....Using that same approach we decided to try and put the million not being used .28 car motors into Nitro RC boating..
The photos you see here are photos of a prototype of a .28 outboard....If you have a 3.5 tunnel with a K&B , O.S. or Lawless 3.5 lower unit you can put it back into competitive service with a .28 car motor....
There are a bunch of 3.5 tunnels not being used because you have to put a $550.00 motor on the back to be competitive....There are 3-4 for sale on ebay every day...
What you see here is a $39.95 motor mount from Fred Howe @ Lawless Drives.This mount is completely adjustable..... Any .21 or .28 car motor with a SG shaft will fit on this mount....Mount comes with a coupler to the stock flex cables...
This pipe required a minor mod to work but more on that later...fact is it is $15.00....The car pipe [silencer] is from ebay for $15.00.....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/RC-Car-Exhaust-Pipe-Exhaust-Joint-Tubing-for-HSP-HPI-Redcat-1-8-Nitro-Car-U0W6/164021623249?hash=item26307359d1:g:HScAAOSwilNeFE9 z

If you don't have a motor you can get a new one from $75.00 to around a $100.00.....Parts are cheap and plentiful....
All the car .21's and .28's Buggy motors with SG cranks have the same mounting dimensions and platforms....
The motor you see here is a $$99.00 Hobao pull-start ....I put on the roto-start just for convenience..... The carb on this motor is a Novarossi 5 port rotary carb...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-OFNA-HYPER-7-TQ-PRO-Engine-MAC-STAR-TURBO-6-PORT-28-28-EASY-PULL-HOBAO-OH12/142650240243?epid=2256168198&hash=item21369decf3:g :1lcAAOSw9hdaH08L

These motors are not junk....Machining and material is first class...These car motors are tortured by their owners in off road buggys & truggys and they survive and run very well on 25% nitro...

Possible rules if a Club decided to try this...

Class=.28 Outlaw Tunnel

1.Max displacement .28CI

2.No tuned pipes

2.25% nitro max....Race fuel sold by the tank at the pond...

3.Motor claim less carb,pipe and mount..... $100.00.....


Joe Petro 01-26-2020 04:55 PM

Good stuff Rod!
Air cooling makes it that much simpler...

Hydro Junkie 01-27-2020 07:31 PM

Rod, you may have to reduce the size of the fins or it could overcool the engine. I know car/buggy engines are designed to be run under a car body so one of those is made to compensate by having larger fins

geraghty 02-04-2020 05:11 AM

Originally Posted by Joe Petro (Post 12579164)
Good stuff Rod!
Air cooling makes it that much simpler...

Thanks....mounted up ready to test....

kevinsburns 10-05-2020 05:24 AM

I quote: "The financial investment and experience required to try nitro RC boating just is not conducive to attracting new boaters..."
And this is. (I'm not trying to be rude)

OK. Your prices are generic prices. Now let's take a look at a tax and shipping cost that a new boater would incur.

By the time someone buys a lower unit ($250 OS/Lawless) K&B ($90) and the K&B will soon be gone too, and an engine ($100) Tuned pipe ($60) The mount/conversion kit ($100) Collet ($25) we are already at the cost of a new OS without having to beg for ten years for info as to where to get the parts, and we still haven't bought the prop and correct rotary carb (Rossi carb $60) prop ($40).
Now, a new boater trying to build this set up would be lost, because the parts are not on the shelf at the local hobby shop and no one to help. <main reason the hobby is dead. $600 so far, the OS is already cheaper. :)
RC Buggy is huger, even huger than onroad because the hobby stores cater to it. The newbi or person looking to get into rc boats will go to the hobby store and see a very very small offering, ok now they do buy a rtr hydro or something in nitro. Only to find out in a month when something breaks the parts are unattainable.

If you remember back in the day the ABS Hot Shot and K&B was a huge success in getting people into the hobby. $120 for the kit, and 100 for a new outboard, and 60 for a radio, and one could go race it. Simple kit to build at a cheap price that could run with the best hulls. There was another "PTI (I think) that had an ABS tunnel and that was a great boat, just not marketed in hobby shops.
Now a Tunnel costs 400 for just a hull, with no rigging.
The engine is really not the issue, the hull cost is. Most new people are afraid to build a wood kit, and see an empty hull for 300 to 400. Now if there was a 3.5cc tunnel (Non wood) with the rigging for lets say in today cost of living for 250 shipped and an engine for 250 shipped that would be a way to get people interested but hobby shops would have to stock them and the parts to support them.
Even Prather hulls are still available $250 shipped, bare hull in primer, but without the rigging.
It's a complete kit with high quality Dubro and the like parts that will attract the new person at a doable price.
Aquacraft, the fiberglass is so thin they are 2 year hulls, the parts are so cheaply made the screws strip out and such. Whereas a old Dumas kit still runs today 30 years later.

I live in Ohio, I went down to Dayton thinking ok the hobby shop is near a boat club so they should fuel, and parts. Nope nothing, blew my mind. Most don't even know about boats as a hobby because the hobby shops don't stock the stuff. There wasn't even a club flier for someone to read up and get in contact with.

Keeping that in mind when a new boater steps in to start buying the parts, will he/she get the help needed sourcing the parts?

This all being said, I know you try to make boating affordable and simple and you do a great job too.
the issue there is a lot of reasons why boating is dying, not just nitro but the boating (PWR) side, is not just with the boat or cost, some rules could be changed to keep the new boater in the hobby. I said it before, a beginner/intermediate class of racing so someone with subpar skills is not racing against ppl who can run with their eyes closed. A 40 year vet with a slow 3.5cc boat can win against a newbi with a faster 7.5cc boat simply because the vet has 40 years exp piloting a boat.

Remember Al's hobby, sure ya do. They had all the r/c boat stuff and high end optional parts on the shelf even from private vendors. very rare for that today. in Ohio, I can't even walk into a hobby store and walk out with boat fuel, or even 0% for that matter. Let alone find a prop on the shelf.
But at any rate your setup is already a higher cost in general than an OS. Not to you, but your not a new boater, new boaters would have to start from the ground up.

I keep saying it, a class for beginners and intermediate would really help the hobby/sport although it would take time to get established.

But you do have a awesome idea just not that feasible for a new boater.
Perhaps, a Prather class of racing (Tunnel/Offshore Deep V)?
Your boats being top notch kits at an affordable price, some are afraid to build a wood kit, and a hydro is not the easiest boat to trim for the newcomer that is. Prather is just about the cheapest boat to build and easiest to run out there.
There are other ways to get the sport back up to par. Although for a class the 28 buggy engine outboard would be cool. You peaked my attention!!

Palala 02-06-2021 06:20 PM

Does this work I am looking for an alternative for my k&b outboard motors. Doesn't the motor have to turn opposite direction of a nora k&b motor. Where can I get the parts to do this.

Hydro Junkie 02-07-2021 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by Palala (Post 12661902)
Does this work I am looking for an alternative for my k&b outboard motors. Doesn't the motor have to turn opposite direction of a nora k&b motor. Where can I get the parts to do this.

Not with his set up. For the motor to need to be reversed, the output would need to be from the other end of the motor. When you look at a .21 sized outboard, they have a starter cone and carb on the top. The power output comes from the side with the exhaust. Since, in this set up, the carb is on the bottom, there is no need to reverse engine rotation because the drive is spinning the correct way for a right hand turn race course

Ron Olson 02-09-2021 02:10 PM

Sadly Rod I've seen the demise of nitro boating. When my son raced a 3.5 OB tunnel at one district race there were 13 boats entered in that class. The next year they had trouble getting 3. Gas is taking over as you can get a new 26cc Zenoah for under $200.00, less than a .21 nitro engine. Prices have seemed to flip as gas used to be more and nitro engines cheaper. Nitro seems to be about the right tune also as you can fuss with needles settings all day long especially if you really "tip the can" with higher nitro percentages.
I don't know if Fred Howe is still making the Lawless lower units. I haven't seen or heard from him since he used to come to the Hobart races with Joe Petro, the days when you were there also.

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