dmrcflyr2

My Feedback: (43)

I have been building and flying for over 17 years. One rc buddy advised me in my early days to always put the largest engine size RECOMMENDED by the specifications of the manufacturer. I followed this advice, sometimes. Oftentimes I would elect the mid-range of the engine recommendation by the fact that I had the engine to do this. Once I accumlated enough engines and had a better variety I would opt for the upper range.

Never have I powered an airplane as ludicrously as I have read in some of the posts on this forum. Folks putting 90 or 100 sized engines on 60 sized planes irregardless of the wing loading affect. Some one just suggested putting a .75 2 stroke on a very LIGHT 40 sized Uproar?!?!?!? What are these folks thinking?

I have never designed an rc airplane, I have, however built and flown quite a few. NEVER once did I ever think one of my planes was underpowered when using the largest engine recommended by the manufacturer/designer.

Perhaps one reason for this insanity is the 3D craze. For planes to perform these manuevers excessive power is needed, however that should not translate over into sport aircraft. Why put .100 or .120's on a Hog Bipe? It flies beautifully on a 80-90 4-stroke. If you want to 'hang an airplane on its prop', get a plane specifically designed for this, OR fly a helicopter. If hovering is your thing move on to helis. Airplanes are designed for straight flight not hovering.

Or perhaps the folks that believe an airplane is 'underpowered' when using the recommended size engine really do not have the skills to fly that plane. Aircraft designers know what they are talking about especially when it comes to kits from SIG, Great Planes, BTE, etc. Folks that REALLY know how to design an aircraft not just some 'copy cat' company making planes and sticking labels on them.

This forum is a wonderful thing. there are lots of great tips, tricks, knowledge, etc. But along with that there are alot of crazy, irresponsible, and plain stupid things here too. I just hope that the newcomer to the hobby has the support of local hobbiyists to help them in their decisions, because if they were to 'carte blanche' take some of the advice here, they may have a short career in the hobby.

David
AMA 336517

tuwood

Well, i'm relatively new to this hobby and have properly powered a couple planes and have overpowered a couple. The reasons really depended on how I planned to fly the plane.

On my 3D capable planes, I want absolutely all the power I can get because quite simply power equals get out of trouble. I rarely fly above half throttle for anything other than getting out of trouble or the ballistic straight up runs which are just too cool to watch.

If you look at full scale aerobatics, they are doing everything they can to add more power to their planes, but the power to weight ratio just isn't as good as it is for us. If Sean tucker could add 50% more power to his Oracle Challenger with little extra weight I guarantee you he would do it.

I think it's also somewhat analagous to other hobbies we like. Why do people put 500HP engines in cars? Absolutely no need for it, but it sure does make em fast.

dmrcflyr2

My Feedback: (43)

I understand completely. But what about the potential ramifications of such a thing in this hobby? A perfect example of what I am talking about is the thread on the Hangar 9 Corsair and its tendency to have the firewall separate from the fuse. This is a cookie cutter plane with cut-n-paste specifications with a .100 added to the top end. Yes, it is a beautiful aircraft at a great price, I will probably own one. But putting a .100-150 on this is just asking for trouble. Sure you need to reinforce the firewall, because the folks that produce these kits DON'T fly them, and have no real knowledge about them other than 'make these and we pay you'.

Does it take someone getting hurt or worse before anyone will really change their thinking? It is simlar to the younger folks getting the 180 mph sport bikes. Inexperienced pilot just pouring money into their first few planes overpowering them is a recipe for diaster.

What if that .120 powered 4-stroke was suddenly heading your direction faster than you can move?

David
AMA 336517

tuwood

I absolutely agree with you when it comes to overpowering to increase speed. The airframes are not strong enough to handle the increased loads and could cause a serious safety issue.

I know if I flew my 3D profile full throttle level it would come apart at the seams!

Stripes

My Feedback: (19)

Hey Dave,
Plug your word "irregardless" in Google and see what you get.

piper_chuck

My Feedback: (12)

I typically don't overpower planes, but I know many who do. Perhaps one reason they do it is because they can! For most things, we're stuck with little choice. The gas prices have most people reconsidering high power cars. The 180 mph crotch rockets you spoke of are beyond what most people would ever consider trying (but they are fun! ). So, those of us who fly planes have an outlet that we don't get in the rest of our lives. Anyway, just a thought. I need to head out to the shop now to see if I can somehow mate my NIB Tower .75 to an Uproar. Thanks for the idea!

HighPlains

My Feedback: (1)

That would be after he gets it dug out of the smoking hole it crashed in last month.

EscapeFlyer

My Feedback: (1)

Most .60 sized airplanes I've ever seen are rated for.90 sized two strokes.

When I can put a 1.00 sized four stroke in a .90 sized peg, have it weigh less than the .90, and not only have more power, but a much better power to weight ratio, why not do it? The throttle does not need to be pushed wide open. Some of us like the fact that we have that reserve for whatever reason.

I kinda' relate this question to forcing our kids to wear helmets, kneepads, elbow pads,etc.,etc., etc., just to ride there bikes, or scooters. I mean come on, we can't keep accidents from happening all the time. In the real world, people get hurt, people scuff up their knees. With todays protection mentality, it's a wonder anyone survived childhood!!

People need to use common sence when operating any kind of vehicle. If the bigger powerplants are too much for you, by all means, stay away from them. I don't look down at poeple for operating in their comfort zone. That is a good thing. But without pushing some boundaries, we would never have made it to the moon!

This is not a personal attack, but please, don't legislate my choices away, especially when I do not operate my aircraft in a mannor that violates the law, club rules, or AMA requirements.

I don't like pylon racing. Quite frankly, I think it is dangerous. However, I would fight for pylon racers to keep their right to race, because my experience shows me, in spite of dangerous crashes, and people getting hurt, they have always followed the rules, and are generally concerned for spectators and the surroundings, and are enjoying themselves in the process. This can apply to every aspect of the hobby. Why let a few bad apples destroy having a life? Why let fear destroy one's ability to push the boundaries safely as possible, maybe get hurt in the process, learn, and continue to make America the greatest nation on Earth?

I realise I got a tad bit irritated at this subject,, but come on, give me a break! Please don't let fear rule you, and keep us from a life.

SamD

The safety aspect is tricky; I'd don't care to have any plane coming at me (and there have been a couple). That said, an inexperienced flier can probably get themselves in trouble, quicker, with a higher powered plane- I think most of us could agree with that. Unfortunately, as noted, overpowering planes seems to be quite the "rage" these days- while little to no discussion regarding the negative aspects of this seem to be taking place.

The really salient point- I think- is the negative effect(s) putting an oversize engine on a given airframe has; higher wing loading, more vibration (typically), over stressing of the airframe, etc, etc. Make no mistake, I've a few airplanes that are on the upper limit as far as engine size goes but nothing like putting a .100 size engine on a .40-.50 size airframe. It's fun to have a plane or two that pushes the envelope a bit- but it's not something I want to make a habit of.

I've no problem with the current 3D craze and all the stuff that goes along with it; it's not for me (at least not a steady diet) but it's really popular and a lot of people have gotten into the hobby because of it. Like most things, though, interests will change and perhaps in a few years the 3D craze and the overpowering of models will abate somewhat.

red head

I read a lot of these post and the people can't even fix a simple ding / break and they are trying to re engineer the plane !!! I've even gotten to the point that I won't answer some questions. Gad, you'd think they could at least tie their shoes. ENJOY !!! RED

nickj

I agree with David, and I don't think he's looking for any new rules. If someone wants to put a .90 2-stroke in a 40-sized trainer, then go for it. I'm not even that concerned about the safety aspect. Any plane is dangerous in the wrong hands. But some of these planes I see, they look like they could fly without the wings. I think you cheat yourself out of some good flying with an over-powered plane, but that's just me.

Airbike

My Feedback: (6)

I saw a .25 sized warbird that HAD a YS .91 4-stroke in it. WOW, it WAS fast, at least until the motor flew off and went another 100 yards father than the rest of the plane!!


Having enough power is good.
Having more power is better.
Having too much power is just about right!

But seriously, a lot depends on the application. A WWI plane or Piper Cub just wouldn't seem right to be grossly overpowered. A little extra for getting out of stall situations is good, but not to be overdone.

Speed planes will take as much power as you can fit into them. Along with that comes the need for appropriate reinforcing of the airframe.

Throttle is also a proportional channel![X(] I think too many have learned to fly without really learning how to use throttle and rudder.

As for hovering & 3D power, actually it will take more power to fly the advanced/unlimited IMAC sequences than it does for 3D. Also suprisingly, having a lot of power available can allow you to fly slower as you don't have to trade momentum for vertical climb. You can simply add power as needed to continue your upline after an energy draining manuever.


So it really does depend on the situation and how the pilot intends to fly the plane. To me, "overpowering a plane" is when you cannot manage the power for your intended application. Of more concern should be the wingloading. If you can add the power without gaining weight by using a very lightweight engine, then I don't see much downside to that.

Again, I'm assuming competent pilots with some throttle management skills.

dmrcflyr2

My Feedback: (43)

Excellent responses to all except 'Stripes', he is too perfect for me and contributed nothing.

The only reason I started this thread was to get something going in the Sport Flying forum. I also wanted to see how many people looked into this forum. It seems there could be a lot more discussions here.

Sure I was venting and it is interesting to see all of the responses. I am a typical modeler, VERY opinionated. Have you ever met one that was not?

I really think rcuniverse is a wonderful place. We can share our ideas, misfortunes, good deals, etc. Heck I have scored some great deals on engines here in the last 2 months.

Fly on....

David
AMA 336517

SamD

David, I completely agree- getting a discussion started is great and everyone learns a little- no matter how much we agree or disagree with one another. And yeah, I'm opinionated, too...

EscapeFlyer

My Feedback: (1)

dmrcflyr2:

Thank you for letting me rant and being a good sport in allow me to say what I did. Most people would have given it right back to me!

Gremlin Castle

My Feedback: (14)

This sounds like the age old difference between the purist and the hot rodder or finesse versus brute force,or the fly on the wing versus the fly on the prop philosophy.

Some people appreciate finesse in energy management while others are drawn to the thrill of brute force.

The thing that beginners most need to be wary of is any advice that contains some variation of" this is the only way" or "nothing else will work".

Past that if it doesn't endanger others or create havoc, have at it.

dmrcflyr2

My Feedback: (43)

No problem Bipes. I like them too. I have had a Hog Bipe and Smith Miniplane; unfortunately both are past tense.

David
AMA 336517

Dewey2

My Feedback: (24)

Flying circles make kitty scared. Hover planes, helis are no fun to hover. Just bolted a Saito 100 on a 43 inch bipe.

BANJOAIRPLANE

Perhaps one reason they do it is because they can!
People been hotrodding machines of all kinds since the Tmodel Ford come out.However it is not eveyones cup of tea.I personally like having some extra hp when I screw up and need to recover quickly.

Stripes

My Feedback: (19)

Hey, don't pick a fight with me!

dmrcflyr2

My Feedback: (43)

Stripes,

You started it with your response. Besides I don't pick fights with folks ill equipped to defend themselves, or via the internet. I prefer face to face thank you.


Now back to the original discussion...

David
AMA 336517

NM2K

My Feedback: (14)

The fastest way to become jaded in this hobby is to worry about what other people do. Focus on what you are doing. Let others take care of themselves. If it bothers you too much to let go of it, take a break from the hobby. No one will miss you and your over concern for their behavior.

I am a gun enthusiast. It drove me nuts that people would take such a fine instrument and then carelessly use it to create mayhem in society. Ban all guns? No. I love guns. See the dilemma? All I can control is me. As it turns out, that is a full time job.

Your view on powering models is conservative/traditional. Life is not static. With more and more of the work of modeling being done by other folks (ARF builders), the only thing left for the "modeler" to do is to choose the best set of components for what they think will be the best model at the field. Naturally, for a non technical person, choosing a larger engine is big on their list. Most fail to consider power-to-weight, and other such mundane concerns. With the neomodeler, their creativity is in the selection of already existing components.

Eventually, this fad will pass. The ARFs will fall out of favor and maybe - just maybe - kits or scratch building will come back into vogue. But I wouldn't hold my breath.

EscapeFlyer

My Feedback: (1)

If only this would be sooner than later!!

dmrcflyr2

My Feedback: (43)

Artisan,

You are correct, I do have very traditional views on this hobby. One of the reasons I left it for the last four years was the fact that I no longer enjoyed going to the field and flying. This was due to many things, but one reason was the crowd at the field. I personally do not not taking to the air when there are 3-4 other airplanes flying. Throw into the mix some fairly aggressive, unexperienced flyers and I could not risk my planes there anymore. I had seen one to many mid-air crashes and I am quite sure that I could not have remained 'civil' to just having had my plane destroyed by some novice or overly aggressive flyer.

I have since returned to the hobby and have found a fairly nice field with very light usage on Saturday and Sunday, the only days I have to fly. Now when I fly I am the only person in the air at the time, just the way I like it. I am not a particularly social flyer; I do not spend all day at the field chewing the fat. I go, fly and 'get my fix' and leave. being a homeowner, I have many other tasks around the house to do too.

My viewpoint on the hobby has taken a rather strange tact in that respect. I LOVE engines. I could just run engines on the test stand all day. Lately I think the airplane is just an instrument to use to 'exercise' my engines. I love to build airplanes, but my job with being on call 24/7, has pretty much wiped that out. Now I buy ARF's, a very bad word to me 10 years ago, and exercise my engines.

I know, I am strange, but I can accept that.

David
AMA 336517

wildnloose

While you have every right to voice your opinion....it is just your opinion.

Who are you to tell me how I should fly. As long as I fly in a safe and secure manner, and don't break any club/AMA rules, then you don't have any say (or go say it to someone who actually cares). I like to fly all types (3D, speed, pattern, sport). I always try to do it in a safe manner. I keep in constant communication with whomever I fly with. If I want to buzz the runway at high speed, I let the other fliers know, they return the courtesy by staying up high, and the blur of a 150mph plane whipping by them at eye level does not startle them. If I want to do a 100ft loop with my warbird, I let everyone know. If I want to 3D, I let everyone know and I do it at the end of the runway (not in their face). If they want to make a low pass (or land) they yell out and I get out of their way. Common courtesy....sharing the air and looking out for one another makes a pleasant experience for everyone...

Now, in reply to your other statements:
If I want to put a .75 engine in my .40 sized plane.....its my business (none of yours).

If I put a .100 or .120 on my Hog Bipe because I want to hover it....its my business (none of yours). And no, you don't have the right to tell me to go fly helis, its none of your business what I do...I do what I want...

And yes, a lot of people do try to compensate for a lack of flying skills by using larger engines. But its their business, not mine.

And yes, for 3D flying its ideal to have 2:1 power/weight while keeping the wing loading to a minimum. Some people don't know about the wing loading, but you should not keep them from experimenting.

And yes I will agree, RCU is a wonderful place to share ideas.....but you also have to look out for people passing bs around. If you stay here long enough you will be able to figure out if someone knows what they are talking about.

Now, IMO, the good and bad of ARF's is that more people can get into this hobby for less money and time spent. Eventually, people will start making better choices as their skill/knowledge increases. I am now happy to say that I have progressed to that level.

At last....I am sick and tired of people who think their opinion is gospel and they try to push it on to everyone else. They think their way is the right and only way to do things. Thaknfully, everybody is different (can you imagine how boring this world would be in we all thought the same way). Now I'm off my pedestal...