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3D or not 3D that is the question?

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3D or not 3D that is the question?

Old 02-11-2007, 05:50 AM
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Default 3D or not 3D that is the question?

Hi all,
I know I'm probably going to get savaged here but.....

3D LEAVES ME COLD!

It seems today everything is 3D this, or 3D that, I like to see and fly real manouvres just like full size aircraft. Once you've seen one aircraft hover the novelty has gone. I know I must be in a minority these days because nearly every model that isn't scale in the shop is 3D. The sports models seem to be disappearing.
Dave :^)
Old 02-11-2007, 09:10 AM
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Default RE: 3D or not 3D that is the question?

I guess I'm with you on this. It's not so much 3D flying, because some of that takes real skill, and is entertaining to watch, but the mindless fascination with the Hover baffles me. I am sure that a large part of the interest is just to see if it can be done, but in other endeavors, having done it, one moves on. Not so with the Hover. That seems to be an end in itself.
Old 02-11-2007, 11:02 AM
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Default RE: 3D or not 3D that is the question?

Dave,
Why would we give you a hard time abou this. In fact that is part of the reason why this Sport Flying forum was created. We just like to go out and fly, we don't spend mindless hours hanging a plane on a prop. I have nothing against 3D flying at all, because everybody has their own interests. And that's cool.

I like to make a joke that 3D flying is an oxymoron, you know like "Military Intelligence"!!! Why do I say that?? Well, all of the maneuvers in 3D are done in a condition with the wing stalled. And if the wing is stalled it's not flying anymore!!! but that's just me!!

Ken
Old 02-11-2007, 12:35 PM
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Default RE: 3D or not 3D that is the question?

I fly and love 3D.... but I also got involved in IMAC precision flying.... brings a whole different angle into flying.....

Yes... a plane just sitting there hovering is a bit boring....
but a flight with a mix of quaility precision flying with a smattering of 3D thrown in is enjoyable to fly and to watch
Old 02-11-2007, 12:54 PM
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Default RE: 3D or not 3D that is the question?

As someone that enjoys trying 3D on my simulator and with foamies I think I can explain the hover thing to you..

Its a skill that is very satisfying to do well while you are doing it, it is like juggling, or riding a unicycle, there are a million more marketable skills to have, but it is somehow VERY satisfying perfecting it... I think watching someone hover is fairly boring, but it is quite thrilling trying to get both of your hands to work the four channels together correctly ...

I do know one thing, after practicing it alot on my simulator it REALLY helps me regain control of my foamies when I get totally out of shape and the plane does something I didn't expect ........
Old 02-11-2007, 01:31 PM
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Default RE: 3D or not 3D that is the question?

3D is the most boring fad ever to come along in this hobby and I am amazed it has lasted this long. [:'(]
Old 02-11-2007, 03:29 PM
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Default RE: 3D or not 3D that is the question?

I certainly agree that basic rudimentary 3D flying is a real yawner. I'm much more drawn to pattern flying and scale aerobatics. Of course, I've only been flying for a couple of seasons myself, so I imagine I'll think 3D is way more awesome if I can ever figure out how to hover!
Old 02-11-2007, 06:34 PM
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Default RE: 3D or not 3D that is the question?

To each their own. I don't mind the 3-D stuff (aren't I flying in three dimensions as soon as I lift off the ground?). As long as they KEEP IT OFF THE RUNWAY. Go hang around off to one side and don't block the runway! The "pattern" don't accomidate stops in the lane - pull off to the side, please.

There are some fun high-alpha maueuvers, but I can hook the wheels of my plane over a clothes line and save gas as far as the torque roll or nose-high hover is concerned. With some new designs it's about all they are capable of so it's no big deal anyway.

The little flat foamies aren't so bad. Just a engine/motor and battery that might leave a mark when they intersect your approach path. The big 33% numbers are worth trying to slalom.

Wakes 'em up!
Old 02-11-2007, 10:13 PM
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Default RE: 3D or not 3D that is the question?

ORIGINAL: Charlie P.

As long as they KEEP IT OFF THE RUNWAY. Go hang around off to one side and don't block the runway! The "pattern" don't accomidate stops in the lane - pull off to the side, please.
I will second this

I just starting out in this sport and the guys hovering over the runway with there $5000 dollar airplane really gets on my nerves .....hard to do touch and goes with that going on
to me its like parking your beemer in two handycaped spots [>:]
Old 02-11-2007, 10:45 PM
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Default RE: 3D or not 3D that is the question?

I can understand why people have fun doing it, but it is really boring to watch -- like watching somebody play video games. There's no aesthetic to it, and it's got nothing to do with the things that have kept me in the hobby for 45+ years. The worst is when they are loud and the pilot is goosing the throttle. But for the pilots who are into it I'm sure there is pleasure in developing the skills. Jim
Old 02-12-2007, 09:20 AM
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Default RE: 3D or not 3D that is the question?

Of course the real answer is fly what you enjoy.

You're right, kits for us non-3D folks are harder to find. But they're there if you look and there's always scratch building.

That's why I fly a Hots, scratch built. Dirty Birdy, kits are available again. And as soon as I get the covering on it, an Ohio R/C Sukhoi, kit purchased on RCUniverse.



Dave
Old 02-12-2007, 10:45 AM
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Default RE: 3D or not 3D that is the question?

Maybe I would enjoy 3-D more if I were coordinated enough to do it
Old 02-12-2007, 11:45 AM
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Default RE: 3D or not 3D that is the question?

Hi all,
well I've had no hate mail yet! Soooo, I'd better say something more controversial ha ha! Stood at the field I noticed something I hadn't before, those flying 3D were the newer modellers to the hobby, those with the BMW's and Audi's, designer clothes/sunglasses flying ARTF's because they wouldn't know how to build a real model if their life depended on it! It seems the fliers who were "sport flying" were old school "modellers" Anyone else noticed this?
Dave :^)
Old 02-12-2007, 02:09 PM
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Default RE: 3D or not 3D that is the question?

ORIGINAL: MinnFlyer

Maybe I would enjoy 3-D more if I were coordinated enough to do it
Bingo........... I think that most people can't do it well enough to do it so they don't like it. But also too I've noticed that I fly much better than guys that have been flying for many more years than me and haven't taken an interest in 3D. 3D flying pushes me to expand my flying abilities and fly on the edge so consequently I've learned to fly quicker than a lot of the other guys at the field and I'm sure that some have them must be wondering how I've learned to fly so well so fast. But I do agree with those that have said that that there are those that hover right out front and get in the way. But then the heli guys get in the way too and so do the war birds bombing down the runway full blast. Etc. At our field I think we have a pretty good mix of different types of flyers and people seem to be polite about it.
Old 02-12-2007, 04:01 PM
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Default RE: 3D or not 3D that is the question?

i like 3D flying because it is a challenge, in my opinion flying sport or scale is kind of boring. It doesnt get your adrelanine pumping like 3D does. I can fly a cub,trainer,cessna or any other scale/sport model and do my math homework at the same time but when i am flying 3D or racing pylon planes im concentrated on what i am doing and it is giving me a challenge. now please dont bash me i was just defending us 3D'rs. If you havent already tried 3D its fun.

i live for 3D
Old 02-12-2007, 04:53 PM
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Default RE: 3D or not 3D that is the question?

I don't fly 3D but I would give me my left arm to be able to.....wait, if I did that I couldn't 3D let alone fly, never mind. I try to hover and I have planes that can hover, in the right hands of course. When I do get plane to hang for 10 seconds or so I get so charged up my hands are shaking, then I go back to flying circuits.
Old 02-12-2007, 05:01 PM
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Default RE: 3D or not 3D that is the question?

While 3D flying is pretty neat it is just not for me. It definitely has its place in our hobby.

One thing has always bothered me with it though.
Why do they call it 3D flying? Technically any flying is 3D flying if you define 3D is moving in the X Y and Z axis simultaneously.

So using the term 3D flying to describe flying in a stalled wing condition is not correct, as it is not an accurate description of what it is.

It needs a new name perhaps......
Freestyle flying.
High Alpha (Stalled Wing) Flying.

ANYTHING BUT 3D.

Dont even get me started on the so called 4D flying....

Enjoy flying, no matter what you are flying,
Ryan
Old 02-12-2007, 05:07 PM
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Default RE: 3D or not 3D that is the question?

yes that i dont undestand.
Old 02-12-2007, 05:12 PM
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Default RE: 3D or not 3D that is the question?

Hello; I vue 3D as a new challenge. No one at our field has said anything bad about it one way or the other. If you are hogging the landing strip, expect someone to tell you that you're not being considerate of your fellow flyers. We have heli flyers who do that all the time. After 12 years of doing left hand circuits around our patch, we all need something more. We had some glider guys come over to our field for a flight, these guys tie up the strip with their high starts, and are the most inconsiderate bunch we've seen. They expect everybody to land and stay down while they are flying, since our engines sound distracts their concentration. We ran them off. They werent willing to accomodate us, and they're boring to watch.

When I fly 3D (or try to) I usually move to an area of the strip where I'm not on the landing glide path, or in anyone elses way. It has to stay pretty close to see well enough to react properly. No one has complained to me about it yet.
Old 02-12-2007, 05:16 PM
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Default RE: 3D or not 3D that is the question?

I thought 3D was sort of a slang term - "Down Dirty and Dangerous"? Or am I completely wrong there

When done right it can be very graceful. Mix in precision flying with 3D manuevers and you can make the airplanes do some really beautiful things. Most of these are seen in the Tuscon freestyles. If you are against 3D, watch a freestyle competition. Some of it is really awe inspiring and makes you rethink what 3D is.

I have been flying for 2 years now. I was dead set against 3D but that was only because the only 3D I ever saw was someone hovering over the field flying a plane that was so light it hung around like a kite right over the runway. Then, I saw the freestyle competition on the DVD from Wildberry in Tuscon - my next plane was a giant scale Yak and I'm getting better - but I learned to rolling harrier before hover - still don't hover much at all - if any, most flights
Old 02-13-2007, 02:23 AM
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Default RE: 3D or not 3D that is the question?

I guess I should clarify my statement. Hovering an airplane is the most boring fad ever in the hobby. The other maneuvers, such as slowly rolling at high angle of attack flying, etc is actually quite nice. I just get confused with the hovering thing always being referred to as 3D.
Old 02-13-2007, 04:23 AM
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Default RE: 3D or not 3D that is the question?

Hi again,
Adrenalin, hmmm, any of you guys tried, or even seen pylon racing, C/L combat, C/L team race, F3F or dynamic soaring? Probably not, but then again they havn't got the same bragging rights as a rolling harrier! I agree with the comments about Tuscon, I've got the video as it's a bit too far from here to attend in person. The aerobatics are superb, but so are Ali Maschinskys aerobatics. If any of you have seen him fly one of his turbines along the runway 4ft of the ground flat out, pull up into a 1000ft (yes thousand foot) loop to pull out at the same 4ft, now that IS impressive!
Dave :^)
Old 02-13-2007, 07:42 AM
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Default RE: 3D or not 3D that is the question?


ORIGINAL: RhyanO

So using the term 3D flying to describe flying in a stalled wing condition is not correct, as it is not an accurate description of what it is.


[link]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3d_flying[/link]
3D flying is a type of aerobatic maneuver when the plane is past the point of stall in a nose high aircraft attitude and is flying on the air that the prop is providing

[link]http://www.rcpilot.net/articles-what-is-3d-flying.html[/link]
The basic definition most accepted for 3d flying is: flying beyond the stall. This is when the airplane is in a full stall situation using thrust vectoring to maneuver. Thrust vectoring is achieved by the power of the prop wash going over the control surfaces
Ken
Old 02-14-2007, 08:56 AM
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Default RE: 3D or not 3D that is the question?

ORIGINAL: i live for 3D

i like 3D flying because it is a challenge, in my opinion flying sport or scale is kind of boring. It doesnt get your adrelanine pumping like 3D does. I can fly a cub,trainer,cessna or any other scale/sport model and do my math homework at the same time but when i am flying 3D or racing pylon planes im concentrated on what i am doing and it is giving me a challenge. now please dont bash me i was just defending us 3D'rs. If you havent already tried 3D its fun.

i live for 3D
Gee, could you PLEASE teach me how to fly my plain old 33% Waco and not get my adrelanine pumping?. I don't fly 3D for 2 reasons. 1. I'm not talented enough to. 2. I don't have a 3D type plane.
I would never knock someons choise of flying style as long as they do it in a safe manner. This hobby has so much to offer different people. How boring would it be if we all flew the same type of aircrafte??. Belive it or not we all can learn form each other. I'm getting older and my flying skills have hit a point to wich I need help at times. I prefer to have a pilot who is very good at 3D flying stand beside me when I'm takeing my planes on its first flight. They seem to give me a sence of confidance being there for me if I have a problem as they are MUCH QUICKER with their thumbs if I have to hand off the plane to them. And on the other hand these 3D guys often come to me for building or repair ideas if they have some issues. So it works for me.
Old 02-14-2007, 11:40 AM
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Default RE: 3D or not 3D that is the question?

ORIGINAL: rclement

I think that most people can't do it well enough to do it so they don't like it.

But also too I've noticed that I fly much better than guys that have been flying for many more years than me and haven't taken an interest in 3D.

3D flying pushes me to expand my flying abilities and fly on the edge so consequently I've learned to fly quicker than a lot of the other guys at the field and I'm sure that some have them must be wondering how I've learned to fly so well so fast.
Ok, before you 3-D guys get too full of yourselves, let me tell you what *I* have noticed about 3-D fliers...

Sure, you can hover and harrier and blender and the like, but can you do a loop? I don't mean flop the plane nose over tail, I mean a nice ROUND loop - no slowing down going up and no speeding up coming down.

Now, can you do 3 consecutive loops one right on top of the last?

I have noticed that many 3-D fliers can flip-flop their planes all over the place and "Wow" the crowds, but they have never mastered the basic art of FLYING a plane

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