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T-Rex 450 SE or MX400 Pro

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T-Rex 450 SE or MX400 Pro

Old 12-04-2005, 11:30 PM
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Default T-Rex 450 SE or MX400 Pro

Was involved in RC planes multi,multi, years ago, and about 5 years ago got interested in Heli's, and built a Piccolo---A total disaster with which I managed dozens of totally uncontrolled barely seconds long "flights" all over the living room floor.

I find myself totally addicted to Heli's, and 2 Wks ago bought an E-Flite Blade--- After 3 sets of rotor blades, 2 main shafts, 1 tail motor & tail rotor, I'm finally "getting it". Can maintain a fairly respectable hover for 30 or so seconds before I feel I'm losing control, but for the last 3 days have had no problem safely landing the bird when in "trouble"-- I'm sure the next disasters in the learning curve will occur with "real" flying & 3-D practice weeks or months from now. It's a great bird, easy to set up and fly (now), and I'd like to move on.

From what I've seen, the MX400 Pro or T-Rex SE are my next machine of choice. I really want an eCCPM unit like the T-Rex, and haven't been able to get any details re the soon to appear MX400 Pro. My excellent Local Hobby Shop is pushing the MX 400, (they don't carry the T-Rex), and although the T-Rex is significantly more expensive than the Mx 400, my problem is--Which is the better Bird?? I'm really looking for a well manored heli for sport flying-- though I'll advance maneuvering as my confidence increases. The past 2 weeks have been most gratifying re my flying.

Would appreciate any expert advise--

Thanks--- Lloyd
Old 12-04-2005, 11:45 PM
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Default RE: T-Rex 450 SE or MX400 Pro

the Trex 450SE is superior to the x400 (mx400).

the x400 Approaches the trex 450XL but not quite. still flies well out of the box and is much cheaper. if you get an x400 and advance beyond it's capabilities just spend like $30 to upgrade to a OEM trex XL head and it will fly like a trex XL. If you buy the metal head set it will be like the trex SE. the x400 and trex interchange almost all parts except for frame and gears.

the x400 pro isnt much different than the standard x400 other than a metal tail case that actually kind of sucks. i dont trust the things it is bundled with either.
the only ARK upgrades that help the x400 greatly are the metal head and ccpm conversion.

it's like this order
the 450x kinda sucks. the x400 is probably the most cost effective micro trainer. the XL is ready for 3d out of the box. the SE is even more hardcore than the XL plus it looks better and has all the bling, but at a great price. capability wise, there's not much more that the SE can do over the XL unless were talkin extremes.

trex 450x x400pro/x400 trex 450xl trex 450SE
Old 12-05-2005, 12:22 AM
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Default RE: T-Rex 450 SE or MX400 Pro

Thanks for the info -- I assume from what you said, the Mx 400 Pro does NOT have an eCCPM swashplate.

Old 12-05-2005, 03:08 AM
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Default RE: T-Rex 450 SE or MX400 Pro

As far as i know, the ark x-400 pro will not have ccpm, take a look at there homepage: [link=http://www.lichann.com.tw/]ARK Taiwan[/link]
But here i europe there had been ads. with an ccpm pro version. You can easily and cheap rebuilt it as a ccpm version yourself, and, imho, it is a great flyer out of the box, and much more durable than the t-rex - t-rex-xl, mainly because of the aluminium frame on the x-400.[8D]

Kr
Michael
Old 12-05-2005, 09:14 AM
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Default RE: T-Rex 450 SE or MX400 Pro

i bought two Dragonfly 36 and two Ark X-400.
The Dragonfly is even better than the X-400. No idea why there is so much hype about the X-400. The metal frame is nice, but that's it.
Old 12-05-2005, 09:18 AM
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Default RE: T-Rex 450 SE or MX400 Pro


ORIGINAL: Razorblade_DK

great flyer out of the box, and much more durable than the t-rex - t-rex-xl, mainly because of the aluminium frame on the x-400.[8D]

Kr
Michael
do you plan on crashing more or flying more??....that would make it a simple choice!....
Old 12-05-2005, 10:47 AM
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Default RE: T-Rex 450 SE or MX400 Pro

the hype is because it flies very well out of the box (when setup properly) and is half the price of an XL. it can be repaired with both ARK and trex parts. if later down the road you want to move beyond the x400's less aggressive cyclic and collective, it can be swapped for a XL or SE head.

as for the t/r not looking like a #36's, the x400 flies perfectly fine in stock form. i dont like the non-CCPM form of the x400 - it is very sloppy in the cyclic, but it still flies okay even though...CCPM is much better.

the sectioned metal frame is nice for repairs. you dont have to buy a whole new frame to fix a crash only sections. the frame is tough. i got swash separation at 25feet (high as a street lamp or traffic signal post) in FFF and planted into a concrete curb. only frame damage was that the battery tray was bent and i just bent it back. wrecked the head and maingear of course, but that's expected.

ORIGINAL: i01231

i bought two Dragonfly 36 and two Ark X-400.
The Dragonfly is even better than the X-400. No idea why there is so much hype about the X-400. The metal frame is nice, but that's it.
Old 12-05-2005, 10:54 AM
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Default RE: T-Rex 450 SE or MX400 Pro

I have the MX400 and one of my friends has the T-rex....if you can get a T-rex, that would be the best choice....if you get the CDE version.
Think of the MX400 as a Porsche, and the T-rex as a Ferrari.....same class auto, but ones got that little extra.

One more thing....

You need to get very proficient at flying the Blade before you step up to a Trex. You should be able to hover tail in with the blade, but also do forward flight, nose in hovering, side in hovering. If you havent mastered these yet with the Blade....your not ready for moving up yet.
The Trex is EXTREMELY agile. Just breathing on the sticks will make the heli move. If you dump the Blade your most likely just replacing parts. If you dump a Trex, your going to be ducking flying rotor blades.
Old 12-05-2005, 02:59 PM
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Default RE: T-Rex 450 SE or MX400 Pro

To all of you who have offered helpful responses to my question, I sincerely thank you. Frankly I was leaning toward the T-Rex, but n reality, doubt if I need it's total capabilities (& significantly higher cost) at this point in my Novice state,. The beauty of the Blade has been that my LHS(Local Hobby Shop) is 10 minutes from my home, Has a full line of replacement parts, and the most it ever took was about 20 min to replace the rotor blades, drive shaft & gear, and fully re-set the bird to fly again. They don't stock parts for either the T-Rex or MX400. My hovering is even better today, but it'll be a while before I really get that total confidence of "full control". will probably consider the MX400 Pro for the moment, possibly with the CCPM conversion kit to satisfy my technical needs. I know it'll see plenty of crashes (the better we think we are the more 'risk' we take).

Though a Novice to Heli flying, am very well versed in Electronics, Computers,& Aircraft Modeling, and if I can be of any help in the future please let me know.

Lloyd
Old 12-05-2005, 04:21 PM
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Default RE: T-Rex 450 SE or MX400 Pro

How about making a 30A ESC with governor for $20

In the words of the Cajun guy on Waterboy.....Commmmmon, Yuuuu kaannnn duuuu eeeeeeet.

Jusk kiddin'...good luck with your Trex or MX400
Old 12-05-2005, 06:50 PM
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Default RE: T-Rex 450 SE or MX400 Pro

The aluminum frame on the MX400 / X400 is actually a bad feature.

Aluminum frames tend to distort or bend after a crash, causing alignment
and vibration problems. I've run aluminum frames ( 6061 T6 ) on nitro
helis and had nothing but headaches after a crash. Total disassembly and
frame replacement becomes the only solution.

Composite or carbon frames are the only way to go.

Old 12-07-2005, 09:43 AM
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Default RE: T-Rex 450 SE or MX400 Pro

That's your opinion, but my maid's t-rex xl ccpm had broken chassies parts severel times, due to hard landings, and i have not replaced any alu parts yet, even though this is my first heli ever, and i had alot of hard landings.
Some like the mother, I'll take the daugther

kr
Michael
Old 12-25-2005, 12:34 AM
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Default RE: T-Rex 450 SE or MX400 Pro

I have not had any experience with the T-rex. I have flown my MX400 several hours. Like any heli it has both good and bad features. I am definetly not a fan of aluminum frames on the bigger nitro helis. I have had one bad crash with my MX400 with minimal damage and none to the frame. I was inverted, fairly high, the pinion gear came of the motor and it fell very hard. There has been some discussion about the T-rex being somewhat quicker. I feel that it must be mostly setup. My mx 400 is as quick as I need it and the only reason you would need more would be if you might possibly want to tie a knot in the tail boom. About CCPM (Collective Cyclic Pitch Mixing) I personally see little use for it on these small helis. You already have mechanical CCPM and it is much easier to set up and easier to maintain. I have flown both on the nitro helis and see little difference. I have never used it on my machines. The "little" difference is OK if you are flying in the Nats or some other big contest. It is really tough to get 3 servos(that I can afford) to work evenly enough to make everything function as it should. Much easier with the mCCPM. Having said all this, if I have a really bad crashand have to replace much of the head and upper frame I will probably set it up CCPM just to see how it works. All this is just my personal opinion and would be happy to hear other opinions.
Old 12-25-2005, 01:57 AM
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Default RE: T-Rex 450 SE or MX400 Pro

I have a MX400 pro kit and it does not have CCPM. It is mechanical just like the MX400. It has a metal swashplate, metal tail rotor gearbox, the same plastic center hub and maybe a few bearings. The difference in cost is mostly the motor and speed control that comes with it. I really haven't checked it closely like I will after my wife runs out of Christmas things to do.
Old 12-25-2005, 02:08 AM
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Default RE: T-Rex 450 SE or MX400 Pro

To AWS23 - thanks for you experience & opinion. I'm really off the wall trying to make a decision-- Perhaps moving too fast. Just this past week, after 4 weeks of flying(HAH) my blade, suddenly the reality hit, the coordination, hit, and yesterday & today find myself1-3 minutes at a time with "No sweat", but much concentratiin, EASILY hovering the bird in my 16 X 16 ft garage, holding it in a 2 square foot area for 1-3 minu6tes steady,It's gone thru 5 major rebuilds with several replscements of everything except the Servos & bearing. Got a set of Carbon Symmetrical blades for it and she's like a sweet lady trying to please----I'm happy as a pig in ---=as things are moving bear=utifully skillfully. Next usual step is to realize the blade is so "primitive" -- must move up to sophication (T-REX SE) And beat it to death because I'm no where near the skill it'll take to handle it. Funny tging is that th blade really flies well now (Or are my skills honing up-or both, If I hit a wall, It's easily fixed, trimmed, and flyimg perfectly with 2 hours, aslittle or no time, Effort, or cost. I've researched th T Rex SE and though costly, looks like m y dream machine.(I welcome all commen ts) A expert in mechanicc,aeronautics electronics. I'm a very sharp retired cardiologist who's been involfed in RC fix3ed wing for 40 years, and really new to helis.As least noy I that the blade, place it on thfroor- Check ir out. start thr Xmittiter,pruginthereceiver andhave a very wekk==ll cintrollked flighy without a 5thought of a less thast idesl outcoe If I start the Trex I think thr POOP IS ABOUT TO REALLY HIT==BUT HOW ELSE DO YOULEARN?????????????
Old 12-25-2005, 02:20 AM
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Default RE: T-Rex 450 SE or MX400 Pro

Aluminum frame = bad, carbon frames = good.

Seriously, one bad landing with aluminum and you bend it, it will never be straight again. I'm building my 7th Rex right now and have all of the various after market frames, they are ALL made of carbon for a reason. There is not one single aftermarket aluminum frame.
Old 12-25-2005, 02:59 AM
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Default RE: T-Rex 450 SE or MX400 Pro

To hdoc, I think you are making the right moves to master these little beasts. On another thread I discussed the eflite blade as a training heli. I personally think it is a really good way to go. You will find that the number of crashes you have will be directly related to how fast you try new things. The blade will take a ton of punishment and the parts are not costly and the blade is very reasonably priced to start with. The next step up you will find to be quite a large step. I don't think you will go wrong with either the T-rex or the MX 400. I have helped many people learn to set up and fly their heli. When they ask about what to buy I always say whatever people in your area fly. These fellows are usually ready to help and are more at ease with something they are familiar with. A simulater is really a big help also. It will save you many times the cost of the sim. I have flown helis since sometime in the late 70s and I still enjoy the sim flying. Another thing I stress is to use a traing gear. Some of these fellows are talking about way to many bad crashes. If you have your heli set up well (this ready to fly out of the box is exaggerated a bit) use training gear and learn to hover a few inches high at a time you should not have many crashes and they will be crashes with little damage. Remember it is much harder to hover from an inch high to about two ft. because of ground effect. Spend time at this height and you will be amazed at how things come together and how much easier it is to hover higher up. Unfortunately, you have to move through this area twice with each flight. Also learn to hover nose-in before you take your training gear off. This is a hard thing to learn but it saves tons of repair money as you move on to flying around and doing aerobatics.
Old 12-25-2005, 03:10 AM
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Default RE: T-Rex 450 SE or MX400 Pro

I was discussing the MX400pro and mentioned it might have a few bearings. I meant to say a few more bearings. The MX400 has , I think, around 20 bearings. TheX I agree with you about the aluminum sideframes. I about choked when I saw this. As I mentioned, I had one bad mishap and they held well. If I bend anything it will not be replaced with aluminum--------
Old 12-25-2005, 11:59 AM
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Default RE: T-Rex 450 SE or MX400 Pro

In the electric heli threads that I have read I haven't seen any opinions on expotential. In my opinion the capability of setting expo around center stick is second only to the development of the gyro for smooth heli flying. Most of the heli radios have this function. Anytime a heli is so sensitive that breathing on the sticks make it leap about it is a heli that is impossible to fly smoothly. Maybe some can manage but to me it takes the fun out of flying. I use 3 different flying modes and use expo in all of them. Idle up 1 I use 70%expo, idle-up 2 about 50% and idle up 3 30%. This varies with every pilot. I fly with my thumbs and can use more expo. Once in a great while I get teased about still flying with thumbs. My retort is that the Japanese almost without exception fly thumbs and we all know how clumsily they fly---???? I think if you try this feature you will be pleasantly surprised.
Old 12-25-2005, 07:29 PM
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Default RE: T-Rex 450 SE or MX400 Pro

Having read this thread, I am considering getting a TREX 450XL CPE as my first heli.
I have a Hitec Eclipse 7 radio.
If I were to use the sim a lot and dial in mild expo initially, wouldn't the stability and inherent better design of the TREX better a better option than the Blade CP or CX.
I really want to buy something good to start with and then expand from there.
What are your thoughts?
Old 12-25-2005, 07:51 PM
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Default RE: T-Rex 450 SE or MX400 Pro

Any of the double main blade helis will not teach you anything about flying a true heli. If you use training gear, be patient with your traning taking it a step at a time you will do fine. A big asset is to have someone help with the setup. You can do it you take your time. The manuals are not much help. There does not seem to be a good pitch gauge available at this time for these small blades. The MX400 has a pitch gauge of sorts that you cut out that will get you started. Set a maximum of 8 degrees positive and a couple degrees negative.This gives a good head speed.
Old 12-25-2005, 10:05 PM
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Default RE: T-Rex 450 SE or MX400 Pro

To:AWS23 (? Al) --and others)

Thanks for the several replies. Boy, I must have been half asleep when I wrote my last post as the last half was totally unintelligible!! Re the Blade--It's an outstanding learning machine and yes, even in a total disaster is reparable in from 20 Min to 2 Hours at very low cost. Then,takes literally 2 Min to eyeball the Hiller blade alignment, and track the Rotor blades. I mentioned I bought a pair of Carbon Symmetrical blades for the "Blade", and I can't believe the improvement in performance. And yes, Al, as you feel your oats you take more chances--ie: Crashes-- Will consider a Sim but I've been told that since a crash is really non existant re repair, emotionally, you really don't develop you flying skills as well--Correct me if I'm wrong. And I've found that hovering about the 4-5 Foot level seems to be the most stable. I'm OK Tail & Side in--Not head in yet. At least I've learned NOT to cut the throttle when in trouble as I did with Fixed Wing-- Sure cut down on the disasterous "landings".

To Zagibond -- Don't even think of the T-Rex as a FIRST Heli--Not even the Mx 400--- Even my LHS who would have made considerably more money on either of them advised the Blade as my first--And am totally pleased with the choice. Unless you have lots of experienced Heli guys to help you learn to fly. I'm doing it myself (and with the 'Net') and slowly, but solidly getting there.

Lloyd
Old 12-26-2005, 02:32 AM
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Default RE: T-Rex 450 SE or MX400 Pro

To hdoc, there is probably some truth in your thoughts on the sim. It works different for some than others. While the crash is not as upsetting on the sim as in real flying it is still a great training tool. I use the radio I fly with and have the sim heli set up as near my Raptor 50 as I can. You can get real close. I try to avoid crashes on the sim just as I would flying for real. It is also great for flying this time of the year. It helped me a great deal on nose in hovering, flying inverted. I have trained many fellows to fly planes and I think the sim is great for planes also. The greatest thing for planes is the buddy box but it is useless for heli training so I think the sim takes over a bit for heli training.
Old 12-27-2005, 01:06 AM
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Default RE: T-Rex 450 SE or MX400 Pro

zagibond, You are right in your thinking. I will try to explain why. The Blade Cp is, I think, a great 1st heli in that it is low priced to begin with and the parts are reasonable. It is also very durable. The downside is that if you decide to quit helis or move on to a T-rex you have nothing that is of any use to you. The radio will not work with anything else, the motor is useless. Your only way out which is usually easy to do is sell it to a beginner. That is how I got mine and I enjoyed it till I got my MX400. I am not a beginner but I just wanted to play with small electrics. If you are a beginner and are fairly certain you are going to persue this thing to the end I feel that you would be as well off to forget the Blade and go on to a Trex or a MX400. If you do this and decide to quit helis and your heli is junk you can use any of the parts on planes except the gyro. You can get rid of the gyro easily---just email me and I'll buy it. The TX, servos, RX, motor, speed control can all be used in planes and can be easily be sold (again email me) or used yourself. As far as starting out with a Trex or MX400 it isn't any different than we have done for years with the nitro machines, costly all the way. high priced to start with and expensive repairs. The trex or 400 are somewhat cheaper than the nitro machines. Just be more careful in your early learning. As I have said in another post, use a sim, use training gear and learn each step before moving on and put in some expo. Today I did something with my 400 that I have never done with a nitro machine. I use the different flight modes for different types of flying but I had never set up a dual rate. Today I put in a 60% dual rate in idle up 1 and I was amazed. It was cold but calm out this evening and I could not believe how docile it was yet very controllable. It would almost hover hands off and I think with carbon fiber blades it would do that. I feel that set up this way and fly in calm air it would be as good a trainer as any heli. Still, go ahead with the Blade if you want. These are just some of my thoughts, I sure would not want to steer someone the wrong way. I would welcome any comments and or criticism. I suspect this is a decision a lot of people are dealing with.
Old 12-27-2005, 01:24 AM
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Default RE: T-Rex 450 SE or MX400 Pro

You bring up some good points. I have been flying RC for 30 years or longer but always planes. Scale planes mostely. Heli's have intrigued me for a long time and now with the low cost electrics they seem tempting. But.. Will Buying the Blade CP or similar product may leave me wanting for better in the not too distant future? And having spent my $200+ bucks will I have to sell it for less than 1/2 that amount in a few months, probably. Im considering a T-Rex or similar, bite the bullet, spend the money and have something that I wont soon tire of.. Just some thoughts here.

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