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Mid stick Idle UP throttle and mid stick normal mode throttle...

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Mid stick Idle UP throttle and mid stick normal mode throttle...

Old 11-02-2008, 05:03 PM
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Default Mid stick Idle UP throttle and mid stick normal mode throttle...

Mid stick Idle UP throttle and mid stick normal mode throttle...

OK... I'm going to go back and re view Finless Bob's video's...

I disconnected the batter to the motor and I have it set up that in normal mode...

At center stick throttle...

The pitch is the same in Idle Up mode and Normal Mode...
This pitch is slightly positive as I am a custom to flying in normal mode.
And when I fly in normal mode I just start to get to hover with this pitch at center stick.
And I push the throttle MORE (just a bit) in normal mode I am flying.

So basically I am flying just at center stick throttle.

The reason why I am discussion this is because I am trying to go from Normal Mode to Idle UP.
Fist time.

If in Normal Mode... I am at 80% throttle at mid stick...
In Idle Up mode at mid stick throttle what should be my %.. so that it matches
the same 80% throttle Normal...
ie: Mid stick Normal Mode throttle matches mid stick Idle Up mode throttle.

I see numbers all over the place on how to set it up... but obviously... spinning the bird up
to test the throttle is a bit dfferent than testing the pitch without the motor attached.
I have been flying Walkera 22e for a year now... and the 450 for a few months.
So I'm not brain dead to the situation...

Other than the "tech" input I can put the heli on the bench without the blades attached
and make my adjustments that way. I have been flying seat of the pants now for a while...

But I'd like to get the 450 set up so I learn to fly the "way" tech way it is supposed to fly.
And fly Idle Up mode so that it doesn't give me any surprises when I first flip the switch.

Bottom line... mid stick 80% Throttle or so Normal Mode...
Mid Stick Idle Up mode percentage???
I have a five point Futabae.

Thanks group.
Old 11-02-2008, 05:36 PM
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Default RE: Mid stick Idle UP throttle and mid stick normal mode throttle...

Some use a "V" curve on their idle up settings. Something like 100, 95, 90, 95, 100. Others (myself included) just use a flat curve in idle up. My throttle curve in normal is 0, 25, 60, 90, 100. Throttle curve in idle 1 is 90% straight across and 100% in idle 2. My pitch curve is set up for 3/4 stick hover so I'm at about 90% throttle in hover. If I switch to idle up in a hover headspeed doesn't really change much if any at all and if your pitch curves are all the same at midstick and above you shouldn't get any jumping up or very little when you hit idle up. If you plan on doing 3d in the future or anything inverted you should set up your pitch curves for it now. If you set your midstick posistion to 0% with equall amounts of negative and positive pitch on either side of center you will get hover at 3/4 stick and no surprises when you switch to idle up.
Old 11-02-2008, 05:47 PM
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Default RE: Mid stick Idle UP throttle and mid stick normal mode throttle...

And of course, if you run a Castle Creations ESC, you can set your desired HS. [sm=idea.gif]
Old 11-02-2008, 05:51 PM
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Default RE: Mid stick Idle UP throttle and mid stick normal mode throttle...

Rob,
Do you have your speed controller set for soft start?
If yes, you can have the stick at low position in normal mode, which I assume will give you -0- throttle.
With soft start, with the motor dead and blades stopped, you can flip it right in to an idle up and the
throttle will come in gradually. Gradual enough that you can tell what it's going to do without hammering
the blade/tail system. You can then give it collective stick to rise in to a hover or if you don't like what
you're seeing flip the switch back to normal and close the throttle.
Try it with idle up set to gentle curve to convince yourself it will work.
Be sure you have the soft start programmed in to the speed controller. Bob covers all this in his videos as well.
Good luck!
JLK
Old 11-02-2008, 06:29 PM
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Default RE: Mid stick Idle UP throttle and mid stick normal mode throttle...

Well I am a bit of a noobie to make that adjusment on the BEC or ESC
speed controller as it were....

I have done tons of reading on the situation... trying to do my homework as it
"were"....

My Speed Controller is sealed up on a plastic wrap... RTF model with the speed
controller.

I finally got a pitch gauge to measure proper.... been flying no problem without it...

Got the basics dialed in... ie enough to not screw me over when I do get it properly
dialed in for flight.

I lift off center stick at about 80% throttle in normal mode... fly around hover no problems...
make circuits in the air.. etc etc etc... nothing exotic.

I understand what you are saying about setting the controller to soft start but I don't want
to mess around with it as it is sealed in plastic wrap... I guess it's an el'cheapo...

I don't see why I can't synchronize it all from the TX... and I will...
I'll take the blades off and spin it around (I have a very secure workbench) to bolt the bird down.
And work from there... and then get the %'es to make sense in my brain and the TX.

AND ANOTHER thought (I'm not shouting boyzs and galzs) )(where are the women heli's anyways...!!!!)

Pitch Gauge... ok... got my first one.. and well I am darn good at squaring up a Lancaster County Amish
old Fashion Barn Rasing... aligning up two elephants row to row for a river crossing...

But... I see you guys talking about 9.5 to 10 percent or this and that on the pitch gauge on or other
minor adjustments... I haven't seen a pitch gauge that does this...
I have, just this week, an Align pitch gauge... and seems as good as it gets...
But... like... we... you'all... we are just eye balling it in just as the old boys
at Punkin Chunkin.... ( www.punkinchunkin.net ) are shooting Pumpkins near a mile.

I do have a laser level... and I can match it too a pumpkin out of cannon at the speed of sound...

But I don't think most of y'all are doing that and just eyeballing the level of the flybar to the
pitch gauge a few inches off the plane of the gauge to get exacting measurements.
Old 11-02-2008, 06:38 PM
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Default RE: Mid stick Idle UP throttle and mid stick normal mode throttle...

Rob, if you have a T-Rex 450 that came with the speed controller you program the controller with the Tx stick.
The process is not difficult and is explained in the construction manual.
Here is the link to Finless Bob's video how to do it.
http://video.helifreak.com/?subpath=...=esc_setup.wmv
You don't have to take the controller out of it's heat shrink. You do it with the transmitter.
It's not hard to do.
JLK
Old 11-03-2008, 11:22 AM
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Default RE: Mid stick Idle UP throttle and mid stick normal mode throttle...

Thanks for your help, I appreciate it as a noobie.. I try to find some answers on my
own before I start posting questions.

Anyway... I have the Vid from Finless and I had seen it... for some reason... I guess it
was because he was poking around with a mini screw driver I had set in my mind
from watching said video a month ago that he was tweaking the speed controller by
switching dip switches on the unit itself.

Ok... well actually I have a Copter X with the supplied speed controller and motor.
But I did get my hands on the manual for the supplied speed controller...
www.copterx.nl/CopterX%20ESC%20manual.pdf

In the manual it says....
(second page bold print)
"The controllers are supplied with factory setting, Brake Off, LiPoly (automatic for battery number),
Soft start up and Auto timing.
Programming Card:
Super series ESC can be programmed by a E-PRO programming card. It will expand ESC’s functions and
suitability. Details please see the instructions of SUPER E-PRO Programming Card."

According to that statement I already have "Soft Start Up" functioning.

The smart thing... for me to do would be to take the motor out (for safety) and then test what is going
on when I flip the the Idle Up switch concerning the throttle.


OK... now I do have another initial concern.
As a noobie.... If I am in Idle Up mode.... and I break a belt.... my initial response
will be to cut the throttle hard or close enough to bring it down...

But... if I cut the throttle hard, as a noobie... in Idle Up mode, it will slam to the ground
because from the extreme negative pitch compared to flying in Normal Mode.

Obviously there is a proper response in Idle Up mode for when you loose the tail.. break a belt..
Autorotation or hitting the Idle Up switch back to Normal or hitting the Throttle Hold switch..

But you know as a noobie... my initial response will be to just cut the throttle hard.
I have broken a belt luckily nothing drastic and I got it down in normal mode.

Thanks again...
Old 11-03-2008, 01:25 PM
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Default RE: Mid stick Idle UP throttle and mid stick normal mode throttle...

So learn to fly in idle up now so you don't cut the stick hard when you get in trouble. I tell newbies to fly with a linear pitch curve as soon as possible for just that reason...so they don't develop the habit of cutting throttle when in trouble.

Also, you say you have pitch at center stick so that you hover at center stick? That isn't good....you want to have zero pitch at center stick and hover at around 3/4 stick. This is so when you do go to idle up, you have even pitch from center both positive and negative for your inverted maneuvers.

Skarn
Old 11-03-2008, 01:29 PM
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Default RE: Mid stick Idle UP throttle and mid stick normal mode throttle...

Ooops!
[sm=72_72.gif]
I thought you had an Align T-Rex 450.
All bets are off...I have no experience with what you're running.
JLK
Old 11-03-2008, 02:34 PM
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Default RE: Mid stick Idle UP throttle and mid stick normal mode throttle...

To answer your question, there is a "throttle hold" switch that must be set up on your radio. It will kill the motor. When something bad happens, you need to hit TH ASAP. You will eventually get used to always having a finger near it. I had a minor crash yesterday and only broke a canopy bolt because I hit TH fast enough. I didn't even bend a flybar rod!!
Old 11-03-2008, 10:51 PM
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Default RE: Mid stick Idle UP throttle and mid stick normal mode throttle...

well I can give you my setup exactly (trex se v2 3700Kv motor 35X ESC / dx7) throttle curves etc. but mine in setup so that I'm hovering at a little over mid stick, and whn I flip the switch to idle up 1 the motor increases speed but the heli stays is the same spot vertically, and idle up 2 the heli slowly starts ascending.

Now the trick is to get all your pitch curves linear, except for N mode because you won't be using negative here. So when you are in idle up you get exactly the same pitch at both ends of the stick and in a linear fashion, In normal mode you don't need a linear curve, and I prefer a more "curved" curve since it will give you a very passive collective response (for landing and hovering in close quarters, like the living room[:-]) You don't want your normal curve to be linear because it will make it a little fastidious to land properly since its too sensitive. The thing is you have to match pitch and throttle in N mode with idle up so when the heli is HOVERING it doesn't jump when you flip the switch. After a lot of trial and error this is what I was left with:

Throttle curves:
Normal: 0-50-75-83-100
Idle 1: 95-87-85-87-100
idle 2: 100-92-100

Pitch curves
norm: 45-50-60-76-100
idle1 & 2 linear (0-25-50-75-100)

This works with my setup but it all depends on yours, The idea is to play with your curves until you get it right. But alway star ot be low in norm and higher on idle up so in any case the heli could go up(which is better) instead of dropping to the ground.

hope this helps
cheers
Old 11-06-2008, 02:49 PM
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Default RE: Mid stick Idle UP throttle and mid stick normal mode throttle...

[/b]WELL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/b]

I flipped the Idle Up switch after testing on the work bench.. matching throttle and pitch...

I mean I flipped the Idle Up switch in flight at hover...

And totally uneventful and perfect match between Normal and Idle Up mode.

Thanks again group for putting up with my noobie nervousness and all your comments.
It helped a lot.

Now... about those loops, rolls and hurricanes....

Thanks again !
Old 11-07-2008, 10:18 AM
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Default RE: Mid stick Idle UP throttle and mid stick normal mode throttle...

I am 'almost' up to rolls, loops and flips! I am gettig really goof at stall turns and figure 8's and from there, it just take balls and a willingness to trisk a crash. I've been doing loops, rolls and flips on the sim for some time now.

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