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450SEV2 Motor temp.

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450SEV2 Motor temp.

Old 01-04-2009, 09:08 PM
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Default 450SEV2 Motor temp.

My motor is the 430XL (3700kv). I use the stock speed control, plus a UBEC, with 3C 2100, 20C Lipo packs. After 5 minutes of indoor hovering my motor gets to measured temp. around 240 F. I have used BL outrunners on a number of model airplanes and I never got temps. much over half of that.

Should I be concerned or is this normal for my heli to run the temp up to what I consider high. However, I have no clue as to what is normal and what is excessive. By the way, I rechecked the motor/pinion gear link and made sure that it was not too tight, adding some loading to the motor.

Any ideas??? Thanks.......Rich
Old 01-04-2009, 10:16 PM
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Default RE: 450SEV2 Motor temp.

Rich,

My motor usually was around 100-140 degrees.
Old 01-04-2009, 10:18 PM
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Default RE: 450SEV2 Motor temp.

which pinion?
which blades?

what is the headspeed... Measured with a TACH....

what is the AMP draw Measured with your watt meter?
Old 01-04-2009, 11:41 PM
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Default RE: 450SEV2 Motor temp.

Thanks for the responses. Pinion is 11 (stock with motor). I do not have a tach designed to accurately measure heli blades. My tach used on aircraft props will not do the job. I have a Watt meter but I don't know how to connect it and get readings at hover level. So I really don't know my amp draw. Main blades are Align 325 Fiber. My pitch curve is set at 90% at mid stick and beyond. I have approx. 10 hrs. on this motor and I am beginning to suspect that it has just about run its life expectancy. I have read reports of this motor not being the best of quality. However, I'm new to this and don't really know. If I were to replace the motor, what would be a good choice?


Again I am most appreciative of your willingness to be of help. Please continue your comments. Thank you....Rich
Old 01-05-2009, 09:09 AM
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Default RE: 450SEV2 Motor temp.

the motor should last MUCH longer.......

what is the pitch angle measured with a pitch gauge?
Old 01-05-2009, 09:34 AM
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Default RE: 450SEV2 Motor temp.

ORIGINAL: Old Dutch

Thanks for the responses. Pinion is 11 (stock with motor). I do not have a tach designed to accurately measure heli blades. My tach used on aircraft props will not do the job. I have a Watt meter but I don't know how to connect it and get readings at hover level. So I really don't know my amp draw. Main blades are Align 325 Fiber. My pitch curve is set at 90% at mid stick and beyond. I have approx. 10 hrs. on this motor and I am beginning to suspect that it has just about run its life expectancy. I have read reports of this motor not being the best of quality. However, I'm new to this and don't really know. If I were to replace the motor, what would be a good choice?


Again I am most appreciative of your willingness to be of help. Please continue your comments. Thank you....Rich
Your pitch at 90% at mid stick ? If you set the heli up correctly you will have 0 pitch at mid stick in Idle up and this will be your base. Then by using a pitch guage (a must) you will want to have -3 +5 +10 for a pitch curve in normal mode. The Align motors do not like to be bogged down so I suspect that the headspeed is way too slow. Use a 13T pinion and I will bet the motor will stay way cooler. Your throttle curve would be 0-47-85-90-100 in normal mode and lets say 100-95-90-95-100 in idle up with a pitch curve of 10-0-10. The 47 in the normal mode is a little bump that helps the heli not drop like a brick when landing. Also your pinion/gear lash is probably too tight. I have 2 of these motors with well over 300 flights each and no problem. I would say the quality is just fine. You can oil the bearings top and bottom. Just peel the sticker off the bottom to do the bottom.

Jim
Old 01-05-2009, 11:56 AM
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Default RE: 450SEV2 Motor temp.

First of all, I errored when I reported my Pitach curve was at 90, mid stick. I really meant my Throttle Curve.

I just now rechecked my pitch curve and was quite surprised to find it read a strong +13. Actually I had help setting this up originally by a local "expert". Because I was doing well with it I did not question how it was set up. However, I have now reset the pitch curve to -3,+5,+10.

Throttle curve: I was using 0-43-90-90-90

I will change the Throttle curve as per your suggestion. The pinion/gear lash is not tight because I recently checked and loosened it a bit. It had been a bit tight. I will also change out the pinion to T-13 and give it a go.

Many thanks for your response and advice.
Old 01-05-2009, 05:20 PM
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Default RE: 450SEV2 Motor temp.

hello olddutch maybe the back lash has moved on you or a bad bearing
2711 is your head speed if the main gear is 150 tooth got this from readiheli
http://www.readyheli.com/Online_Head...lator_s/81.htm ,, nice tool we dont need a tach
Old 01-05-2009, 11:38 PM
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Default RE: 450SEV2 Motor temp.

Thanks Dude. Although I thought the pinion was 11T it was actually 12T. Now I just installed the 13T so head speed will go up a few notches. It's just too darn cold out to fly O.S. right now and I'll have to wait until I can access an indoor spot to try my changes out. Another day or two and I'll be able to. I will then report back to you guys on what took place.

I really do appreciate your help............Rich
Old 01-06-2009, 07:46 AM
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Default RE: 450SEV2 Motor temp.


ORIGINAL: dude7422

,, nice tool we dont need a tach

yes you do....

that is theoretical.....
too many variables in the real world
Old 01-06-2009, 05:29 PM
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Default RE: 450SEV2 Motor temp.

haha acers i took a peek at your profile market authorized rank you just tring to sell all us a tach
Old 01-06-2009, 06:37 PM
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Default RE: 450SEV2 Motor temp.


ORIGINAL: dude7422

haha acers i took a peek at your profile market authorized rank you just tring to sell all us a tach

The tach's are so much more accurate than the charts for obvious reasons, and there usually off by 300-500 rpm's... There was a post at one time of guys going by the charts, noting there headspeed, and then grabbing there tach right afterwards and finding out that the tach charts were off, like Exeter has said there is just to many variables in play...


~ Jeff
Old 01-07-2009, 06:28 PM
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Default RE: 450SEV2 Motor temp.

jm so did any one figure out what was throwing off the head speed charts my quess would
be the extra 6inchs of wire these noobs have on there esc and motors some
people love the long wires they think hay it came with all this wire i better use it
Old 01-07-2009, 07:41 PM
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Default RE: 450SEV2 Motor temp.


ORIGINAL: dude7422

haha acers i took a peek at your profile market authorized rank you just tring to sell all us a tach

Huh? not sure what you are talking about...
but I am not selling my Tach...sorry
Old 01-07-2009, 11:19 PM
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Default RE: 450SEV2 Motor temp.

Man, that is one hot motor !

I, too was gonna suggest checking the pinion mesh, and also belt tension.

When You flick the rotorhead, You should get at least 2 1/2 turns or much more.

On the Tach; Yes, You need one and spring for an OPTICAL TACH; don't skimp and get a prop tach for 20 bucks, too dangerous to use for helis and only work in natural Daylight as per the instructions.

You can Optical tach the heli from a safe distance and someone else can easily tach it in hover.

No one said this hobby was cheap!

Gary

Old 01-08-2009, 06:09 PM
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Default RE: 450SEV2 Motor temp.

i have a question for goldslinger and acres do you two use temp guns in your nitro motors???
Old 01-09-2009, 11:45 PM
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Default RE: 450SEV2 Motor temp.

Update. After making some adjustments as per suggestions given me here, I finally had a chance to do an indoor test flight. I put the bird up into hover and it was my gut feeling that the head speed wasn't quite what it should have been. After 3 minutes the tail started to jerk slowly, side to side. About 3 1/2 minutes the motor shut down. I took off the canopy and saw a very small puff of smoke. Measured temp. of motor was 240 deg. (same as last few flights). Battery pack was 97 deg. and the speed contol 140 deg. So things are getting worse. Tomorrow I will remove the UBEC and give it a go, just to eliminate things.

So, what do you think?............Rich
Old 01-11-2009, 11:13 PM
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Default RE: 450SEV2 Motor temp.

By passing the UBEC I had no better results with the Speed Control and Motor. I decided to replace the Speed Control. I was so sure that it had to be the problem. Alas, I may have wasted time and money. First flight with the new control resulted in 3 minutes of a good solid hover. Then I smelled something HOT. Quickly putting the heli down I found the motor to be smoking profusely. And it was extremely hot.

I now have a new motor on order.
Old 01-16-2009, 11:54 PM
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Default RE: 450SEV2 Motor temp.

Well.......after a whole lot of anguish, time and money, the problem is gone. In addition to installing a new speed control, I also installed a new motor. (same as original). Guess what. Same overheating and after only 3 minutes hovering the tail twitching violently and soon afterward it powered down. That can only mean power starvation. I then removed the dedicated, external, BEC. At the same time, in an effort to improve efficiency of the pitch/motor relationship, resulting in cooler running components, I totally reset the head. I reset collective and throttle curves as given in "Ray's" book. Following that I hovered 5 battery packs (3C 2100 20C) and was amazed. After a 5 min. hover the motor temp. measured 134 deg. I found that I could add 2 min. flight time and still hold battery power consumption to 80%.

Somehow adding a BEC to assure more than adequate power for the servos was the culprit. I have used them (not this brand) for years in model airplanes with no problem at all. Something went wrong and I just could not pin it down soon enough.

My thanks to all for your interests and concerns. I really appreciate your help...............Rich

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