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Futaba 6EXHP and HK401 gyro questions

Old 07-15-2010, 10:04 PM
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Default Futaba 6EXHP and HK401 gyro questions

I have an HK500 trex clone that I have a HK401 gyro and digital servos in. My Radio is a Futaba 6EXHP radio system. What I want to know is what do you set the gyro delay on the gyro at. My other question is what do you set the gyro gain on the radio at. I found messing with the gyro mounted delay pot helps stop tail wag but it also seems to slow down response at the controls. As far as the radio goes I'm at a loss there. Can too little gain cause tail wag? I also find the more I turn up gyro gain past +60 the more my servo wants to buzz. I'm at a loss any help would be appreciated
Old 07-16-2010, 11:52 AM
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Default RE: Futaba 6EXHP and HK401 gyro questions

Tail wag is caused by too much gain.

With a digital tail servo, the delay on the gyro should be zero, then decrease the gain in the radio until the tail stops wagging.

When the gain is too low the tail will feel loose and sloppy and will kind of wander, not wag.
Old 10-26-2010, 12:59 PM
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Default RE: Futaba 6EXHP and HK401 gyro questions

Hi gauicanada
I wonder if you can help me,
Ihave never flown Helo's before butI amthinking of getting a HK500GT,I also have a Futaba 6ex.

What i would like to know is what servo's, Brushless Motor, Gyro did you use

and how did you set up your futaba?
Old 10-26-2010, 09:08 PM
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Default RE: Futaba 6EXHP and HK401 gyro questions

What I used is on cyclic (three around main shaft) was HK MG930, then on the tail I used HGD digital 261HB carbon geared tail servo. The motor is a 1600 HK motor with a 70-80 amp speed control with bec. My gyro is Futaba GY240 and My radio system is Futaba 6EXHP I like Futaba at the controls because I trust them. The tail servo has the hole on the servo horn closest to centre to stop tail wag and my dual rate is set at 75 and 60 percent. My throttle curve is set at 0 40 50 60 and 85. my pitch is 0 2 4 6 8 all of these settings are for mild sport flying they won't work for 3D. If you are starting out sport flying is a good beginning. 0 on my pitch is 0 degrees at the blades too you will need to do some minor tweaking but this should get you started.
Old 10-27-2010, 02:40 AM
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Default RE: Futaba 6EXHP and HK401 gyro questions

One more thing. Before you even entertain the idea of flying your heli get a flight simulator and get good at that first. How are you at building because you need to check every screw in that kit and loctite only the ones that don't go into plastic and you need to lube and grease certain bearings. Have you flown any kind of heli before ?
Old 10-27-2010, 12:40 PM
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Default RE: Futaba 6EXHP and HK401 gyro questions

I have the Phoenix flight sim, and yes i'm not too bad with tools....and no never flown a heli before. there is a good heli pilot in our club who's brain i will be picking. I have also seen the lighter heli's in the field and with a gentle 3 -4 mph wind could not take off, So thats why i'm thinking of the HK500 as it's bigger and heavier, and i hope can hold its own. My Futaba is the aero version and am not sure what the difference is between the 6ex and 6exH,
What i am hoping to do is build iton a budget.
Old 10-27-2010, 07:17 PM
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Default RE: Futaba 6EXHP and HK401 gyro questions

The radio system has to have swashplate mixing. The HK500 is a ccpm type heli and you also need throttle and pitch mixing as well so you really do need a helicopter type radio to make it work. The HK500 is a good heli in the wind but there is a limit to how much it will take too but they behave very well in a 3-4 mph wind.
Old 10-28-2010, 01:27 AM
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Default RE: Futaba 6EXHP and HK401 gyro questions

The standard 6ex has<p class="bodybolder">Helicopter-Specific Programming Functions:</p><ul>[*]5-Point Normal and Idle Up Throttle/Pitch Curves.[*]Throttle Hold &ndash; for autorotation.[*]Revo (Revolution Mixing) &ndash; mixes rudder and pitch together.[*]Gyro Mixing &ndash; two gyro gain settings can be programmed and selected during flight.[*]Swash to Throttle Mixing &ndash; corrects slowing of the engine's speed caused by the swashplate.[*]Swashplate Types &ndash; choose from 1S (independent aileron, pitch and elevator servos linked to the swashplate), 3S (120&deg; CCPM), or 3E (90&deg; CCPM).[*]Swash AFR &ndash; Adjustable Function Rate, for use with 1S, 3S or 3E swash types.[/list]can i get by with these.
Old 10-28-2010, 03:53 AM
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Default RE: Futaba 6EXHP and HK401 gyro questions

That's perfect just what you need. Your swash is a 3S when you use heading hold you don't use the Revo function BUT if you use normal mode you want Revo mixing. On the 6EX set the gyro sensativity at +25% with switch tipped upward and -25% with the switch tipped down. When the gyro sensativity is switched to posative it will be in heading hold with it switched to negative it will be in normal mode. You are best off in heading hold mode with no Revo mixing, set the gyro at no delay and about 75% gain. One more thing you want is training gear for this heli until you get it fine tuned and you are comfortable, one tip over can destroy these helis. I know because that's what happened to the first one I bought. Read the instructions carefully on your radio it puts you in the right direction when it comes to setting up your servos. I like to shield all my servo wires and ESC signal wiring they can interfer with each other also make sure there is no way your antena wire will contact the helicopter frame that will cause much grief if it does. Let me know how the build goes I can add bits and pieces of info as you need it.
Old 10-29-2010, 07:35 AM
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Default RE: Futaba 6EXHP and HK401 gyro questions


ORIGINAL: Fullrotation

The standard 6ex has<p class="bodybolder">Helicopter-Specific Programming Functions:</p><ul>[*]5-Point Normal and Idle Up Throttle/Pitch Curves.[*]Throttle Hold &ndash; for autorotation.[*]Revo (Revolution Mixing) &ndash; mixes rudder and pitch together.[*]Gyro Mixing &ndash; two gyro gain settings can be programmed and selected during flight.[*]Swash to Throttle Mixing &ndash; corrects slowing of the engine's speed caused by the swashplate.[*]Swashplate Types &ndash; choose from 1S (independent aileron, pitch and elevator servos linked to the swashplate), 3S (120&deg; CCPM), or 3E (90&deg; CCPM).[*]Swash AFR &ndash; Adjustable Function Rate, for use with 1S, 3S or 3E swash types.[/list]can i get by with these.
yes.. the 6EX is a nice radio to fly helis with.. I have it on my TREX Clone..

This flight is with the Futaba 6EX..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNrafMSx_AU
Old 10-29-2010, 08:23 AM
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Default RE: Futaba 6EXHP and HK401 gyro questions

Nice bit of flying there. Good video too, I checked out the other videos too all good I like M+M but his language could use some cleaning up though.
Old 10-29-2010, 12:28 PM
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Default RE: Futaba 6EXHP and HK401 gyro questions

Rob, that was unbelievable. you sure there was no one with a pole and string attached to that heli.
Hope that was'nt a 500 ......gulp. I just want mine to go up 2 feet and stay there and prey  that it lands again.

<font size="2" color="#00265e">gauicanada</font>  Thanks for your update on settings, i have put them onto my futaba as a base line.
What have you got for the
I-TH
I-PI
Theottle Hold
SW-T
SWSH

I know im Cheeky but i dont have a clue on what values to put in, I will also use them in the Phoenix sim to see how they work.
&lt;script&gt;</script&gt;
Old 10-29-2010, 01:35 PM
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Default RE: Futaba 6EXHP and HK401 gyro questions

gauicanada
my pitch is 0 2 4 6 8
Are you saying a bottem stick you have zero pitch at mid stick you have +4 deg. and at the top you have +8 deg?
If so where did you get the idea to set the pitch curve up that way?

Old 10-29-2010, 01:54 PM
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Default RE: Futaba 6EXHP and HK401 gyro questions

ea01bg

on the 6ex you can put values in
N-th,  p1  ??%,p2 ??%,p3 ??%,p4 ??%, and p5 ??%
N-PI,  p1  ??%,p2 ??%,p3 ??%,p4 ??%, and p5 ??%
Old 10-29-2010, 05:40 PM
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Default RE: Futaba 6EXHP and HK401 gyro questions

I realize that. it still doesnt answer my question. I was ask gauicanada if the values he gave where actual pitch values.
Old 10-29-2010, 07:47 PM
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Default RE: Futaba 6EXHP and HK401 gyro questions


ORIGINAL: gauicanada

I have an HK500 trex clone that I have a HK401 gyro and digital servos in. My Radio is a Futaba 6EXHP radio system. What I want to know is what do you set the gyro delay on the gyro at. My other question is what do you set the gyro gain on the radio at. I found messing with the gyro mounted delay pot helps stop tail wag but it also seems to slow down response at the controls. As far as the radio goes I'm at a loss there. Can too little gain cause tail wag? I also find the more I turn up gyro gain past +60 the more my servo wants to buzz. I'm at a loss any help would be appreciated
Hopefully I can now answer your questions..

Firstly, don't worry about the servo buzz.. that is normal with digital servos.. mine does too.

My HK401 arrived yesterday and I installed it on the Heli last night whenI got back from work. (A HK450 Pro TT) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lU4w7IT-1do

This morning I have just maidened the heli (it has a Futaba S9257 Servo on the tail in Digital mode)

My settings for the HK401 are

Delay = 0
Limit =100
Digital Servo = ON
Direction = REVERSE (just on my set up - yours may be different)


I am using a Futaba 6EX

My settings for the swashplate are

Swash type = 3S

A = +50
E = - 50
P = - 40 (gives me + 9 and - 9 degrees of pitch - that is enough for my flying)

The gyro gain with switch UP = 50 (it was just a guess but it works perfectly so I'll leave it there... NO wag, and tail is ROCK solid)
With switch down I have set -25 (but I'll never use that in flight.. I just set it that way to test and setup the gyro)

Remember, with your futaba... any positive value on gyro will put it in HH mode.- and the RED light will be ON

Any negative value will put it in RATE mode - RED light will be OFF

I have to say this combination HK401 &amp; Futaba S9257 is absolutey AWESOME.. it is the best combination Ihave used BYFAR and the heli piros nicely and stops rock solid every time.


Make sure you do the HK401 Gyro fix.. this is ESSENTIAL... I am getting a 2nd HK401 and I will video the fix and post it here in a few days..

Hope all that helps..



Old 10-29-2010, 08:58 PM
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Default RE: Futaba 6EXHP and HK401 gyro questions

It isn't actually % of pitch it is the setting of the radio itself. What I did was trial and error my pitch settings are very mild and it is more like a fixed pitch with my setup. The RPM do the work in my case the pitch is fine tuning for hover and forward flight. This one is set up for hover and mild flying about as gentle as you can get it. This setting will not allow the type of flying so see in the video for that you would need to reset everything. All my settings are trial and error and they work for me. Once ones skill level goes up these settings would be useless.
Old 10-29-2010, 09:08 PM
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Default RE: Futaba 6EXHP and HK401 gyro questions

You need to ask yourself if you want to fly 3D or scale. I'm going scale so my preference is for slow movement and stability in doing so. I have done all my adjusting on my own with only the help of the poles here and as a result have crashed many types of helis until I got the HK500 and this one has had over 200 batteries through and that is the way it is set up. I'm not misleading anyone here just stating only my experience and what I found and do not profess to be and expert.
Old 10-30-2010, 07:26 AM
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Default RE: Futaba 6EXHP and HK401 gyro questions

Here is a my maiden flight with the HK450 Pro TT with HK401 Gyro and a Futaba S9257 Servo.. A very nice combo for the tail..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9X0rYnHEDY

Old 10-30-2010, 08:53 AM
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Default RE: Futaba 6EXHP and HK401 gyro questions

The RPM do the work
That’s a little bas ackwards. If you setup an actual scale curve you may find that you get more control and the Heli will be more consistent through turns. A good scale curve starting point is -3 at the bottom of the stick . +5 or +6 at mid stick (hover point) and +10 at the top. If you go to a scale fun fly you will find that curve on most of the helis from the big varios to the 500’s.

What I want to know is what do you set the gyro delay on the gyro at
If you are using a digital servo dont use the delay. Its there to cominsate for delay in analog servos. If you are getting tail wag its most likly cause is having to much gain on the gyro.
How high is you gain?
Old 10-30-2010, 09:48 AM
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Default RE: Futaba 6EXHP and HK401 gyro questions

Some other things you can check for that may cause a wag or other tail problems.
1. Binding of any kind.
Go through your entire tail setup and make sure everything is 100 %. With the smaller Helis the mechanical setup is paramount. The small servos just wont overcome any binding.
2. placement of the ball on the tail servo. If you have to much throw the gyro will hunt aka wag. If you keep reducing the gain and cant get the wag to go away this may well be the problem.
Old 10-30-2010, 02:58 PM
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Default RE: Futaba 6EXHP and HK401 gyro questions

First off I don't fly 3D my setting are about flying when you are still green as grass. I set the pitch at 0% and 0 on the radio, WHY because if I have to suddenly cut the throttle for whatever reason I won't drive the heli into the ground which is what a negative pitch will do in that instance. Second until ones flying skills get to a certain point autorotation is not in the picture either so therefore no need for negative pitch. This is what my 500 flys very easily with no 3D no flips or tick tocks and no flying like a ruptured mosquito. Now a 450 needs more agressive settings because it needs to be in motion to deal with what a litte wind can do to one of those. I have had four of them and after flying a 500 there is no going back I would rather enjoy my flying than fight with the heli. My settings are gentle and if you are just starting out the worst thing one can do in my opinion is have thier heli set for three D flying. When you change your flying style then you change your settings and you change them as gradually as your flying skills improve. Each sets thier machine in what is best for them and for me this way is best. I also now use a Futaba GY240 gyro and for my flying style it is the best I could have for my needs.
Old 10-30-2010, 04:41 PM
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Default RE: Futaba 6EXHP and HK401 gyro questions

gauicanada
The curve I sent you is not a 3d curve , its a standard scale curve it has nothing to do with 3D. And its used by experts and beginers a like. If you look in my profile you will see that I fly scale and pod an boom helis. I'm just trying to help you out here. There are ways to tame a heli down and still have it setup properly. The settings your using are not begginer settings they are just bad. Its your Heli fly what you want but you should refrain from pass those settings along as a beginners setup.
Old 10-30-2010, 05:02 PM
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Default RE: Futaba 6EXHP and HK401 gyro questions

I have built an HK500GT, and there is one thing you must replace from the start. The plastic tail unit will most likely fail (mine after 5 batteries). This is a flaw in the unit, but HK won't tell you about it. Get the metal tail assembly. Ensure that the blade pitch is 0 at mid-stick. Mechanically, the heli must be set right. You can tame it down with the radio, not the mechanics.

My setup:
HK-500-124 -HK-500GT Carbon Fiber/Alloy tail servo plate
HK5033 -HK-T500 Motor Pinion Gear 12T/13T
TGY-MG930 -Turnigy MG930 Digital Metal Gear Servo (3)
TY500H-1700 -Turnigy Typhoon 500H Heli Motor 1800kv
TR_P80A -TURNIGY Plush 80A w/ UBEC Speed Controller
HK500GT -HK-500GT 3D Electric Helicopter Kit
HK401B -Hobby King 401B AVCS Digital Head Lock Gyro
(replaced with Align GP780)
DS9670 -MKS DS9670 Precise Digital Servo (1)
CF430-3D -500 Size Carbon Fiber helicopter blades
T3000.6S.20 -Turnigy 3000mAh 6S 20C Lipo Pack
GT500-121 -HK-500GT Metal Tail Holder Assembly

Also, check my video on YouTube. One the first flights after the build. I have the DX7 transmitter and use the OrangeRX DSM2 receiver in this heli.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rvkc7-lj0iw[/youtube]

Gilles
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Old 10-30-2010, 05:55 PM
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Default RE: Futaba 6EXHP and HK401 gyro questions

The version I have had a plastic washout and plastic washout arms. If you have that one I'd suggest replaceing the washout and arms. The screws that hold the washout arms on pulled right out of the washout.

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