define "rock solid tail"
 

I have seen this term used a lot here and was wondering what everyones definition was.
Does the tail stay pointed exactly where you want or does it creep. Mine creeps no matter
what. I'm using a telebee hh gyro on my 450 se. I used the Finless video for the setup, but
it won't stay put. I'm constantly fighting the tail. I can adjust the rudder sub trim one click to
stop the tail from creeping, but then it creeps the other direction. Is this normal or do I need
to get a new gyro?

RE: define "rock solid tail"
 

a "rock solid" tail is one that wont creep. you may need to increase your sensitivity a notch or two. if its too sensitive, it wags. if its not sensitive enough, it hunts.

i have been lucky in my setups (without refering to finless) in that my tail has been perfect. now i may be mistaken, but, i believe i have heard of issues with the telebee gyro. personaly, i use a JR G7703D on my SE V2, and i am very pleased with its performance. i did have a VERY minor issue with the Futaba GY401 when i had my SA. however, it was still very controllable.

RE: define "rock solid tail"
 

I have two Bees and no creeping issues.

Any recent crashes? Vibrations drive gyros nuts.

You may need to go in one hole on the servo arm and readjust your gain. Creep can be caused by low gain. But if you are out too far on the servo arm, you can't turn it up without wag.

RE: define "rock solid tail"
 

Yep rock solid to me means the tail stays locked in to your commanded postion until you command it again.

One note: You do NOT want to use rudder trim to counter drift with a head hold gyro! It will work....until you power down and then power back up to reinitialize the gyro.

But, I do have to say, I know nothing about that Telebee gyro.

Skarn

RE: define "rock solid tail"
 

I think what you may be seeing is temperature creep. If you are taking the heli out of a hot car or out of the house when it is cold outside give it about 5 minutes to adjust to the outside temp then reset the gryo. This is a issue with the telebee I fought with a long time ago and pretty common to forget about during the summer and have to learn again with the temp changes. Depending on where your flying at that is. From inside in the AC to outside in the head could also be a problem.

RE: define "rock solid tail"
 

Thanks for the tip. This was all done inside though.

RE: define "rock solid tail"
 

Starting to think my gyro doesn't work right. I have messed with it all evening and still the same thing.
I also notice that after adjusting the creep out of the tail servo with the rudder sub trim and then
unplugging the battery to reset the gyro, the servo goes back to creeping. I tried 90% gain on the
gyro and the tail still creeps. I thought about moving in on the servo arm, but that would just allow
more gain without wag. I think 90% should be way to high anyways. No vibrations either. The heli
is very smooth.

RE: define "rock solid tail"
 

you should have the linkage as close to the servo arm as possible, (close to the center of the servo arm) that should give you more gain, I had the same issue with a jr gyro, because I was on the second hole on the servo arm. worth a shot

RE: define "rock solid tail"
 

That's exactly what I was telling you in my post above. You do NOT want to use any type of trim to counter drift! It will work until the gyro reinitializes...it will consider the new trimmed position center and ignore it.

Skarn

RE: define "rock solid tail"
 

So, how do you adjust the creep out of the servo when you set up the gyro?
I did this according to the Finless video. I understand not using the trim to counter
tail creep when flying, but I have to adjust creep out of the servo somehow when
setting up the gyro.

RE: define "rock solid tail"
 

What Tx are you using? If it's a 2.4 system you may think about rebinding after all the adjustments you have made. When I was first setting up my gy401 I was experiencing the same issue and rebinding solved the issues.

Uri

RE: define "rock solid tail"
 

No. I wish it was. It's a futaba 6exh. Using a PCM receiver.

RE: define "rock solid tail"
 

How bad is the drift? I did some quick looking and a LOT of people experience drift with this gyro...apparently it's not the best.

Does the gyro/servo "creep" as in the Finless vid? If so, apparently for this gyro you do indeed use subtrim! Sorry about that, I had no idea that servo was different than most in that regards.

Is your gain pot on the gyro iteself set at 100?

What gain do you have in your radio? Finless says to use about 50% in gyro sense.

Other than that, sorry bro, I've never used that gyro.

Skarn

RE: define "rock solid tail"
 

Sit it on the bench and turn up your gain until it stops creeping. If it won't fly, you are on the wrong hole on the servo arm.

RE: define "rock solid tail"
 

Well was worth a shot LOL.

One more thing that I had happen with my 450. I changed from the OEM plastic tail box to the Align V1 gray CNC tail. Everything was working perfectly prior to changing it out so I knew I didn't have gyro issues but my tail was wagging a little and constantly creaping to the left. I tried everything I could think of including changing the belt and still had issues. I finally discovered that the tail slider was a tight fit around the center of the tail shaft. I took the tail slider and control lever off, and spun the main blades while holding some 600 grit sand paper with a drop of oil on the tail shaft. Sanded for a minute or two fitting the slider once and a while and finally got to a point where the slider traveled without being "sticky" at any point in the travel and poof problem solved.

Uri

RE: define "rock solid tail"
 

I can't hover for more than about 5-7 seconds without the tail drifting 90 degrees.
My servo does creep like in the Finless video until I trim it out. I've had my gyro gain
up to 100% without wag and the tail still creeps. My servo also has to be trimmed
over again after every battery change. The tail linkage is all smooth. I ordered a gy401
and a s9257. We'll see if it's better. Probably need help setting it up.

RE: define "rock solid tail"
 

that sounds to me that you are stuck in "constant rate" mode, that is with the drift that you described anyways. im not familiar with the Futaba radio so i dont know how to tell you to program it but, with the DX7, i have my remote sensitivity on my gear channel. my travel setup is +30/-30. and this gives me constant mode and head-lock mode. double check your programing and see if that helps.

RE: define "rock solid tail"
 

I have an actual gyro switch. In standard mode the servo tries to return to center when you release the stick. In hh mode it tends to stay where you put it. This is correct according to the video. Hopefully I'll have better luck with the gy401.

RE: define "rock solid tail"
 

i would say you either have a REALLY messed up gyro or its a radio issue. if its the radio, the gy401 isnt going to solve anything. on my dx7, i can setup a "gyro" switch as well. however, using a "travel" setting seems a bit more prrecise and a lot less confusing for me. either way, i would definitly make sure to eliminate any radio problems before i dropped the change for a new gyro.

RE: define "rock solid tail"
 

I really don't see any radio problems. Everything works like it should according to Finless' video, the gyro just won't quite keep the tail still. The 401 is already on the way so I guess we'll see soon. I appreciate everyones help and input.

RE: define "rock solid tail"
 

Are you sure you have the REVO feature mix set to INH? That can drive you crazy when set to HH.

RE: define "rock solid tail"
 

Ok. Just got my new gy401 and s9257 setup and working. Looks like I have the same issue. I know the gyro is in avcs as the light is solid. Revo is set to INH.
I can increase the gyro gain all the way to 100% and still dont get any tail wag. It's like the gyro doesnt realize the heli is turning slightly. If I use the rudder
sub-trim, I can make the tail hold just as good in rate mode. Slight drift.

RE: define "rock solid tail"
 

Did you set it up exacly like in the Finless video?

Bascially, center slider in rate mode, set limit pot so it's not binding (between 80 - 100), flip to HH mode.

Also:
- what servo arm are you using? Use the round wheel and center hole so that it's 90 deg. You will have to move the servo to get the arm at 90 and slider centered.

Good luck man,
Skarn

RE: define "rock solid tail"
 

Yup. Exactly like the video. Using the round wheel. Center hole at 90 degrees with pitch slider centered.

RE: define "rock solid tail"
 

Do you have any vibrations at all? Vibrations will make the gyro creep. Check for vibrations in head or in tail.

Also which way is the creep? If it creeps with nose going left you may just have a low headspeed or slipping situation. What is your headspeed?