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Funtana 90 and CA hinges

Old 10-08-2004, 04:57 PM
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Todd D
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Default Funtana 90 and CA hinges

Mike,

I'm getting ready to start assembling my F90. The kit comes with the CA hinges as you know. I'm just wondering if those are adequate. I see there have been some wing failures and does H-9 contribute any of these these to the CA hinges. I know if they aren't installed correctly that CA hinges will fail in any application. Basically I just want to know if I should "upgrade" or go with the CA as supplied. If upgrade, what kind? I do know how to "correctly install" CA hinges.
I am planning to use Hi tech HS5645 servo's
I did find one rib cracked in my wing, but it's the second one in and I can easily CA the crack. from the open end.

Thanks for your support and I enjoyed the article in Model Aiplane news on the H9 edge 540.
Saving my pennies for that one!
Old 10-11-2004, 09:07 AM
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Default RE: Funtana 90 and CA hinges

The CA hinges should be fine. I flew my F90 quite a bit over the w/e and wasnt real easy on it. Itrs an old beater now and has tons of flights. I think the primary reason some have problems is either installing the CA hinges incorrectly and/or setting up the model with poor mechanical advantage and fluttering it.
Old 11-07-2004, 11:46 AM
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Default RE: Funtana 90 and CA hinges

Mr. McConville:
how are you? I work part time at a hobby shop here in florida and I purchased a H9 F90 for myself.
I have been having problems with broken wing ribs out of the box, I have had my 3rd set of wings sent to me and they too had broken wing ribs. and I was told that the wings that were in stock also had broken wing ribs. the only solution after that was they sent me covering and decals to so I could repair my wings myself. although the repair's went with out a hitch it seemed to defeat the purpouse of having an a.r.f.. now your probably asking why did I buy the plane the answer is I think that overall it is a great looking plane as well I think that it is an awsome performing aircraft. now are these problems going to be fixed? and when will they be fixed? as I also am dealing with unhappy customers about the wing situation. this is just my opinion but I feel a recall should be made to remedy these problems.
as I know of countless other's with the same problems just from reading post's here on R.C.U.

thank you
Old 11-08-2004, 02:08 PM
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Default RE: Funtana 90 and CA hinges

Well, the wings in the models in stock should not have broben ribs. Its is a problem in general with a model built so lightly though. I did make a change to the aileron servo mounts starting with the recent shipments and added another rib to make the servo mount much stronger. The issue at the moment isnt that the wings here are broken, its tha we done have any. The kits in stock have the new rib arrangement.
Old 11-13-2004, 02:03 PM
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bkuns
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Default RE: Funtana 90 and CA hinges

Mike

Let me introduce myself. My name is Bob Kuns, I was one of the original founders of Airflair. We last met at the GCRCC Flying Circus last year.
I started and stopped flying an F90 one day back in August. I set up my plane with a Saito 100, I used DuBro giant scale hinges and sealed the hinge gap top and bottom with clear covering. On the second flight, coming out of a low G turn, we all heard a loud crack and the wings, not the ailerons, started fluttering. I was able to land safely with no further damage. The wing spars had cracked. Amazingly the spars broke inboard of the end of the aluminum tube. I have only seen two other F90's, both owned by the same person and his wings failed in the same manner as mine on the first flight of each plane.
Having 30 years experience in RC and 10 years as a kit manufacturer, I am very confident in saying that the material used for the spars is totally inadequate.

In the very short amount of time I flew the F90, I was extremly pleased with its flight characteristics. BUT now its the middle of November and I have yet to receive my replacement wings.

In my opinion, Horizon would reap great PR benefits by publicly admitting the engineering shortcomings of the F90 wings and expediting the remedy of the problem.

Yours truly,
Bob Kuns
Old 11-13-2004, 08:25 PM
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Default RE: Funtana 90 and CA hinges

Mike

Let me introduce myself. My name is Bob Kuns, I was one of the original founders of Airflair. We last met at the GCRCC Flying Circus last year.
I started and stopped flying an F90 one day back in August. I set up my plane with a Saito 100, I used DuBro giant scale hinges and sealed the hinge gap top and bottom with clear covering. On the second flight, coming out of a low G turn, we all heard a loud crack and the wings, not the ailerons, started fluttering. I was able to land safely with no further damage. The wing spars had cracked. Amazingly the spars broke inboard of the end of the aluminum tube. I have only seen two other F90's, both owned by the same person and his wings failed in the same manner as mine on the first flight of each plane.
Having 30 years experience in RC and 10 years as a kit manufacturer, I am very confident in saying that the material used for the spars is totally inadequate.

In the very short amount of time I flew the F90, I was extremly pleased with its flight characteristics. BUT now its the middle of November and I have yet to receive my replacement wings.

In my opinion, Horizon would reap great PR benefits by publicly admitting the engineering shortcomings of the F90 wings and expediting the remedy of the problem.

Yours truly,
Bob Kuns
Well said
you hit the nail right on the head about the wing spars being totaly inadequate.
And I think Horizon needs to admit the problems surrounding the Funtana if they want to keep a good reputation. in fact I feel a recall should be in order.

take care all
Old 11-14-2004, 10:46 AM
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Default RE: Funtana 90 and CA hinges

Hmmmmm I wonder if Mr. McConville is trying to dis this post? as he has not been back to give n answer to our post's about the problems surrounding the Funtana 90 that he raves so much about in all of the Horizon advertisements. I also wonder if Sebastiano Silvestri knows about those problems as well
Old 11-14-2004, 11:22 AM
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Default RE: Funtana 90 and CA hinges

I'm sure Mike has a pretty busy schedule and compared to some of the competitive fliers seems to do a great job of getting on here every chance he gets.

Bob, several folks have been on here bashing the Funtana 90. To your credit you are one of a select few that gets to the point, makes sense, and does it without all the derrogatory comments. The one I have has been put thru the wringer for many flights and is holding up fine. Won another in a raffle last week and it looks like it is without any wing damage. I think the luck of the draw may have a lot to do with it. From some of the pics posted it looks like the wing has been redone in the latest shipment. Only time will tell.

Ed M.
Old 11-14-2004, 01:05 PM
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Default RE: Funtana 90 and CA hinges

Ed

I'm sure your right about the luck of the draw.
I have uploaded three pictures showing the damage to my wings. Notice the grain in the spars, it runs diagonally across the spar and they broke along the grain. I would advise everyone to examin their spars, if the grain looks like mine they have a high probability of failure.

My big complaint is that I sent the wings back to Horizon in August and still don't have my replacements.

Bob
Old 11-14-2004, 01:29 PM
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bkuns
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Default RE: Funtana 90 and CA hinges

Well I uploaded the pictures but have no idea where they went. I am new to the forum so I could use a little help. How do I get a file attached to my message? I uploaded the pictures using the 'Click here to upload' link at the bottom of the 'Reply to Message' window expecting them to be attached to my reply but they don't appear to be there.

Thanks
Bob
Old 11-14-2004, 01:38 PM
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Default RE: Funtana 90 and CA hinges

I used the stock CA hinges, and have had no problem. I feel sorry for those who have problems with their Funtana 90.
It might be the luck of the draw, but I am very excited with mine. In fact this is the best plane I have ever owned/flown in its size (meaning smaller than my 33% Cap).
Yesterday was one of the rare windless days in Hawaii, and I has a blast with my F 90. It is much easier to fly without our usual 10 to 20 Mph wind.[8D]
Old 11-14-2004, 11:45 PM
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Default RE: Funtana 90 and CA hinges

Bob, when you click on the upload images button it brings up another window. From there click on browsed and then select the pic on your hard drive, double click on it. When you get thru adding pics, up to 4 and close the window it will pause while it uploads them and resizes them for forum use. You might want to try again, sometimes they seem to go off into never never land. Thsi whole thread may be messed up anyway. Soem of the post are getting a black border and when I looked back to my first post its missing. You may not have received the replacement wings yet because I understand they ran out. Had a pretty big request for them. The shame of it is many problems were assembler induced.

Ed M.
Old 11-15-2004, 12:03 AM
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Default RE: Funtana 90 and CA hinges

Can someone explain why this thread is too wide to view without using the lateral scroll bar?
Can I modify this on my computer and how?
Thanks
Old 11-18-2004, 12:04 PM
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Default RE: Funtana 90 and CA hinges

HI guys, As I explained in a seperate post in this forum, I'm presently in Asia and do not have access to the internet much. I wont be back in the office till the 29th. Till then I cant respond regularily. Not "dis"ing the thread.

However I am respectfully disagreeing with some of the comments. IMO, the issues I have seen relulted from aileron flutter whilc im many cases on many airplanes can very quickly transition into a destructive wing flutter. Thats the down side to building a very ligthweight airframe. Of those of you here who have had wings break, what serrvos were you using/what torque tariung were you using on ailerons?
We did recently make a change to the aileron servo mount to strengthen it so that it isnt so easily broken with shipping, handling etc.
Old 11-18-2004, 01:54 PM
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Default RE: Funtana 90 and CA hinges

Mike

I'm assuming you read my first post in this thread. I used Futaba 9202's at 6V, 98in.oz of torque. As I explained in the post, the grain of the spars ran diagonally across the spars over a length of about 1 - 1.2in. My spars failed on the inboard side of the aluminum tube breaking along the grain. In my first post I talked about the engineering shortcomings of the wings. Perhaps poor quality control of the materials would be more appropriate. I also mentioned that I have only seen two other F90s. Both had wing failure on the first flight, and they had the same problem with the spars as mine. If I had not used large nylon hinges and sealed the hinge gaps, my contention is that the weak spar material would allow flexing in the wings which would set up oscillations that would cause the ailerons to flutter. I believe this is what has been happening to many people.
From my 10 years as a kit manufacturer, I certainly learned that if one is going to build a light airframe, quality of materials is extremly important. Also in my first post I said that the spar material was totally inadequate. Again, let me restate that by saying that the quality of the spar material was totally inadequate. If the spars on my F90 had straight grain I doubt I would have had a problem.
I have unsucessfully tried to post a picture showing where my spars broke, I will try again.

Bob
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Old 11-29-2004, 09:23 PM
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Todd D
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Default RE: Funtana 90 and CA hinges

Guys, thanks for all the info on the F90 wings and to bkuns thanks for the email. I have yet to start assembly of my F90 as I await Mike's response to this thread. I see that H9 has now made an upgrade to the wing with the extra rib for servo support. I saw a picture of it in the for sale area on RCU. Clearly this was a design flaw recognized after the first version was released. Will H9 be exchanging wings for the redesigned version? If so how long is the wait. Winter is here in Wisconsin and I can wait a little more for a better wing since this plane won't fly until spring.
Mike were you in Asia visiting the factory overseeing the new mods in person?
Thanks again for your response and great support.
Todd
Old 11-30-2004, 08:44 AM
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Default RE: Funtana 90 and CA hinges

The change was a simple running hange t the wing. We arent planning any exchange unless your wings that you received in your kit were broken. I believe in some cases the aileron servo pull out when the rub the servo rails attach to are either cracked in shipping or cracked when the servo was installed. Either way, they seemed to crack more easily than I would like to see so we made the change. Check your wings over to be sure they have no cracked ribs in that area, if they do, call in to our Priduct Support people.

I was at our factory in China yes, but the shipments of the F90 withthe revision had already shiped and was in stock here. I primarily go there to work on new projects and to make sure general quality is always going up.

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