Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Helicopters > Thunder Tiger - Raptor 30, 50, 60, 90
Reload this Page >

Raptor 30 V2 strips my servos

Notices

Raptor 30 V2 strips my servos

Old 09-04-2003, 08:40 PM
  #1  
voodoodrul
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (9)
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Lolo, MT
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Raptor 30 V2 strips my servos

I don't get it.. 3 times now I've had a Raptor 30 V2 strip my servos in mid flight. Needless to say, each time costs me a new heli. Anyone know why? Is this common? What can I do?
Old 09-04-2003, 09:04 PM
  #2  
basmntdweller
Senior Member
My Feedback: (9)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 1,752
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Raptor 30 V2 strips my servos

Very uncommon! More info needed. What servos are you using, what radio, battery pack etc. Which servos are getting stripped. There is a lot of load on the collective, cheapy servos won't hack it when throwing the heli around hard.
Some Hitec servos have really weak geartrains. If servos are good heli servos then I'd be looking for stuff either too stiff or you are trying to overdrive the mechanical limits of the heli.
Let us know a little more.
basmntdweller
Old 09-04-2003, 09:08 PM
  #3  
voodoodrul
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (9)
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Lolo, MT
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Raptor 30 V2 strips my servos

Futaba S9001 servos. Always strips the aileron and elevator servos. I've heard stories from local air clubs that the Raptors eat servos left and right and the only guys ever to fly them around here gave up after it did it to them.

I run the bundled Sanyo 1000 mah battery pack..

I did have a lot of throw on those servos (long servo arms) but a servo, regardless of binding, doesn't have enough strength on it's own to strip the servo. It needs to be fighting movement and then have that outside force exceed it's limits rapidly to strip.

Seems to strip the main output gear on the teeth that mesh with the very next gear.. or sometimes the rearmost gear in the case.
Old 09-04-2003, 10:08 PM
  #4  
basmntdweller
Senior Member
My Feedback: (9)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 1,752
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Raptor 30 V2 strips my servos

That's strange! I haven't had the 9001s in my raptor but have ran them in my Caliber 30 and Hawk sport without any trouble. I have Futaba 9202s in my Rappy 50 V2 but haven't had any trouble. Try runryder's site, you may find more info there. Many more rappy flyers frequent that site than here. I have not heard of this phenomenom before.
Let me know if you find out anything.
BTW, is this on a V1 and has it happened as a result of the "woof and poof" syndrome?
Good Luck,,,basmntdweller
Old 09-05-2003, 01:58 AM
  #5  
basmntdweller
Senior Member
My Feedback: (9)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 1,752
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Raptor 30 V2 strips my servos

I checked on RR and didn't find any similar problems. It makes me curious when something like that happens for no obvious reason. There was one thread I found where a guy sheared off the output shaft of two servos in one day. It was the collective servo on a Sceadu 50. No answer or solution was mentioned.
Later,,, basmntdweller
Old 09-08-2003, 08:51 PM
  #6  
djhighrise
Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Durham , NC
Posts: 38
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Raptor 30 V2 strips my servos

I wouldnt use no less than a 605 (hitec) or similar in a helicopter. There is just too much stress on it at all times not to have a Ball Bearing servo in it.
Old 09-09-2003, 01:07 AM
  #7  
pistole
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: JB, Malaysia, Asia.
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Raptor 30 V2 strips my servos

I am using simple Sanwa/Airtronics 102 servos on my Rap30V2 and have not had any problems at all.

What are you doing with your heli ?
Old 09-09-2003, 01:08 PM
  #8  
seaknight1962
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Milton, FL
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Raptor 30 V2 strips my servos

Hello All, I would like to know if the Futaba S9001's are adequate for the Raptor 30 V2? I have a Raptor 30 V2 still in the box along with a 9CHP & S9001 servos. Any and all help would be appreciated.

Seaknight
Old 09-13-2003, 07:24 PM
  #9  
basmntdweller
Senior Member
My Feedback: (9)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 1,752
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Raptor 30 V2 strips my servos

9001s are fine for entry level flying and mild 3d. I think they'd even be okay on aileron and elevator for pretty hard 3d but the pitch is going to need a stronger servo. I have flown my R50 for quite a while with 9202s and recently changed the pitch servo to a digital 9252. The digital gives a little edge but at this point in my experience it's not that much of an advantage.
Later,,,basmntdweller
Old 09-17-2003, 05:21 PM
  #10  
zaremba
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Elmhurst, IL
Posts: 104
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Raptor 30 V2 strips my servos

Whoa! I'm using Futaba S-148s, and so far so good...6 gallons and counting...
Old 09-17-2003, 07:02 PM
  #11  
basmntdweller
Senior Member
My Feedback: (9)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 1,752
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Raptor 30 V2 strips my servos

The 148s are okay, they just lose a lot of response when you start pushing the heli hard. I had 148s in my Hawk Sport to start wiht and after a while I started noticing that the pitch wasn't responding very fast when making a big pitch change. I swapped in a 9202 and it got responsive feeling to me. I got my R50 and started with 9202s in that and then they started seeming less responsive. Now it has a 9252 and it's keeping up with me now. As I got better and more demanding on the heli, the better servos were needed to maintain the feel that I wanted.
basmntdweller
Old 09-19-2003, 11:24 PM
  #12  
alvincfi
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Spring Park, MN
Posts: 61
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Raptor 30 V2 strips my servos

My first wreck on a V1 raptor was from a failed servo, more specifically r/l cyclic. I was using futaba 5101 servo's. The ball links are very tight on them and after loosening them up using a JR ball link tool I did not have any more probs. I noticed that this was also true on my R-60, but I'm thinking of maybe replacing all the links with somthing better, since its a larger 60 size.
Old 10-04-2003, 09:19 AM
  #13  
jwoolridge
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: St John\'s, NF, CANADA
Posts: 140
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Raptor 30 V2 strips my servos

You don't need super servos on a R30. People have been fying them here for years on JR 537's which is just a standard ball bearing servo. I flew the 537's for about 100 flights then put in a set of JR 811's. I have only seen a servo strip during a crash. Never seen one strip in the air. I servo should never be binding. It will drain your battery and if the binding was bad enough strip your servos. I would imagine your servos are either binding serverly and that causes them to strip or there striping in the crashes.
Old 10-04-2003, 12:04 PM
  #14  
voodoodrul
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (9)
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Lolo, MT
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Raptor 30 V2 strips my servos

Trust me, after losing the servos three times, I bought metal geared digital ones. The servos strip which is why I crash. I know how to fly. There is less binding than most Raptors because I've already gone over that idea. But when you lose a servo doing some tight moves to dogfight a plane you can watch the heli roll right to the ground.. it's stripping in flight. Besides, bindind to the extremes (even to the point the servo can't move at all) won't strip the servo. It needs some outside force to yank on the servo arm extremely hard to get it to strip.. So something strange is going on there.. I've never had this problem on other helis.

I'm not the only one this happens to. 2 other guys at the club fly Raptors (one is a V1, the other is V2) and they stripped servos in mid air too.. It might have something to do with the altitude here but I really think that's a wild ass guess.. Maybe the wood blades don't help (flex too much in the extremes and twist), but I know it's always the aileron that goes first.. The elevator may be dying in the crash itself, I'll give you that..

Either way, go with metal geared servos. When I hear conflicting news from one group (RCU) and the local guys, I'm going on the safe side.. Besides, the .10sec travel time and 120oz/torque really help my dogfights.. =o)

Note to self: quit being a cheap SOB and buy carbon blades.. It's about time..
Old 10-04-2003, 03:49 PM
  #15  
basmntdweller
Senior Member
My Feedback: (9)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 1,752
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Raptor 30 V2 strips my servos

It is possible that your blades are going out of track/lead-lag during exteme maneuvers and that could create enough force to snap some plastic gears. If the gears are stripping and you put in metal geared servos, what is the next weakest link? I had an old Nexus that from time to time would lose blade control and snap off a couple servos arms. It usually happened during spool up but it did happen once shutting down. My best guess was blades too loose. I run the blade bolt on my R50V2 pretty tight. It usually shakes pretty bad till the headspeed get pretty high till the lead-lag sets itself. After the first run-up I'm good for the day as the blades don't move after that.
This is my best guess as to what is happening since I have not heard of this much at all.
Good luck,,,basmntdweller
Old 10-05-2003, 12:48 AM
  #16  
voodoodrul
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (9)
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Lolo, MT
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Raptor 30 V2 strips my servos

Found the problem!

You'd have to see it, but if you tilt the swash plate for *both* aileron and elevator, the mixing levers can smash into the swash plate and shove the aileron pushrods with all of the force of the rotor head. That's the only thing that could have happened.. But only at extreme tilt.. A servo can't break itself, it's not strong enough.. but an outside force like that could. And that's why the aileron servo went because it only hits the aileron side of the swash plate because the mixing levers "squish" out at that point.

I've never seen a setup like this. Normally I have my radio configured for the most extreme 3D and tone it down, but with those crappy blades and the sharp aileron/elevator movement, it smashed the aileron servo. This is not a problem on any of my other helis, so it's an oversight on TT's part.. too bad this wasn't in the instructions..
Old 10-07-2003, 02:43 AM
  #17  
pistole
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: JB, Malaysia, Asia.
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Raptor 30 V2 strips my servos

It is not an oversight on TTR's part.

Its an oversight on your part.

I have never ever seen a servo strip in flight. The only reason that it would do so is if your have a bind somewhere. Binding on your cyclics when mixed with your collective pitch arm travel is evidence of builder error.

Do stop trying to BS us.

I am flying my Rap30V2 and doing mild 3D with 'el-cheapo' Sanwa/Airtronics SRM102 servos. These do not even have any Ball Bearings in them. I have never stripped any of them in flight.

The only time I have busted the servo gears in them is when I crashed a while back.

Cheers.
Old 10-07-2003, 08:10 AM
  #18  
voodoodrul
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (9)
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Lolo, MT
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Raptor 30 V2 strips my servos

pistole,

Do you not listen? THERE IS NO BINDING! That is quite obvious. Any moron would notice a servo screaming for mercy on pitch during setup. I toned it down until there was no binding during build. In looking further, the mixing levers can actually hit the swashplate.

The fact that the mixing levers can hit the swashplate under any condition is an oversight on TT's part. Shaving a small detent in the mixing lever arms would prevent this. And this condition is not possible on any of my other helis..

I'm done arguing the point. Either listen to the precaution or go away..

And for the last time.. Binding would never cause a servo to strip anyway. A servo isn't strong enough to strip its own gears. You need an outside force..

Thanks to those who made suggestions without believing they a) had all the answers and b) fully understood a situation they've never seen.

If I had a cam I could show you guys, but do take the time to see if your mixing arms get too close to the swash. Remember that servo force on the swash and slow response from the head could cause these two to hit even if they aren't already touching. Tilt full forward and full left. Spin the head until one of the mixing arms are facing the rear of the swash. Notice how close it gets and tone down from there.. I have about 15 degrees of tilt and nothing more on my setup now.. anything more than that and it will hit the swash.
Old 10-07-2003, 09:35 AM
  #19  
pistole
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: JB, Malaysia, Asia.
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Raptor 30 V2 strips my servos

More BS.

If you can induce your mixing levers on your washout to contact your swashplate you have some serious building problems.

Why don't you just read your manual again and rebuild your headunit and then we'll talk some more. Till then , enough about this 'problem' that NO ONE has ever had.
Old 10-07-2003, 01:56 PM
  #20  
voodoodrul
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (9)
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Lolo, MT
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Raptor 30 V2 strips my servos

Pistole,

All of these Raptors have been ARFs.. explain that..


I've had enough.. Learn to respect other people and ask the right questions before being the holy one and assuming it's impossible. I've built a lot of helis and have a technical engineering background.

Once again, thanks for the other's sugguestions.. Pistole needs to go elsewhere if he wants to preach and badger..
Old 10-08-2003, 07:50 AM
  #21  
Galifrey
Senior Member
 
Galifrey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Northants, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 1,194
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Raptor 30 V2 strips my servos

If you tilt the swashplate using full aileron and elevator then you WILL induce binding...

Its the same on any helicopter set up for full travel when you corner the cyclic stick..

Its why people like curtis use a cyclic limiter ring to prevent binding at corner stick..

If you have full travel limits set on your aileron and elevator so there is no binding you should NEVER corner the stick....

It will bind and it will break something...

If you do this with metal geared servos you will break something else fer sure...

Get yourself a cyclic limiter ring for your TX and you will eliminate the problem

Nothing wrong with TT design just the way its being used/has been setup

Old 10-08-2003, 11:03 AM
  #22  
pistole
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: JB, Malaysia, Asia.
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Raptor 30 V2 strips my servos

http://runryder.com/helicopter/p477423/#p477423
Old 10-08-2003, 11:57 AM
  #23  
Glenn in Den
Member
My Feedback: (22)
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mooresville, NC
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Raptor 30 V2 strips my servos

voodoodrul, you are being told the truth here. I recently learned of this "corner binding" phenomenon myself. I had it on both helis and didn't realize it. I don't know why the radio manufacturers don't deal with this. . . . when you realize what you're being told here, the light will come on and you'll say "OH YEAH, NOW I GET IT."

The radio stick moves in a square pattern. The swashplate is round. Imagine moving full right aileron and there is no binding. Now imagine full forward elevator and there is no binding. Now imagine that you can go BEYOND that full aileron and elevator point when you move the stick forward and right all the way!!! Of course it is going to bind. Something is wrong if it DOESN'T! There are three ways to deal with this:

1. Stay out of the corners. This is a tough-y for most, especially if you're new. You're already dealing with many thought processes and when there is a problem, instincts, whether good or bad, take over and there you are in the corner putting the serious brakes on your rotor.

2. Adjust your "end points" down so that no matter what, when you're in a corner, there is no binding. Of course you are toning down your machine's capabilities to the lowest common denominator. This will work but your end points will end up around 75 to 80 percent on each end. If you don't understand why this is bad, I can explain that under separate cover.

3. Buy or make a cyclic limiter ring. www.ronlund.com has them for $12. It is a piece of plastic you double stick tape to your radio's right stick. It still allows for FULL aileron and FULL elevator deflection. But just like the swashplate, it is round; it prevents you from going in any corner!

When I first thought about the limiter ring, I thought "hey - - that thing will limit my potential travel." But when I thought about round vs round and how the swashplate tilts vs how the radio stick moves, it makes perfect sense. It doesn't limit you AT ALL! In fact, it gives you back full motion if you used method 2 above to solve the binding.

I hope this helps.

Glenn in Den.
Old 10-08-2003, 12:22 PM
  #24  
Galifrey
Senior Member
 
Galifrey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Northants, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 1,194
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Raptor 30 V2 strips my servos

The way I like to think of it is if you have a coin and tilt to touch one edge on a table at 45 degrees you can do it...

But now try and touch 2 edges 90 degrees to each other...

The only way you can do it is if the portion of coin between the 2 points cuts into the table..

ie that point is travelling further than the 2 edges (at full travel) which are now touching the table...

I hope you can visualise this as it will help you immensely...

If you cant I can tell you that if you have 6 degrees of fore/aft and left/right cyclic.. using both at the same time will give you 8.5 degrees of cyclic in the corners...

Hence the binding

Old 10-08-2003, 12:26 PM
  #25  
voodoodrul
Thread Starter
My Feedback: (9)
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Lolo, MT
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Raptor 30 V2 strips my servos

Thanks for the advice Glenn, but as I've said numerous times it is not binding. My original setup was toned down to 50% less travel to prevent binding in all directions, including the corners. That's about 25 degrees of tilt. And the pitch servo screams bloody murder if it binds so you'd have to be pretty slow not to notice that while playing with the sticks during radio install.

There really isn't a reason to continue this thread anymore since I've identified the problem and solved it.

Side note: I bought another Raptor ARF for a friend and it does not even come close to tapping the mixing levers at full tilt, even when it would bind to the point the pitch arm can't move.. So I'm not sure what is going on..

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.