Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Helicopters > Thunder Tiger - Raptor 30, 50, 60, 90
Reload this Page >

Oiling groove In Auto Clutch. Raptor60

Notices

Oiling groove In Auto Clutch. Raptor60

Old 10-27-2006, 01:32 PM
  #1  
reaaz
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mississauga, ON, CANADA
Posts: 446
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default Oiling groove In Auto Clutch. Raptor60

well, it finally happened.... no not a crash, the Autoclutch (Torrington clutch) seized on me. locked up solid. seems all the triflow oil i was squirting on the top of it was not going in. So i took it apart & filed two opposing shallow oil grooves on the inside of the bronze bushing.

now when i squirt the oil on the top (by the circlip), it pools there but capillary action draws itinto the inside within a 1/2hour or so

I also filed two smaller oiling grooves on the lower bronze bushing so that oil also coats that "plain Jurnal bearing" surface.

It definitely seems to me that these clutches lock not because of the roller bearings, but because of bronze plain journal type bearings (that enclosing the torrington rollers) starving of lubrication! adding shallow oil grooves & using triflow oil before each flying day will keep it spinning!
Old 11-03-2006, 11:55 AM
  #2  
misileman
Senior Member
My Feedback: (8)
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Winamac, IN
Posts: 208
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Oiling groove In Auto Clutch. Raptor60

I've went through 3 of the auto clutches on my 60V2. Used Triflow, pure silicone grease, steel reinforcing ring, made sure they're the three bearing group/updated oneway, and polished the inner steel bushing. No matter what, they eventually locked up. I recently purchased the Quick UK auto hub designed with radial bearings instead of bronze bushings and a high quality "sprag bearing". I'm hoping for the best from this but have not put enough flight time on it as of yet (winter season). From the looks of it, I think this is the answer to the problem.

Good luck with the stock TT oneway but I think your fighting a loosing battle. I got frustrated and threw money at the problem.

Enjoy
Mike
Raptors 60V2 & 50SE
Futaba, OS, Fromeco Reg & Batt, Wildcat Fuels
Old 11-03-2006, 12:27 PM
  #3  
reaaz
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mississauga, ON, CANADA
Posts: 446
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Oiling groove In Auto Clutch. Raptor60

you know as you mension winter season... I'd hate to have to deal with that... lack of flying time etc... It rained last sunday here (trinidad in the caribbean) & i was pissed i missed out on my flying. But my, hardly any flying for a whole season! yikey
Old 11-08-2006, 02:22 PM
  #4  
misileman
Senior Member
My Feedback: (8)
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Winamac, IN
Posts: 208
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Oiling groove In Auto Clutch. Raptor60

Winter is a big setback for flying. That's why sims are selling so well and it gives me time to tear down the machines and do "the annual" so when flying season comes around again everything is like new for another season.
The upside is we appreciate warmer weather. I went flying last sunday afternoon during a warm spell, 55 degrees F and 15 to 20 mph winds. Needless to say I didn't fly for very long, hands swelled up from cold and wind kept me on my toes.
If there is a calm day when it's around 20 or 30 out and you can get the engine to light up, man does a heli fly good in those conditions, thick heavy air, cool enough to make the engine run great and the blades can cut the air better. Downside is plastic gets brittle when it's this cold so avoiding hard landings and crashing along with the frozen ground which is like concrete.

Back to the subject at hand, you might want to check out the QuickUK auto hub. I know several others that tried it and had very good things to say about it.

Later
Mike
Old 11-08-2006, 02:32 PM
  #5  
rjm1982
Senior Member
 
rjm1982's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chesapeake, VA
Posts: 1,117
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Oiling groove In Auto Clutch. Raptor60

Eh, weather isnt an excuse!

I got friends in greenland that fly year long and its like 50 on a hot day there...

The trick is to not let yourself fall into the habit of keeping your house at 80 degrees, temperature isnt the problem, its the change in temperature that is uncomfortable. Im in VA, so we get mild winters (lows in the 15s) and i still fly all winter long. I hardly fly planes because it stays cloudy (and the air get bumpy lower than the summer) but i still fly the heli.

I was out last weekend when it was in the 40s, and people were already talking about the end of the flying for the year...sheesh.
Old 11-09-2006, 06:59 AM
  #6  
reaaz
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mississauga, ON, CANADA
Posts: 446
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Oiling groove In Auto Clutch. Raptor60

well i'v taken 6flights since i added the oiling groove.. no lockups..yet. If it starts to misbehave again... i'll chuck it & try the QuickUK auto hub
Old 11-13-2006, 05:28 AM
  #7  
RTD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Oiling groove In Auto Clutch. Raptor60

hey reaaz, my R50 one-way bearing keeps locking up too. I have to apply quite a bit of force to the gear wheel to un-sieze it and then it spins very freely. If we're talking about the same problem, I'd really appreciate some more information, perhaps a picture too, of what you've done to keep it lubricated. thanks RTD
Old 11-13-2006, 07:33 AM
  #8  
reaaz
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mississauga, ON, CANADA
Posts: 446
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Oiling groove In Auto Clutch. Raptor60

well here are two quick (& badly done) sketches as to what to do to the clutch. So far I've had 2hrs on emm so far & smooth as ever (you just need to make sure to apply about 6drops of triflow oil 1/2hr before each flying day)
Just make two opposing grooves on the top on the inside of the clutch bearing with a TRIANGULAR needle file...... & ALSO make two opposing grooves below as well that are shallower then the top ones.
The reason to make a shallower groove undeneath is so that the oil that seeps through to the inside, will not seep out as fast as it came in! but you do need the grooves underneath so that the jurnal bearing will be coated in oil!


during the filling make sure you slightly angle the file so that it would not touch the rollers. You must not ever touch them. Thus start filling in a spot between two rollers!

Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Ki20644.jpg
Views:	7
Size:	32.9 KB
ID:	559360   Click image for larger version

Name:	Lg15475.jpg
Views:	5
Size:	40.0 KB
ID:	559361  
Old 11-13-2006, 02:59 PM
  #9  
brunobl
Senior Member
 
brunobl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: PomerodeSanta Catarina, BRAZIL
Posts: 221
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Oiling groove In Auto Clutch. Raptor60

ORIGINAL: reaaz

well here are two quick (& badly done) sketches as to what to do to the clutch.
Those are pretty good-looking drawings to me! Well done!

It is interesting that you brought this up. This is one point where Raptortechnique.com disagrees with the Raptor manual. Page 7 of the 50V2 manual says (referring to BK0034, the one-way clutch shaft): "Add some light weight oil before inserting this into BV0033" (the one-way clutch housing), while Raptortechnique says, "Note: Do not oil or lube the autorotation hub. There have been reported instances where this has caused the 'wah-wahs'".

I have recently reassembled this area (to check for a main gear small vertical play) and did as per Raptortechnique, no lube (had not yet seen your tip). I wonder if I should go back & add some oil?
Old 11-14-2006, 08:15 AM
  #10  
RTD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Melbourne, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Oiling groove In Auto Clutch. Raptor60

Reaaz,
Thankyou for the drawings and description.
Raptor Technique site does recomend Triflow oil as lubricant for the one-way clutch (http://www.raptortechnique.com/lubrication.htm) and your simple modification makes the procedure very easy. Many thanks for sharing your idea.
Cheers
RTD
Old 11-14-2006, 10:43 AM
  #11  
brunobl
Senior Member
 
brunobl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: PomerodeSanta Catarina, BRAZIL
Posts: 221
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Oiling groove In Auto Clutch. Raptor60

ORIGINAL: RTD
Raptor Technique site does recomend Triflow oil as lubricant for the one-way clutch (http://www.raptortechnique.com/lubrication.htm
Very true. But it also says not to lube it here:
http://www.raptortechnique.com/manua...-50_page10.htm
Specifically he tells us not to lube the auto hub. This is in the PDF version of his assembly manual as well.

From the two pieces of information, I think he means it should not be lubed to avoid the 'wah-wahs', unless you have the auto hub sticking issue, in which case he recommends lubing with tri-flow.

Old 11-16-2006, 05:23 PM
  #12  
brunobl
Senior Member
 
brunobl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: PomerodeSanta Catarina, BRAZIL
Posts: 221
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Oiling groove In Auto Clutch. Raptor60

ORIGINAL: brunobl

ORIGINAL: RTD
Raptor Technique site does recomend Triflow oil as lubricant for the one-way clutch (http://www.raptortechnique.com/lubrication.htm
Very true. But it also says not to lube it here:
http://www.raptortechnique.com/manua...-50_page10.htm
Specifically he tells us not to lube the auto hub. This is in the PDF version of his assembly manual as well.

From the two pieces of information, I think he means it should not be lubed to avoid the 'wah-wahs', unless you have the auto hub sticking issue, in which case he recommends lubing with tri-flow.
I asked Michael (Raptortechnique author) about this and as a result he changed the wording slightly in the affected site page (Raptor 30/50V2 assembly manual page 10, as above). May be worth a visit.
Old 11-21-2006, 12:42 AM
  #13  
reaaz
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mississauga, ON, CANADA
Posts: 446
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Oiling groove In Auto Clutch. Raptor60

thats for the 30-50 raptor... what about the raptor 60?
Old 11-21-2006, 12:59 AM
  #14  
reaaz
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mississauga, ON, CANADA
Posts: 446
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Oiling groove In Auto Clutch. Raptor60

well i checked with his site & the wording he used "Note: Do not add addition oil or lube to the autorotation hub. I run mine nearly dry, just a thin film of oil in the needle bearings. There have been reported instances where this has caused the 'wah-wahs"

So i guess i'm still doing the right thing by making those oiling grooves, cuz the triflow would not get into the needle bearings otherwise!

About the top grooves, i suggest you add 4grooves on the top as it takes a little longer now for the oil to "wick" into the inside(needle bearings & lower jurnal bearing) maybe because of wear deposits bulding up in the groove channel! maybe add two more on the lower on also!
But its been performing flawlessly Since the mod, spins reallly really easily in one direction & locks solid in the other.. now that is a good clutch!! lol
By the way, does anyone want to know exactly "how" this type of clutch works?
Old 11-21-2006, 01:15 AM
  #15  
reaaz
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mississauga, ON, CANADA
Posts: 446
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Oiling groove In Auto Clutch. Raptor60

Just was checking raptortechnique site, here something i found on the past tips page:
"Tip: (contributed by Kerry Neil) Cleaning your helicopter is a good idea but be careful what you use. A flying buddy recently had problems with the auto hub locking up solid! After a lot of effort to remove it, the problem was discovered. The cleaning fluid he used got in the auto hub and rusted the bearings to the sleeve. Cleaning the helicopter is good but try not to spray any bearings. It is best to spray the rag then wipe the helicopter"
Old 11-22-2006, 05:22 AM
  #16  
brunobl
Senior Member
 
brunobl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: PomerodeSanta Catarina, BRAZIL
Posts: 221
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Oiling groove In Auto Clutch. Raptor60

ORIGINAL: reaaz

Just was checking raptortechnique site, here something i found on the past tips page:
"Tip: (contributed by Kerry Neil) Cleaning your helicopter is a good idea but be careful what you use. A flying buddy recently had problems with the auto hub locking up solid! After a lot of effort to remove it, the problem was discovered. The cleaning fluid he used got in the auto hub and rusted the bearings to the sleeve. Cleaning the helicopter is good but try not to spray any bearings. It is best to spray the rag then wipe the helicopter"
Excellent tip. I was not aware of that.

As for the one way bearing, Here is how I see it (can't quite remember if I read this somewhere or if it's just my own guesswork, so take it with a grain of salt:

Each one of the little rollers (green) is anchored to the outer casing (light grey) through an off-centered axis (yellow), so they only rotate freely a few degrees before being jammed by inner axle (dark grey) if it moves in the wrong direction. In the other direction they naturally move outward a little so the axle is free to spin.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Xv64851.jpg
Views:	4
Size:	16.0 KB
ID:	564789  
Old 12-01-2006, 09:07 AM
  #17  
reaaz
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Mississauga, ON, CANADA
Posts: 446
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Oiling groove In Auto Clutch. Raptor60

brunoble, yes your right in the working of the clutch, i suspect that particular design is used on much bigger clutches.

I made two sketches, the first with the clutch freewheeling & the other with the clutch locked.
if you watch closely, the outer sleeve "cups"each roller but one side of the cup has a ramp or wedge.

what happens is that if you rotate in one direction, the roller just spins in the cup, however if the direction of rotation is reversed... the roller will attempt to "roll" up the slope of the ramp.

Because the ramp effectivly reduces the gap between the outer sleeve & the inner shaft.. the roller jambs against it locking the inner shaft to the sleeve/gear ring.
because there are some many rollers in the assembly, they really hold very very well. So that it basically for this type of compact on way clutch!
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Qo41451.jpg
Views:	7
Size:	30.2 KB
ID:	569857   Click image for larger version

Name:	Kf13848.jpg
Views:	7
Size:	16.4 KB
ID:	569858  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.