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-   Thunder Tiger - Raptor 30, 50, 60, 90 (https://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/thunder-tiger-raptor-30-50-60-90-218/)
-   -   raptor 30 or go to 50? (https://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/thunder-tiger-raptor-30-50-60-90-218/205188-raptor-30-go-50-a.html)

pepito9 07-23-2002 03:00 PM

raptor 30 or go to 50?
 
hi guys,
i have a raptor 30 that i am getting comfortable with, i am getting into FF and circuits, they are not pretty but getting there, living outside the US i have built quite a stock of spare parts just in case, maybe a hundred dollarŽs worth. all the basic crash repair stuff.

i want to get a second heli for a backup and i am thinking about another 30.

but..... that 50 sure looks nice.....:)
having a second one, i believe will let me push the one i have a little harder

at the moment i have only enough servos for one heli and only one gyro.

what should i do? i am quite anxious to get a second one but i donŽt know what to do......

should i stay with 30s or start moving up to 50s and really wring out the 30?

thanks,

diego

Furyflyer2 07-23-2002 03:04 PM

raptor 30 or go to 50?
 
IMO , if you want to stay with that size heli go for the the 50 it has very good power for 3-D flying. You already have a raptor so you can share the parts between the two.

syclic 07-23-2002 03:52 PM

30 or 50
 
Now that you have had some experience I would suggest going for a 50. What 50?

Check out the review at the top of this forum that Kirk is doing on the Falcon 50 SEV2 and you will better understand why I strongly recommend it over any others.

This heli has a power to weight ratio far better then most 60's, a light disc loading to give it as good or better auto performance then most 60's, is a quality machine that is well designed , has a precision control system that remains very slop free forever and can easily be set up for any style flying you desire. The Carbon Fiber torque tube drive system and triple bearinged tail rotor make it fly like a 60 in hard backward maneuvers. Truely the best of all worlds.

What? Only $400 for a kit that also includes 600mm composite blades, a slipper clutch with an optional constant tail drive available for only $45! One that will remain slop free and perform everything without any upgrades!

Take a serious look at it. You will love it. Mine has become the helicopter that always comes to the field with me while my expensive 60's and other 30's and 46's collect dust.

Hitch-Hiker 07-24-2002 12:07 AM

raptor 30 or go to 50?
 
Diego,

If your looking at the raptor 50 over the raptor 30, Go for the 50! It will be a compliment to your 30 that you already have a bunch of parts for.

Do a search on this board and you will see all the advantages of the 50 kit.

My last 50 kit, I built in 2 evenings, and had it out flying the next day! Easy to build, Easy to maintain, Easy to fix.

Jeff S.

flmgrip 07-24-2002 05:37 AM

Re: 30 or 50
 

Originally posted by syclic
Now that you have had some experience I would suggest going for a 50. What 50?

Check out the review at the top of this forum that Kirk is doing on the Falcon 50 SEV2 and you will better understand why I strongly recommend it over any others.

This heli has a power to weight ratio far better then most 60's, a light disc loading to give it as good or better auto performance then most 60's, is a quality machine that is well designed , has a precision control system that remains very slop free forever and can easily be set up for any style flying you desire. The Carbon Fiber torque tube drive system and triple bearinged tail rotor make it fly like a 60 in hard backward maneuvers. Truely the best of all worlds.

What? Only $400 for a kit that also includes 600mm composite blades, a slipper clutch with an optional constant tail drive available for only $45! One that will remain slop free and perform everything without any upgrades!

Take a serious look at it. You will love it. Mine has become the helicopter that always comes to the field with me while my expensive 60's and other 30's and 46's collect dust.

what is up with you guys not reading the original post? this guy is asking if he should get an other raptor 30 or a raptor 50. why? because i am sure it is not easy to get spare parts around the corner. don't try to sell him an other type of heli (with a complete new set of spare parts) just answer the darn question :)

so:

consider a 46 instead of a 50. why? it's cheaper to buy and cheaper in fuel consumption. i had both in my R50. power difference is not that much, BUT flight time is...
i really would not bother with an other 30... you will outgrow it eventually:)

pepito9 07-24-2002 01:19 PM

raptor 30 or go to 50?
 
thanks guys,
as i understand it "most" of the parts i have in stock fit both the 30 and the 50.

what i donŽt want to do is waste my spares when i get hooked on the larger heli, also i am alone as far as heli flying goes down here so there is no chance of swapping or selling them.

thanks again, and iŽll be getting a raptor 50 soon.

diego

manilaheli 07-24-2002 01:49 PM

raptor 30 or go to 50?
 
Just consider the fuel costs when running the 50. Since you live outside the U.S. (same as me), fuel isn't as cheap as it is in the U.S.

Plus, if you're just beginning circuits the 50 won't make it better. I suggest you defer the purchase UNTIL you are sick of flying circuits and need the extra power for loops, rolls, stalls and flips. Other than that, the 30 is fine.

Pete OConnor 07-25-2002 09:35 AM

Re: raptor 30 or go to 50?
 

Originally posted by pepito9
should i stay with 30s or start moving up to 50s and really wring out the 30?
diego

IMO, I'd stay with the 30. As soon as you go to the 50 the price of blades really jumps. And, because of that, the price of crashing really increases. Furthermore, as you are not a "too good" pilot just yet, the 30 will actually improve your ability compared to a 50. And in this day and age, when ability has been shortcut for shear power, the 30 is a great choice to continue learning. While a good machine, the 50 doesn't force you learn good technique, which the 30 does.
Pete O'Connor

rotordoc 07-25-2002 07:26 PM

raptor 30 or go to 50?
 
flmgrip

I found nothing wrong with syclic's post re: the Century Falcon SE.
The question was "Raptor 30 or go to 50" ...not "...or should I go Raptor 50?"

He even goes further and gives very clear reasons why. What more can one ask for from an answer?

Please note: Syclic's opening statement in answer to the question:" Now that you have some experience, I would suggest going to a 50. What 50?" Then he suggests checking Kirks review on the Falcon SE.

I can find nothing wrong with that. Even less wrong with it considering your opening remarks about your disapointment in your R-50 in the Forum "3D out of the Box". In fact I know from experience with both that the Falcon SEV2 is very 3-D out of the box and has no "issues" when setting it up to do so or none even develop later when doing so over a long period of time.

Pete OConnor 07-25-2002 09:51 PM

Re: Re: 30 or 50
 

Originally posted by flmgrip


consider a 46 instead of a 50. why? it's cheaper to buy and cheaper in fuel consumption. i had both in my R50. power difference is not that much, BUT flight time is...
i really would not bother with an other 30... you will outgrow it eventually:)

Could you please let me know what the stock machine won't do, other than extreme "power" stunts. At the moment, I can't seem to find anything my machine won't do.
Thanks,
Pete

Furyflyer2 07-25-2002 11:08 PM

raptor 30 or go to 50?
 
How about a climbing tick toc or a piroueting vertical figure eight ?

=XGC= OzZ 07-25-2002 11:35 PM

raptor 30 or go to 50?
 
:p

Pete OConnor 07-25-2002 11:54 PM

Great indicator for learning 3D
 

Originally posted by Furyflyer2
How about a climbing tick toc or a piroueting vertical figure eight ?

Hey, they are good maneuvers, but aren't those "high powered" stunts, which I mentioned to exempt from the list. Also, doesn't that take the average flyer a lot of time to learn them.
Actually, to help everyone out, as a reference, how long has it taken you to learn either one of those fairly well?
Ya know, let's just stay with the basics. How long did it take you to learn the basics like figure eights backward, inverted, and backward inverted, low level "airplane style" flying?
Pete

Scotty740 07-26-2002 12:04 AM

Re: Re: raptor 30 or go to 50?
 

Originally posted by Pete O'Connor


IMO, I'd stay with the 30. As soon as you go to the 50 the price of blades really jumps. And, because of that, the price of crashing really increases. Furthermore, as you are not a "too good" pilot just yet, the 30 will actually improve your ability compared to a 50. And in this day and age, when ability has been shortcut for shear power, the 30 is a great choice to continue learning. While a good machine, the 50 doesn't force you learn good technique, which the 30 does.
Pete O'Connor

I really agree with Pete here. Learning aerobatics and some 3D on the 30 size will really teach you throttle and cyclic management to pull off the stunts. I have 3 50s, not Raptors BTW, and they have the power to pull off about anything. It makes one tend to get sloppy. I use my Raptor 30s to learn and perfect new stunts and flying techniques. It really makes them easy then with the 50s.

I find there isn't much that I can't do with my almost stock, KSJ paddles and glass blades, Raptor if it is set up right.

If you do go with a 50 hang on to the 30 for training and practice purposes.

Pete OConnor 07-26-2002 12:31 AM

Re: Re: Re: raptor 30 or go to 50?
 

Originally posted by Scotty740


I really agree with Pete here. Learning aerobatics and some 3D on the 30 size will really teach you throttle and cyclic management to pull off the stunts. I have 3 50s, not Raptors BTW, and they have the power to pull off about anything. It makes one tend to get sloppy. I use my Raptor 30s to learn and perfect new stunts and flying techniques. It really makes them easy then with the 50s.

I find there isn't much that I can't do with my almost stock, KSJ paddles and glass blades, Raptor if it is set up right.

If you do go with a 50 hang on to the 30 for training and practice purposes.

Yes, I agree, too. I have nothing against the 50's, :D a but long time ago ;) we had the same problem in motocross. Guy's would jump to big machines before there mastered the 125's. Very quickly they started losing races. They went back the 125 and learned how to corner and then jumped back on the 500's and started winning again.
Actually, it's not that "I know it all", it's just that after 46 years in the hobby, even a dumb guy like me learns how to do it. :D
Pete

pepito9 07-26-2002 01:49 AM

raptor 30 or go to 50?
 
iŽll have to agree with your views, staying with the 30 seems the correct thing to do.

i think iŽll get a "backup" 30 instead of the 50.

thanks,
diego

Pete OConnor 07-26-2002 02:02 AM

raptor 30 or go to 50?
 

Originally posted by pepito9
iŽll have to agree with your views, staying with the 30 seems the correct thing to do.

i think iŽll get a "backup" 30 instead of the 50.

thanks,
diego

FWIW, and Steve and Paul may agree, the stock machine can perform quite a lot. At my level, the stock machine is capable of all aspects of frontwards, backward, inverted, and backward inverted flight. Also, it has no problem with stationary, traveling, and walking flips. In addition, inverted autos, looping autos, deathspins, tail slides, asymmetrical loops, backward loops, moon walking, sideways loops, and "mild tornadoes are possible, too.
As I mentioned the higher powered maneuvers are best left to the 50 size machine.
Pete

helitroll 07-26-2002 02:40 AM

2nd heli
 
If you are flying one 30, I would go for the Raptor 50 as a second ship. The 30 is fine for all but autos. I actually went from the Raptor 30 to the Freya. That is what I learned to do autos on. I would try new manuevers on the 30 and then go to the Freya. I later went to a Scaedu 50 as my training platform before doing manuevers on the Freya. I love the Scaedu 50. But with parts in the drawer, go with the Raptor 50. I ended up re-kitting my Raptor so badly that I finally just sold it for parts. I see no advantage to 2 of the same. Good luck. Obviously you are doing fine with your choices so far.

flmgrip 07-26-2002 05:00 AM

raptor 30 or go to 50?
 

Originally posted by rotordoc
flmgrip

I found nothing wrong with syclic's post re: the Century Falcon SE.
The question was "Raptor 30 or go to 50" ...not "...or should I go Raptor 50?"

He even goes further and gives very clear reasons why. What more can one ask for from an answer?

Please note: Syclic's opening statement in answer to the question:" Now that you have some experience, I would suggest going to a 50. What 50?" Then he suggests checking Kirks review on the Falcon SE.

I can find nothing wrong with that. Even less wrong with it considering your opening remarks about your disapointment in your R-50 in the Forum "3D out of the Box". In fact I know from experience with both that the Falcon SEV2 is very 3-D out of the box and has no "issues" when setting it up to do so or none even develop later when doing so over a long period of time.

pepto confirmed that he want's to stay with a raptor because of spare parts. that's all there is to say... :)

in regards to my thread "3D out of the box": while that thread was possible titled a bit wrong, i had and still have issues with the raptor... :) but you alway get what you pay for and i do not want to dig up all those issues... one of the main ones is a "build in expo" in the swash plate and poor customer service. i still fly my R50 and have a blast doing so as with any other heli i own...
as with issues of one heli and an other, that is all very personal experience and it's all good:)
the only true issue free heli i have owned so far is the fury extreme. but if you send me a falcon ship i'd love to fly it and maybe i have to ad it to the list :)

cheers

flmgrip 07-26-2002 05:03 AM

Re: Re: Re: 30 or 50
 

Originally posted by Pete O'Connor


Could you please let me know what the stock machine won't do, other than extreme "power" stunts. At the moment, I can't seem to find anything my machine won't do.
Thanks,
Pete

any machine (regardless of brand) will do any stunt if there is enough power. so EVERY heli is 3D out of the box.
it is just a question for how long and how precise... :)

flmgrip 07-26-2002 05:12 AM

Re: Re: Re: raptor 30 or go to 50?
 

Originally posted by Scotty740


I really agree with Pete here. Learning aerobatics and some 3D on the 30 size will really teach you throttle and cyclic management to pull off the stunts. I have 3 50s, not Raptors BTW, and they have the power to pull off about anything. It makes one tend to get sloppy.

while i somewhat agree, i have to go a little against the flow and tell you that flying stunts and maneuvers with a power house (like my extreme) are not really easier to fly. while you have plenty of power to do whatever you like, you really have to manage and control it, even more than with a smaller machine. the shear endless power can work really fast against you :) so the stick input has to be more precise to do smooth maneuvers. so slamming a full negative pitch for e.g in a roll on a 30 or 50 will give you a funny looking roll, doing the same on the extreme will make it a huge egg roll, if you still can call it a roll...
but that's just my personal experience and maybe i am doing it all wrong :(

Pete OConnor 07-26-2002 10:31 AM

Re: Re: Re: Re: raptor 30 or go to 50?
 

Originally posted by flmgrip


while i somewhat agree, i have to go a little against the flow and tell you that flying stunts and maneuvers with a power house (like my extreme) are not really easier to fly. while you have plenty of power to do whatever you like, you really have to manage and control it, even more than with a smaller machine. the shear endless power can work really fast against you :) so the stick input has to be more precise to do smooth maneuvers. so slamming a full negative pitch for e.g in a roll on a 30 or 50 will give you a funny looking roll, doing the same on the extreme will make it a huge egg roll, if you still can call it a roll...
but that's just my personal experience and maybe i am doing it all wrong :(

Naturally this is correct and goes without saying, in the case of much more power. However, in a stock 30 "slamming full negative" or improper cyclic management besides looking funny, would in some instances, result in a bogging motor, loss of tail control and a crash. Finally, with an "extreme" powered machine "slamming full negative" with incorrect cyclic does not always make a hugh roll, but instead stalls a blade and ends with the pilot wondering why his overpowered machine crashed.
Pete

flmgrip 07-27-2002 02:08 AM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: raptor 30 or go to 50?
 

Originally posted by Pete O'Connor


Naturally this is correct and goes without saying, in the case of much more power. However, in a stock 30 "slamming full negative" or improper cyclic management besides looking funny, would in some instances, result in a bogging motor, loss of tail control and a crash. Finally, with an "extreme" powered machine "slamming full negative" with incorrect cyclic does not always make a hugh roll, but instead stalls a blade and ends with the pilot wondering why his overpowered machine crashed.
Pete

yes :) agreed

Pete OConnor 07-27-2002 03:12 AM

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: raptor 30 or go to 50?
 

Originally posted by flmgrip


yes :) agreed

And, I'm sure we both can get silly sighting "what if's and should be's" about power. ;) ;) For instance, if you are experienced enough to put in a big motor, you should resize the blades to absorb the power correctly. Ah, but then we'd all have the expertise of Curtis and Cliff rolled into one :p
Pete

Hitch-Hiker 07-29-2002 08:13 PM

raptor 30 or go to 50?
 
Just a thought here....

Back to pepito9's decision of the R30 or R50 for the backup ship...

Why hasn't anyone suggested that he could get the 50 kit which includes alot of updates and upgrades over the 30 kit for just a few more bucks, then build it as a long boom 30 machine? He would be able to have his cake and eat it too?!? He would need what, gears for the 30, motor mount, 30 size blades..

A few guys in our club did this same deal.

What ya think?

Jeff S.


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