Hi folks , can anyone help me please , what is Klass Kote reducer ? i.e. , is it cellulose thinner , ipa , methalated spirits , alchohol etc

The web site suggests laquer thinner but i'm afraid i'm a brit and am not familiar with that term [&o], can anyone tell me what Klass Kote thinner is in british terminology

Many thanks , Dave

Klass Kote calls it an Epoxy Reducer "Reducer #500." The lable says it contains XYLENE. Interestingly
enough they also sell a thinner for the old K&B Super Ppoxy. Reducer #550. Good luck, Greg

Lacquer thinner is common here in the US. It is used for thinning lacquer coatings and epoxies. From the label, "Contains methyl alcohol, toluene, acetone, ethyl acetate, ethylene glycol, monobutyl ether, and petroleum distillates."

I know Nate Dickerson from Klass Kote paints recommends using the Klass Kote reducer for thinning it for spraying but says you can use lacquer thinner for cleanup. That's how I do it and it works well. I'm not sure I would want to risk using anything else after spending so much time getting the model to the point of spraying it. just my opinion though.

Cellulose should be lacquer. Nitrocellulose lacquer and acrylic lacquer are the common types. Although though the term cellulose points to the nitrocellulose, it is probably more slang now. Acrylic is probably what they mean as the nitrocellulose type is all but phased out in the last 20 years and only was used for pre war car restoration even then. I will also throw a wrench in it or spanner for you. The lacquer thinner that they are recommending is probably the hardware store variety not the auto type. Quality and purity for the auto type, because of the large investment a car paint job is, may make a slight chemistry difference which may be what KK wants. Clear as mud.

Thank's for all the thought's , i am going to try a small sample of cellulose thinners with klass kote and see how it react,s , i'll let you know , Dave

Eagerly awaiting your results.

This is in no way disrespecting GlassKote, but most all hobby paints are repackaged products. An example, since they are no longer available, K&B Super Poxy was actually Dupont Paint called Emron. It was an industrial epoxy paint mostly used to paint full size aircraft , commercial trucks and used extensively by Bell Helicopter. Even though K&B didn't need to be reduced, any automotive polyeurathane reducer worked well and clean up was lacquer thinner.

GlassKote is a great product and available in small quantities, where as automotive eurathanes are generally sold in U.S. Gallons.

Frank

I believe there is some misinformation it the previous post. I want to be as polite as possible, so I am asking for some facts to back up the the above statements. Having said that I would like to share the
information that I know about these products.

Klass Kote (spelled with a K and not a G) is a special line of epoxy paints made by Diversified Solutions, LLC for model builders. The company's primary business is making industrial coatings. Klass Kote is a small portion of their business. The K&B Super Poxy line of paint is not Imron paint, a Dupont product. Note that the spelling is Imron, and not Emron. The source of K&B Super Poxy was a paint manufacturer from Washington state, and their primary business was supplying aircraft paints. Years ago I saw paint samples at K&B in the manufacturers cans, with their name on the cans. Since I am not certain of correctly remembering that manufacturers name, and at the risk of getting it wrong, I would rather not take a chance of incorrectly identifying them. Even though the EPA eventually made K&B change their paint to something that was less of a health hazzard, Imron is far more dangerous, and always has been more dangerous. Imron should only be sprayed by someone wearing an air feed respirator.

The manufacturers of these paints put a lot of time and resources into the developement of modern paint products. Substituting thinners and reducers is asking for problems. Using cheaper products for cleanup may work, but I've found that frequently my guns don't get as clean. Recently I painted a fiberglass wingtip for
a full scale Blanik sailplane with Klass Kote, and the results were amazing, and the owners were thrilled with the results. I also painted a 42" fiberglass strut with Klass Kote that is going in a multi million dollar wind tunnel in Europe. Over the years I paint many gallons of K&B Super Poxy, and I still have a dozen or so cans. I've also painted several Dupont products, including Imron, which I still have some of. There are many substitutions that can be made with modern paint products, but if you decide to experiment, by all means do a trial to test to make sure it works. Finally let me give two examples of what can go wrong. I substituted laquer thinner in some clear epoxy paint, and because I sprayed it on a day when the humidity was very high the paint turned milky or cloudy. Had it been a dry day, I probably would have gotten away with the substitution. You may have read that Klass Kote catalyst can be used in K&B Super Poxy paint, and it can, and it will dry, but it won't be fuel proof, and thinner proof. Guess how I know? The important thing to remember is if you are mixing different paint products together, or experimenting with different thinners, then do a TRIAL to prove compatibility, and satisfactory results. Good luck, Greg

The stinker for foreign users of US products like Klass Kote is they cant get the things like thinners shipped because of HAZMAT. That is why they are looking for alternatives. We forget how good we have it sometimes. Same with the scale paint Mick Reeves sells, cant ship the thinner but can ship the paint.

This may be, but isn't it the importer's responsibility to market suitable thinners for the products that they sell ?

I would contact the importer. If he sells a usable product, I'd buy it. If he doesn't, I'd find out what he recommends, and if he'll warranty the paint, if I use it.

I have had the same thing happen with K&B with laquer thinner and it was not humid at all.

Interesting note about the Klass Kote and K&B. I mixed some old K&B a few weeks ago, sprayed it and it looked great. The problem is that it never cured. It stayed rubbery. I tried heat, time, etc and it never cured. I made some more measuring EXACTLY and making sure I stirred completely and the same thing happened. It did cure a bit harder, but it was not fuel proof and laquer thinner would wipe it away like water on fresh latex.

Lots of helpful information on this thread! I used Klasskote paints on my recent build and when I ran low on reducer I re-ordered directly from Klasskote. I am glad I did not try to substitute their reducer with another product from my local paint store.

-Ed B.

<span style="font-family: Verdana, Arial; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgb(251, 252, 255);">Klass Kote (spelled with a K and not a G) is a special line of epoxy paints made by Diversified Solutions, LLC for model builders. The company's primary business is making industrial coatings. </span><div><span style="font-family: Verdana, Arial; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgb(251, 252, 255);">
</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Verdana, Arial; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgb(251, 252, 255);">
</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Verdana, Arial; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgb(251, 252, 255);">The source of K&amp;B Super Poxy was a paint manufacturer from Washington state, and their primary business was supplying aircraft paints. Years ago I saw paint samples at K&amp;B in the manufacturers cans, with their name on the cans. Since I am not certain of correctly remembering that manufacturers name, and at the risk of getting it wrong, I would rather not take a chance of incorrectly identifying them. </span></div><div><span style="font-family: Verdana, Arial; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgb(251, 252, 255);">
</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Verdana, Arial; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgb(251, 252, 255);">Isn't  above  what I said?    </span></div><div><span style="font-family: Verdana, Arial; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgb(251, 252, 255);">
</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Verdana, Arial; font-size: 13px; background-color: rgb(251, 252, 255);">You said it yourself,   both   companies make industrial coatings and their hobby paints are   side lines.      And  Yes,   K &amp;  B Super Poxy was    Imron paint.   K &amp; B  did not manufacture paint.   </span></div>

JeffH, I've experienced the same problem with 'old' K&B Super Poxy not curing. At first I suspected the paint, but now I believe that the catalyst is what has gone bad. My solution for this problem was to over coat with a good clear paint, such as Klass Kote, Dupont Chroma Base clear, or PPG clear. In fact, when I painted an airplane with K&B Supper Poxy, that I catalized with Klass Kote catalyst, I just overcoated with a good clear. Greg

Hi gent's , i have read and taken in and valued all of your comment's , i have now painted the main wing and have some observations but first i thought i should quantify my origional question re. thinners .

I am an engineer by trade - a toolmaker - i like to make things like guitars and building and flying radio controlled model aircraft , i enjoy buiding model's as opposed to purchasing artf's (but thats a whole nother topic !) , i also paint my model's although i am no painter !

In the good old day's i used nitrocellulose car paint's , these were a delight to use , quite cheap , any colour could be easily mixed and thinning was very forgiving , if a mistake or run was experienced only half an hour or so drying time was needed before i could wet and dry back and then re spray - fantastic .

As cellulose was slowly fazed out i try'ed Klass Kote on a few models with satisfying results , i enjoyed the fact that the entire paint job was fuel proof and not just the clear coat as in other methods.

What i found difficult / frustrating was working with such small volumes of paint due to cost and waste (only mixing what was estimated volume for job) , i even bought a couple of different sized gravity fed spay guns to use the available paint efficiently .

I like Klass Kote as a product and appreciate the fact that my UK supplier has to put his money up front to carry stock , thinners however i look upon as a consumable as opposed to paint and catallist that i feel are matched .

I appreciate that the thinner used must be compatable with the paint product but here's my point (forgive my honesty here) -
somewhere in the industrial world the very same "liquid"/ thinner is used in bulk , be it for paint , carpet / shoe production processes , who knows ! but you can bet you can buy a oil drum sized tin of it for a tenth of the price of anything pint sized with "RC model use " written on it , RC jet double it again ! , in the UK due to health and safety issues dangerous liquid's can only be sent by courier - not posted thus the shipping is more than the product .

Again forgive me - the wing - i mixed same amount's of dark blue Klass Kote and satin catalist , left for half an hour and thinned with nitrocellulose thinner, i sprayed outside as i dont like like overspray in my work shop , the paint and thinner mixed very well and after spraying a short time elected to thin the mixture further .

Thr finish was not as good from the gun as with previous model's using Klass Kote reducer , however good adhesion and colour were achieved but slightly rough to the touch (after thirty minuite or so )

My conclusion was the paint mixture was reaching the wing too dry , i feel that the nitrocellulose thinner i was using was possibly a particularly quick drying type and although the outside enviroment was not unsympathetic to spraying it possibly further encouraged the evaporation of the thinner content of the paint mix on leaving the gun .

I lightly wet and dry'ed the paint job after a day or so as on previous models to achieve a very good finish , slightly weathered look and have to say i am am pleased with the overall effect , i must admit that if i had intended a gloss finish with apprpriate catalist i would want a superior finish from the gun but also believe with a better quality / slower drying cellulose thinner the paint would indeed have time to "lay" and settle on the component to give a better quality of gun finish .

I now have the fuselage to paint and will try further modifications to my process to see if an improvement can be achieved ,

I have to thank you all for your words of wisdom and i appreciate some of you will be offended by what would seem my mean'ness over the thinners but it's a component that i find variable during a paint exersise and when the shipping is more than the material i find it best to source an alternative .

Very many thank's , Dave

Hi , couple of pic's previous Klass Kote projects

Klass Kote is a very nice product and works very well for it's intended use. Your planes look great!! Very well done.


As for the thinner you used on this last plane is Lacquer thinner. There are several grades. Some flash sooner than others. There are retarders that you can get to slow it down even more.

If you have an automotive paint supply near you, you can get polyeurathane reducers that will do the job better than lacquer thinner. They come in three grades such as slow, medium and fast. Slow is the slow setting and is used in warm humid weather. The fast is used in cold weather.

I stopped using epoxy hobby paints years ago and moved to automotive paints known as base coat / clear coat. There is even an additive for a dull finish. And I still use silk and dope finishes too.

Frank

Thank you Frank , i will indeed ask my car paint shop about the polyeurathane item for future projects , i will however stick to nitro for my fuselage so it matches the wing i have just completed .

I am happy that with everyones help i have discovered viable alternative,s .

I to in the past have used car base coat and two pack clear , it was very convenient as i got the paint shop to mix me base coat aerosol's for colour's and got a freind to clear coat all the parts for me .

I'm glad i dont have time to build too many model's , i would enjoy spraying much more if i have a dedicated enviroment to do it in but i have only a humble home and workshop and due to some car engine preparation i do with my work i like to keep the workshop as dust free as posible .

I used to be involved with drag racing / hot rod's and prepared engines for myself and machining and prep for others , i guess this was when i discovered (around the 80s) airbrushing due to the custom scene , i loved the colour's and effect's but was not an artist so could'nt emulate the murals ! - a few of my planes had cool flame job's though

Appreciate your thought's , Dave

K&B was NOT Imron. Throw some Imron Catalyst in some K&Bor Klass Kote paint and watch what happens!! It will instantly turn to goo.

Thanks for the input Jeff. I tried in a polite way to say that K&B Super Poxy was not Imron, but it was pointless. Greg