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Nelson Hobby paint

Old 09-06-2002, 09:02 PM
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Default Nelson Hobby paint

Ok, I tried it, and I don't like it.

I am attempting to repaint a repaired fiberglass cowling for a Sig Sukhoi. Fitst off the green I bought was too dark. I managed to blend in a little cream that I also bought, and got the color really close to the Ultracoat green.

Three days ago I sprayed my first application. Within an hour I had applied five light coats. Next day I sanded with 220 as per Nelson instructions. Applied five more light coats. Let dry 24 hours and discovered a small run. Attempted to sand it out with 220. The paint rolled up under the sandpaper. It lifted right off the base coat. You cannot feather edge this stuff. I tried wet with 400, I tried dry with 400, same with 320 and 220....no feather edge......impossible

I have painted warbirds with house latex and had better results than this stuff. At least with house latex it can be feather edged. After another day of contemplating what to do, I decided to strip it off. Guess what, it all came off in one rubbery sheet. Yes, I followed the Nelson instructions implicitly for surface preparation.

I am sure people have had good results out of this paint...mayby, and I will no doubt hear about them, but as far as I am concerned I am through with it.....period. Been there, done that!!!

Vince
Old 09-07-2002, 06:33 PM
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Default Nelson paints

Interesting... thanks for posting your experience.

Just curious - what primer were you using? I ask that because my own experience with Nelson is that the primer is critical. I did quite a bit of experimenting with Nelson before putting it on my (expensive) pattern model and found that color match requires a blank white surface as the colors are somewhat translucent - some more than others. The grey primer results in a too dark color for matching Monokote or Ultracoat. The most critical thing I found was the type of primer, though. You MUST use either Nelson primer or Lustrekote. Everything else I tried gave me results exactly as you described.

The other part about the primer is if you use Nelson's primer you should let it cure for at least 24 hours before overcoating with paint. I wet sand it with 320 (it sands very easily) and have no problems with color coat adhesion.
Old 09-07-2002, 07:15 PM
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Default Nelson Hobby paint

The Nelson literature does not say that their primer is an absolute requirement for proper adhesion.

I was painting over primarily previous paint of the same color. Again, I followed the Nelson instructions for surface preparation, so much so that the first and subsequent coats showed sanding marks through the paint.

The thing that really ticked me off was when I tried to sand out the very small run and I could not obtain a feather edge when the paint lifted.

I"m glad you had good results with this stuff, but I am not going to give it a second chance.

Thanks
Vince
Old 09-07-2002, 07:16 PM
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Default Nelson Paint

Ditto what Curt said. I have been using nelsons paint for my clients projects for a long time and always had good results. The one thing they told me when i first called them to ask abt using their paint is that the type of primer is critical to the bond. and prep must be made with at least 320 grit and no less. I always use their primers as I know they are matched for their paints. if you have a problem call them they love to talk on the phone and help their customers. as for customer satisfaction and help i have found no equal. They want their customers to be happy and will spend as much time as is needed to solve a problem. Many of the major competetors and top gun and masters winners use their paints and that says a lot for the quality of their product. I would call them and explain what went wrong and honestly answer their questions and they will solve your problem.

Joe
Old 09-08-2002, 06:00 PM
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Default Nelson Hobby paint

As I said, I followed the prep instructions to the letter, including using no less than 220 paper to prep the surface. If the only way to get this stuff to stick is with their primer, then the instructions should say so.

I have a hard time believing many top competitors use this stuff. I know several in the scale realm that definatly don't.

Vince
Old 09-09-2002, 01:26 PM
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Default Nelson paints

Originally posted by Vince
As I said, I followed the prep instructions to the letter, including using no less than 220 paper to prep the surface. If the only way to get this stuff to stick is with their primer, then the instructions should say so.

I have a hard time believing many top competitors use this stuff. I know several in the scale realm that definatly don't.

Vince
Hmmm... the instructions that I have (came with my first paint order from Nelson) go into fairly extensive detail about what primers to use. There are explicit instructions that lacquer-based primers cannot be used because they contain wax to aid in sanding. This prevents the water-based paints from adhering (all - not just Nelson's) because they don't contain solvents to melt the wax. Since I was warned by the instructions about the primer issue, I decided to experiment since at the time of my first order Nelson was out of the white primer. On a test piece of balsa, epoxy finishing resin base, I tried several primers including some cheap automotive primer, Rustoleum primer (enamel based), and Top Flite Lusterkote White primer (old can I had laying around). After allowing everything to cure for 3 days I sprayed four coats of Nelson color (yellow) on all primers and allowed it to air cure for 24 hours. I checked adhesion with sandpaper and with a knife point to see how it would stand up to chipping. The paint would peel right off the lacquer-based primers, just as advertised. I got better adhesion with the Rustoleum primer but the adhesion to the Lusterkote primer was good as it gets. I could sand the color to a feather edge and if you *****ed it, there was no chipping or lifting. The down side of the Lusterkote is that the cans are expensive, don't go far, and you have to wet sand as dry paper just loads up immediately.

I've sinced used the Nelson white primer with good results. I spray one medium coat and after it cures for a day sand it almost completely away. I then go back with one light, even coat to get a smooth, white base for the colors that I lightly wet sand with 320.

Here's a pic of a Brer Rabbitt I painted for a friend recently with Nelson's.
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Old 09-09-2002, 03:59 PM
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Default Nelson Hobby paint

No primer was used, and again, Nelson instructions do not implicitly state their primer is a must. They do give instructions for painting over other unprimed surfaces, like previously painted fiberglass, which I was doing.

If this stuff sticks only to their primer they need to make that point in the instructions they provide, instead of saying other surfaces need to be roughed up with nothing less than 220 grit paper.

The previously painted surface was so rough that after a total of 10 light coats it still showed sanding marks. The sanded finish was first cleaned with Ditzler Prep Sol, so you can't say there was any grease, oil, or silicone remaining on the surface before painting.

This stuff is being marketed like it's the best thing since whipped margarine. Nothing could be further from the truth. I will stick to my respirator and solvent based paints, they go on, bind, sand, and hold up a lot better.

Vince
Old 09-10-2002, 03:00 AM
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Default Nelson Hobby paint

Originally posted by Vince
This stuff is being marketed like it's the best thing since whipped margarine. Vince
I like the whipped margarine Vince. But, I was thinking more along the lines of "IT'S UN NATURAL" Paint without solvent? NOT!
Old 09-12-2002, 11:21 PM
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Default nelson paints on pattern plane

CurtD,
I'm building a pattern plane this winter and would like to paint indoors, so I'm considering Nelson paint for the fiberglass fuse. Can this stuff be applied with a brush or must it be sprayed? Is the finish glossy or matte? Would I need to follow up with an automotive clearcoat to get a nice glossy finish?
Thanks,

--Derek
(I tried sending email through RCUniverse but it tells me you have it disabled)
Old 09-12-2002, 11:54 PM
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Default Re: nelson paints on pattern plane

Originally posted by checksix
CurtD,
I'm building a pattern plane this winter and would like to paint indoors, so I'm considering Nelson paint for the fiberglass fuse. Can this stuff be applied with a brush or must it be sprayed? Is the finish glossy or matte? Would I need to follow up with an automotive clearcoat to get a nice glossy finish?
Thanks,

--Derek
(I tried sending email through RCUniverse but it tells me you have it disabled)
Nelson claims it can be applied with a foam brush, but I have a hard time believing it would look worth a flip. It does have a bit of a gloss when sprayed. Nelson says the final finish should be sanded with 400, then "spit polished" with MEK and a soft cloth to bring back some of the gloss. You can apply a clear gloss coat if desired. It doesn't necessarily have to be an automotive clear coat, it could be a water based clear. It's your choice to try it or not, I tried it and didn't like it worth a $#@%.

Vince
Old 09-15-2002, 05:22 PM
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Default Re: nelson paints on pattern plane

Originally posted by checksix
CurtD,
I'm building a pattern plane this winter and would like to paint indoors, so I'm considering Nelson paint for the fiberglass fuse. Can this stuff be applied with a brush or must it be sprayed? Is the finish glossy or matte? Would I need to follow up with an automotive clearcoat to get a nice glossy finish?
Thanks,

--Derek
(I tried sending email through RCUniverse but it tells me you have it disabled)
Actually, with some practice I think one could do a fairly credible job foam brushing Nelson paint.... but I wouldn't recommend it. Air brushes such as the Badger are relatively cheap and will produce a nice finish. The only problem is the compressor but you might look in the want ads for a used one. I bought a Sears unit used for $75 five years ago and it's still going strong.

Actually Nelsons colors are quite glossy when dry. The white for some reason does not get glossy as the other colors so I use Nelson's clear gloss to get the same gloss level overall. The clear is fuelproof (when you use the crosslinker) and can be applied over decals, striping tape, etc., to protect and fuel proof them.

I've also experimented with rubbing the colors out for more gloss using a fine rubbing compound. This definitely improves the gloss but man, it's too much work!

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