RE: The Pepsi Challenge for Covering Balsa with LS
 

Farmer, i not sure if this was mentioned or if it is even worthy of mentioning. how about putting this over glass instead of filler?

RE: The Pepsi Challenge for Covering Balsa with LS
 

Check this out. 1 square foot of wing. I ran out to GaryM's house this evening and he handed me mockup wing to put this stuff on. Won’t happen tonight. I will put the product on non-thinned out. This way we are comparing apples to apples. My scales shows 52.2 grams yes i double checked to make sure it was set correctly.

fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on uhh akdfmmdf well its not going to happen again!:D I just love that one

RE: The Pepsi Challenge for Covering Balsa with LS
 

I have some test panels going right now, 1 with glass and 1 with polyester should be done Monday.

RE: The Pepsi Challenge for Covering Balsa with LS
 

thats great now were getting some where.

RE: The Pepsi Challenge for Covering Balsa with LS
 

At 2/3 oz per sq foot, or around 6 ozs per sq yard....... this is pretty heavy stuff. And I assume you still need to paint?? I hazard a guess and say that that much weight buys one heck of alot of ding resistance

In contrast 9 sq feet (1 sq yd) of monokote color weighs around 1 3/4 oz. But its plastic covering which I abhor
9 sq feet of ultrakote color weigh around 2 1/2 oz. Plastic covering that I abhor
A properly applied 0.6 oz glass cloth will weigh just about what monokote adds, except you still need paint. Not particularly ding resistant but produces a fine surface for paint. Care is a must to avert hanger rash
Doped silkspan, properly done, adds about 1 oz per sq yard. Even thinner and less ding resistant than glass and also produces a fine surface for paint. Care is a must
Epoxy paint and silkspan is slightly heavier than doped silkspan.

Your weights may vary. I've been at this for 40+ years and have learned how to apply very light coverings on balsa. Early on in my experience trail and early in my learning curve these weights were not this light.

RE: The Pepsi Challenge for Covering Balsa with LS
 

MTK holds us to reality. In most cases, additional weight from a traditional process is tough to overcome. We might be tempted to think... well, an extra few ounces of plane weight can be traded for an easier technique, but then reality sets in that if only a little extra weight is added to the tail, then it has to be countered by lead in the nose so in many cases we'd be talking not just an increased weight of a product... but added lead as well.

RE: The Pepsi Challenge for Covering Balsa with LS
 

MTK,
Thanks for the info,
I never actually weighed it, but always assumed .6 cloth/resin would weigh much more than Iron on,,
The epoxy paints sure add more weight,, I guess that's where most the added weight does come from

Since I still have 1/2 gallon of West system resin/hardener and rolls & rolls of cloth, I'm not giving up on it any time soon ;)

RE: The Pepsi Challenge for Covering Balsa with LS
 

I usually glass with water based poly and .56 glass. That seems to be a fairly light weight solution. I guess i shouldnt have gotten side tracked my goal for this was stated at the beging:

I am going to perform the test. I have ordered both products as you can see from the photo. First I will apply both products to a plank of sheeting and run some basic stress tests on it. After that I have an ARC topflite p47 if the tests go well I will use the product that performs the best or neither if it’s a bust.

The reason for the comparison is to

A. See what the product really is
1. Is it really secret sauce or just a repackaged existing product?
B. Test easy of application and use
C. Test Durability

However the weight of said products comes into play in a big way on all R/C planes. At the end of the day i hope to answer the above questions. The other side experiments perhaps shouldn’t have been done in the context of this thread.

At the end of the day I hope to have provided enough information for a modeler to look at the two products and draw their own conclusion if they want to use it.

RE: The Pepsi Challenge for Covering Balsa with LS
 

Your testing is fine but the statement " is it really a secret sauce or just a repackaged existing product?" is not a claim on their web site, no were do they claim they made the product they just sell it. So what what if is repackaged like no other hobbie shops do that. This is not a new product and a lot of people have used it on their airplanes.

RE: The Pepsi Challenge for Covering Balsa with LS
 

This is true. This is not a statement from the wowplanes website. I dont want to put words in the WOWplanes guys mouth. I think it was a statement on the first thread that was started in the warbird section see below:

"I have followed many of Fahim's (wowplanes) threads on rcscalebuilder and he covers the liqquid sheeting process very well. It is not something he just buys off the shelf and re-bottles. He worked for a couple of years perfecting what is now called liquid sheeting. He is an honest guy and will answer all of your questions if you ask him. Most of what I have read on this thread is from guys who have no idea of what liquid sheeting is. An 8 oz. order if applied correctly will cover a 62" model with 2 coats. It can be applied directly over balsa and will produce a hard surface than can be sanded and painted. The liquid sheeting when applied over balsa will be flexible and not crack (within reason).
Aaron D. "

RE: The Pepsi Challenge for Covering Balsa with LS
 

In addition to tfarmer's response, also note that Wowplanes states on their website [link=http://www.wowplanes.com/product_info.php?cPath=46&products_id=130]here[/link]: "Patent Pending Liquid Sheeting is a registered trademark of Wowplanes Inc."

Now, when someone claims "Patent Pending," its universally understood that they are the ones who filed for the patent. Which would, of course, imply that a "secret sauce" is present. If this is not the case, then it would be appropriate for Wowplanes to clarify such on their website.

RE: The Pepsi Challenge for Covering Balsa with LS
 

You are right good work, then it could not be a repackage product could it?

RE: The Pepsi Challenge for Covering Balsa with LS
 

By 62" model I assume that the whole plane is balsa covered. If 8 ozs of LS will cover the whole model, twice, I'd say it's pretty light overall. Sanding will likely remove 10-15% of that add-on weight to make the surface ready for primer.

That weight compares fairly well to a similar model covered in glass and epoxy paint (clear KlassKote).

Thickness is what drives weight. Control thickness and you control weight build up. Density of all these materials is fairly similar.

RE: The Pepsi Challenge for Covering Balsa with LS
 

I think that is 8oz by volume,,, not weight

RE: The Pepsi Challenge for Covering Balsa with LS
 

There probably is a patent pending but not Wow Planes.This stuff was devleoped by Industial Polymers and sold to Wow Planes.

RE: The Pepsi Challenge for Covering Balsa with LS
 

<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-size: 9pt">Ihave been followingthis thread and spoke to Dave from Industrial Polymers.For anyone wondering about colors as I saw some comments about primers and so on, the manufacturer sellsa coloring agent to use with thisproduct. This totally eliminates the hassle of primer and paint as well as the increased weight for guys that might be concerned with weight.

The coloring agents run about $6 per 1/2 pint or so which is what I would need for my application.</span></div>

RE: The Pepsi Challenge for Covering Balsa with LS
 

[/quote]

There probably is a patent pending but not Wow Planes. This stuff was devleoped by Industial Polymers and sold to Wow Planes.
[/quote]


I would like to stay objective on this subject. Let just assume for a moment this is just repackaged, but if he adds some other chemical to it then it would be his own formula. I’m not defending or pushing anyone under the bus.

I just want to get the facts down and let people decide for themselves. This is why I’m doing this I want to know for myself first hand.

RE: The Pepsi Challenge for Covering Balsa with LS
 

I know for a fact that Industrial Polymers sells to a "model plane company" who then repackages. This came straight from someone at Industrial Polymers. Whether or not that company is wowplanes, I do not have the information.
The patent could be on anything the wowplanes has. It could be a patent on his bottling devices that keeps air/moisture out while transferring from large to small containers.

RE: The Pepsi Challenge for Covering Balsa with LS
 

this is starting to sound/look like the original thread . Could we just stick to how this stuff works or doesn't work? what wowplanes say's or doesnt he still packages the stuff in a small quantity and therefore his handling cost are going to be higher.and for some buying the larger quantity would be a waste.I spoke with industrial polymers and got answers to my questions and posted the info that I felt was helpful to modelers on the original thread.lets wait for Terry farmer to finish his testing and then decide with who/whom we are going to buy from and never mind the the other stuff.
Paul

RE: The Pepsi Challenge for Covering Balsa with LS
 

Who cares,

Does it work well or not?,,, that is the question

RE: The Pepsi Challenge for Covering Balsa with LS
 

Finally, the last two posts get to the point. The thread was originally started to see if the product was 'worth it's weight', no pun intended, but how well it works, and that is the outcome that we are all expecting from these trials.

Keep up the great trial work and I look forward to the outcome, just as much as many others who are following this topic.

Bill

RE: The Pepsi Challenge for Covering Balsa with LS
 

<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-size: 9pt">The reason for the comparison is to
A. See what the product really is
1. Is it really secret sauce or just a repackaged existing product
B. Test easy of application and use
C. Test Durability
D. Test how much product is required to cover a GS warbird

The original quote lists point 1 on the list as a means to determine if this is rebottled or not. Obviously this thread holds huge value for other reasons but it also establishes whether a vendor is reselling a known product.</span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-size: 9pt">
At the end of the day you have a remarkable and informative work to tell whether the product is applicable or not but since it was listed as a primary objective of figuring out whether the product is rebottled or not you&rsquo;ll also have the answer to the first question on the list which is whether both products are the same or not.</span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt"></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-size: 9pt">If vendor A was selling this for 20 a quart and vendor B was selling it for 25 a quart, I don&rsquo;t think there would be any question but that is not the case here.</span></div>

RE: The Pepsi Challenge for Covering Balsa with LS
 

So the advantage of this over other products such as dope, clear paint, sanding sealer, Balsarite, and others is ___what? And what does Pepsi have to do with this?

RE: The Pepsi Challenge for Covering Balsa with LS
 

As advertised put it on paint it and fly. This is how i understand it. Truth be told i think this stuff was intended for foam airplanes at first.

RE: The Pepsi Challenge for Covering Balsa with LS
 

So if I'm understanding this right the product is a filler? It doesn't add strength, just fills in the grain and minor imperfections in the wood, right?