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RE: Mix Elevator with Throttle for Scale Flight?
Speed, Flying IMAC your still going to need some down so the airplane won't start to level off to keep the line straight, your programed mix is doing that for you.
The thing that he was missing is: that you have to trim the airplane to fly level dependent on your airspeed. The way he posed his question makes it seem he had a problem with his airplane, but the problem was actually not knowing all of the science to flying because he saw he needed use the elevator to fly slower and really didn't understand why. Like I said earlier, I think a lot of it has to do with what type of flight training you have, or have not received. |
RE: Mix Elevator with Throttle for Scale Flight?
Just add a few degrees of downthrust, and if you do try anything with regards to programming your transmitter, that is ok too, just make sure that your initial attempts allow you to switch the mix off in flight in case you do not like the change or the change produces a bad effect. Once you are happy with The mix then you can make it unswitched, on all the time.
One size does not fit all; in some cases mechanical adjustment to the airframe is better, in some cases there Is no significant reason not to just do it with your radio. Changing the thrust line may be super simple, but maybe the engine is really built into the plane and can not be moved. Maybe a few flights of tinkering on the radio is better than taking the engine off the front of the plane 6 times to get the thrust right. I know which one I would rather do at the field, but your opinion maybe different While you do want to try to avoid some things such as using too much subtrim to center a servo because it can limit throw in on direction, realize that anything you do is a band aid to the original design. Whether it be changes to the trust line, rudder to aileron/elevator coupling in knife edge, decalage on a biplane, aileron differential, etc, they are all used because no airplane is perfect. Don't worry though, they are working on the perfect airplane right now and it should be available soon! |
RE: Mix Elevator with Throttle for Scale Flight?
Are you guy's not reading my posts? I AM NOTTRYING TO CORRECT A PROBLEM WITH THE PLANE. The plane(s) fly as I want themto and are trimed and balanced perfectly. I am simply testinga theroy.
Once again; The up elevatorwill bemixed in at low to mid throttle and proportional to the throttle. At low throttle, theup elevator mixwill be at the maximumdesired setting,as you move the throttle forward to gain RPM's the amount of mix (up elevator) becomes less and less until at mid throttle the mix (up elevator) is completelyout and the plane is flyingat it's BALANCED, TRIMED, NO THRUST ISSUE, NO AOAISSUEstate. The mix can be turned off and on with a switch. If the switch is on during take-off, it would noteffect the take off since the mixonly applysfrom lowtomid throttle,take off is at or nearfull throttle (no elevatormix). The DX8 performs this mix perfectly I think all agree, that issues that may adversly effectflight of the plane should be recognized, addressedand corrected from the start,afterwhich you can begin to have fun and enjoy the experience. |
RE: Mix Elevator with Throttle for Scale Flight?
Thanks Bozarth.
Finally someone understands what the topic istruly about. I fly scale, as mention at the beginning of this thread, and scale means you are atempting to imitate the real thing only smaller. |
RE: Mix Elevator with Throttle for Scale Flight?
Trim is not a constant in scale, or model flight it is dependent on speed, if you want to try to program a mix to give you auto trim go for it.:D
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RE: Mix Elevator with Throttle for Scale Flight?
Hi!
You can do it! But why? When a perfectly balanced plane doesn't need it! |
RE: Mix Elevator with Throttle for Scale Flight?
ORIGINAL: jaka Hi! You can do it! But why? When a perfectly balanced plane doesn't need it! Wait, are you saying that a typically balanced conventional model with a safe static margin will not need to be retrimmed when flown at a slower airspead? What is your definition of "perfectly balanced"? Kurt |
RE: Mix Elevator with Throttle for Scale Flight?
This should be interesting.
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RE: Mix Elevator with Throttle for Scale Flight?
Locked in the closet when young.
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RE: Mix Elevator with Throttle for Scale Flight?
Back in my early R/C days ( 1980 ) I was able to get an airplane trimmed in about 2 flights, now it takes me about 50. Am I the one missing something here? I'm thinking that I expect more from my airplanes as I used to and I have learned what to adjust to make them meet those expectations. IMO there is no such thing as a perfectly trimmed airplane, it's always a work in progress. Jaka is correct, you can move the CG back far enough so that no trim changes happen right up to the point of stall. We may have different definitions on trim change though. For me it means no AOA change. For some it could mean altitude change.
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RE: Mix Elevator with Throttle for Scale Flight?
ORIGINAL: speedracerntrixie ..For me it means no AOA change... kurt |
RE: Mix Elevator with Throttle for Scale Flight?
Kurt, depending on the airplane. Any of my IMACor pattern airplanes will keep flying in a strait line with no pitch or altitude change. The only thing that changes is airspeed. Any slower then that and yes the airplane will loose altitude but will keep AOA. On my pylon stuff it takes about more like 50% power to keep level in all aspects.
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RE: Mix Elevator with Throttle for Scale Flight?
It sounds like you prefer a more aft cg, which is perfect for pattern and IMAC.
Kurt |
RE: Mix Elevator with Throttle for Scale Flight?
That is correct however there are benifits to setting up any airplane with a more ' Neutral " CG. They are less pitch trim changes related to airspeed, Lower landing speeds, less elevator deflection required, Less control cross coupling and larger flight envelope. IMO it just makes sense to investigate what making some small CG changes will do.
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RE: Mix Elevator with Throttle for Scale Flight?
I would recommend a more positively stable configuration with a more forward cg for the higher wing loaded scale models.
Kurt |
RE: Mix Elevator with Throttle for Scale Flight?
But why?
To make tthe RC flight experience more interesting by adding another dimension.To test the theory on scale planes. To fly at slower speeds without flaps. To see if it works. To have fun with the electronics. Because it seems possible. To share ideas with fellow RC pilots and learn from their experience and knowledge. To cause others to be more open minded. To inform others of the expanding possabilities given the advance tecknowlege, and I hope your getting as big a kick out of this as I am because I <u>love </u>this hobby. I guess I could go to the field, make a couple of loops and come home like some guys I know, but I enjoy experimenting and pushing the envelope. I had an Idea that I discussed with the guys at the field about the mess the planes (namely 4 stroke Saito 100 and 125 glow engines) get in with the oil that comes out of the crank case and spraying all over the plane. It gets even worst when landing on grass or dirt. Most said, thats just what you live with if you fly with glow engines. You just have alot of clean-up at the end of the day. I came up with a soulition that at first was considered impractical and "it may cause problems with the engine". I ran a silicone tube from the crank case to a 2 oz plastic fule tank mounted on the firewall. Ran (2) tubes out. (1) with a clunk inside the tank (1) for the vent. Ran theses (2) tubes down and out the bottom of the cowl. Plug the tube with the clunk. During flight the crank case oil is collected in the tank.To empty the tank , unplug the tube attached to the clunk, connect a tube running from a hand cranked fuel pump and force the oil out with the air comming from thr hand pump. I get about 3 flights before the 2 oz tank is near full. My planes are much cleaner and take less time to clean-up at the end of the day. I |
RE: Mix Elevator with Throttle for Scale Flight?
Cool idea...
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RE: Mix Elevator with Throttle for Scale Flight?
Hi!
Yeah! |
RE: Mix Elevator with Throttle for Scale Flight?
ORIGINAL: flandrumjr But why? To make tthe RC flight experience more interesting by adding another dimension.To test the theory on scale planes. To fly at slower speeds without flaps. To see if it works. To have fun with the electronics. Because it seems possible. To share ideas with fellow RC pilots and learn from their experience and knowledge. To cause others to be more open minded. To inform others of the expanding possabilities given the advance tecknowlege, and I hope your getting as big a kick out of this as I am because I <u>love </u>this hobby. I guess I could go to the field, make a couple of loops and come home like some guys I know, but I enjoy experimenting and pushing the envelope. I had an Idea that I discussed with the guys at the field about the mess the planes (namely 4 stroke Saito 100 and 125 glow engines) get in with the oil that comes out of the crank case and spraying all over the plane. It gets even worst when landing on grass or dirt. Most said, thats just what you live with if you fly with glow engines. You just have alot of clean-up at the end of the day. I came up with a soulition that at first was considered impractical and ''it may cause problems with the engine''. I ran a silicone tube from the crank case to a 2 oz plastic fule tank mounted on the firewall. Ran (2) tubes out. (1) with a clunk inside the tank (1) for the vent. Ran theses (2) tubes down and out the bottom of the cowl. Plug the tube with the clunk. During flight the crank case oil is collected in the tank.To empty the tank , unplug the tube attached to the clunk, connect a tube running from a hand cranked fuel pump and force the oil out with the air comming from thr hand pump. I get about 3 flights before the 2 oz tank is near full. My planes are much cleaner and take less time to clean-up at the end of the day. I |
RE: Mix Elevator with Throttle for Scale Flight?
Hi!
The rule of thumb is always: Move the Cof G as far rearward as possible and at the same time reduce elevator throw, untill the plane flies just perfect! "Perfect" means the plane is manuverable when you want it to be, goes straight at any speeds, is docile at slow speeds, easy to fly at all speeds, and stalls when You want it to stall (at nearly zero speed)....you can go on and on here. This is the way all airplanes should be set up, scale planes, sport and racers! This takes some time but when you finnaly obtain that "perfect setting" you wont bother with any electronic elevator /throttle mixing. |
RE: Mix Elevator with Throttle for Scale Flight?
It's neat to experiment with different stuff, I like that particular facet of it myself. [8D] Heck I put a rudder in the exit duct of a DF foam flying wing to see if it would do knife edge (it did) just because I could.
My problem is I look at computers in general to be a pain, after all my years of working in high tech. Like I said I have never bothered with many of the setup options in a computer radio, too much like being at work. :D I think the most important thing with model airplanes is to have some fun with them. |
RE: Mix Elevator with Throttle for Scale Flight?
Bottom line is the fun factor. We all have fun doing different things within the hobby. I used to like to tinker now I find enjoyment in a good solid aerobatic sequence or some hot laps.
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RE: Mix Elevator with Throttle for Scale Flight?
ORIGINAL: jaka Hi! The rule of thumb is always: Move the Cof G as far rearward as possible and at the same time reduce elevator throw, untill the plane flies just perfect! ''Perfect'' means the plane is manuverable when you want it to be, goes straight at any speeds, is docile at slow speeds, easy to fly at all speeds, and stalls when You want it to stall (at nearly zero speed)....you can go on and on here. This is the way all airplanes should be set up, scale planes, sport and racers! This takes some time but when you finnaly obtain that ''perfect setting'' you wont bother with any electronic elevator /throttle mixing. You have it wired. I need some of this same type info on my wife. Kurt |
RE: Mix Elevator with Throttle for Scale Flight?
You are righ on jaka
This is my approach somewhat as well since I have a couple of war birds, it helps with the nose over problem too. However, if you talk to most of the guys at my field, whom I respect, their approach is to always have the plane "a little nose heavy." No explanation is ever given of what is "a little". Never mind how you like to fly. It's almost like one of the 10 Commandments, so I have not moved the CG back much further than recommended in the manual. In hind site, that may be the reason for my experiment. I <u>will </u>move the CGback before I employ the mix and not discuss it with the "die hards" at the field for fear of being excomunicated (kidding). This is the kind of advise from experiance and knowledge that I can appreciate, thanks jaka. And thanks to you as well Bozarth. FYI the mix sets up very well with the DX8 go to Mix and select, Throttel to Elevator, set 0% on the first Rate 15% on the second Rate and about 75% on the offset (don't remember if it is + or - on the values) The elevator begins to move up at about 60% to 75% throttle from full throttle, pull back the throttle to about 50% and the elevator goes up to about 5% to 10%. Now lets see....... what other combination of mixes are out there? |
RE: Mix Elevator with Throttle for Scale Flight?
Rudder to Aileron.
Rudder to Throttle on a switch for takeoff as most warbirds will use right rudder (even full scale) to compensate for torgue roll. Down Elevator to flaps. Tom |
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