Cheaper clear coating found
 

I found an inexpensive clear coat in satin and gloss (haven't seen a semi-gloss yet ). This is a "NON YELLOWING" formula and is cheaper than the Dupli-Color acrylic clear (gloss only) and available just about anywhere.

Krylon ACRYLIC satin and ACRYLIC gloss !!! Once the Christmas bills are taken care of I will investigate the Krylon matte finish and see how/if that will work for a flat clear coat.

Completed a test panel for the preliminary testing. Panel is painted with Krylon gloss white. Half of the panel is clear coated with the satin, the other half with the gloss clear.

Let the panels dry for 24 hours, then poured 15% nitro fuel on the panel and let it sit for 8 hours.

Everything came out perfect. The fuel wiped off with no softening of either the clear coat or the paint.

Now to stick the panel outside for awhile and see if their "non yellowing formula" is truth or hype.

RE: Cheaper clear coating found
 

Sounds very good. Some clear coats on cars are also Acrylics.

RE: Cheaper clear coating found
 

Hey Campy,

I see your back to the scientific research again on clear coating. We await your findings.

Good Luck

Ed

RE: Cheaper clear coating found
 

This is great news. I have just started using Rustoleum on my last kit. I didn't realize that Krylon was fuel proof also, ( I assume the plane colors).

And its really great to hear about a good clear coat. Is it really glossy, like wet looking ?

RE: Cheaper clear coating found
 

Can you repair the finish.

I recently finished a model with an acrylic lacquer top coat. When I went to repair the finish and sprayed on some of the base colour coat it crazed on the edges.

RE: Cheaper clear coating found
 

That's great news Campy (So Far)

May I suggest you paint a strip white without any coating to see it side-by-side with the coated areas

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It is not a "wet" look, however, it has the equivelant shine to UC/Lustercrap clear

RE: Cheaper clear coating found
 

Good idea. It hadn't occured to me to do that.

RE: Cheaper clear coating found
 

Did you ensure that the area was thoroughly clean ? Did you go over it with alcohol and CLEAN rags prior to painting ?

While you can put enamel over lacquer (not the other way though ), you really should LIGHTLY MIST the first couple of coats on and let dry between coats. Occasionally the enamel and lacquer do react with each other even though can put enamel over lacquer.

Since you are using a lacquer clear coat, I presume all the paint is lacquer. Lacquer does have certain features that are nice, however, for future repairs, etc, I prefer to stay with either enamel or latex for the complete paint job.

What I do is either use ONLY enamel paint OR ONLY latex paint followed with an acrylic enamel clear coat. I have found that doing this, I have had no problems with repairs/painting.

RE: Cheaper clear coating found
 

Hi All......Kinda new here...... so, Rustoleum and Krylon are fuel proof ?

RE: Cheaper clear coating found
 

Krylon COLORED paints ARE NOT FUEL PROOF. They must be clear coated.

If a colored paint STATES ON THE CAN it is an ACRYLIC, then there is a good chance it is at least fuel resistant. Before using it on your plane, I strongly suggest doing a test panel and testing the paint's resistance to glow fuel.

RE: Cheaper clear coating found
 

SOME of the Rustoleum paints are fuel resistant/proof, but not all of them.

Krylon COLORED paints ARE NOT FUEL PROOF, they must be clear coated.

RE: Cheaper clear coating found
 

raw cold nitro fuel will not hurt almost all paints but get hot burnt fuel on it and it will run off like a sick dog,ask me how i know this and i will tell you i tried krylon long time ago and won't do it again without a good clear coat and even then it will sometimes react bad

RE: Cheaper clear coating found
 

And some paints will not be fuelproof until they've had time to cure, not just dry to the touch.

Give some paints time to cure and they turn out to be fuelproof. One problem we have with paint advice is that some people report what happened the day after they painted, and others didn't expose the paint to fuel for weeks after painting. And some say "Xbrand" isn't worth spit, while others think it's bulletproof.

Another problem we have is that paint manufacturers may change their contents from batch to batch and the label never changes. And none of the mfg's making home improvement paints have any interest at all in making their paint fuel proof or advertising that.

And some paints actually have special ingredients in them depending on the climate for the sales area.

Paint and it's qualities is a messy topic.

RE: Cheaper clear coating found
 

FWIW, there is a line of paint that is not fuelproof..... until you add it's "cross linker" before painting with it and then it is.

It would be very interesting to discover what that cross linker is and if it would work with other brands of similarly based paint.

RE: Cheaper clear coating found
 

Home depot Latex primer is garbage to people who expect it to set completly in 2 days.

2 weeks later and we had to use power sanders to get it off.

Time IS important.

RE: Cheaper clear coating found
 

I tested some "Acrylic laquer clearcoat" submerged in a jar of 10% fuel several years ago. Never got soft, so I thought it would work fine. Well in acyual use, all the areas subject to hot exhaust fuel got soft.:eek:

RE: Cheaper clear coating found
 

I've run into that same situation where the hot exhaust did in the fuelproofing of the paint. I wound up covering that area with clear Ultracote. After I'd scraped and sanded and repainted of course. I would have preferred to paint clear epoxy over it, but couldn't find any at that time.

I also found that blue rustoleum matched one of the Ultracote blues almost perfectly. So I sprayed the aluminum gear blue to match the airplane. Two days later the paint was dry and seemed firmly attached. But when mounting the engine, old fuel dripped on it. Nope, it didn't do anything to the paint. But when I wiped the blasted oil off with rubbing alcohol on a paper towel, some of the bloody paint came off too. Lousy adhesion to the aluminum. I'd sanded before painting to remove oxidation etc, so I was ticked. First time I'd ever had a problem with that brand. I figured the plane would look like a garbage truck as soon as I fueled it and flew it. And didn't feel like sanding off the paint. So I covered the blasted gear with clear Ultracote. Worked like a charm. Turns out the airplane was a toy masquerading as a model airplane and lasted a VERY short time. That blue gear lives on however. Best part of the airplane it turns out. Of course, it was originally a retrofit to the junk gear that came in that ARF box.

RE: Cheaper clear coating found
 

By all means let's go cheap. I've spent hundreds of hours and thousands of dollars on my last project and now that it's time to paint, I am really looking to save some bucks. Can you tell me where I can get the cheapest "Dupli Color"? Can't wait to get this beast into the sky. the engine alone cost me more than my first car. All this BS about plastic coverings and top coat paints scare me. This thing is so big I can barely get it into my Pinto.

By the way, with all the money I can save on paint I can buy loads of old fuel. Does anyone have some cans of fuel sitting around I can buy for a song? Eight to ten years old will be just fine as long as it matches the color of my Kraft radio.

See you on the contest circuit and watch out.

RE: Cheaper clear coating found
 

Glad to see others are getting in to what I did years ago, but no one listened! I use Krylong Automotive, about five bucks a can, AND HAS AN EXCELLENT SPRAY HEAD! I then CLEAR COAT IT WITH MINWAX POLYCRYLIC in the spray can. I tested these years ago with 25%, left standing 24 hours with no problem. I did a rub test after 8 hours, no problem. By then you have cleaned your plane, gone home, have the steak on, and have downed a few! Here is the deal, you must let the paint cure for a couple of days. Then a coat of mist of the poly, cure for a couple of days, one more coat to cover, let cure for a week. Yes, I know, long time. However, you will have a great paint job for about ten bucks that is resistant to just about anything but Godzilla. You have to remember that the poly is plastic. No, for you all that won't take the time to learn this, the poly will not yellow. It will last longer in the sun than you will. Oh, Rustoleum is good, but I think Krylon is a harder paint, the spray head is better than any. OK, NOW YOU CAN HELP ME! I have Air Force numbers for three different shades of gray. Where do I find some matching numbers so I can get the paint mixed at the store? Thanks Tons!

RE: Cheaper clear coating found
 

I have used the Minwax Polycrylic. There are a couple of caveats with this.

1. Let the poly dry/cure A MINIMUM of one week before exposing to glow fuel.

2. DO NOT LET THE ENGINE RESIDUE REMAIN ON THE PLANE/FINISH OVER 4 HOURS !!
After about 4 hours, the residue will soften the polycrylic.

RE: Cheaper clear coating found
 

a strong version of WB poly is the Varathane Diamond finish its a floor and furniture finish that I have used with great success on my models as well as for work

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I still use Model Master paints and then use their dulcote over it. Expensive? Yes, but I do not have to worry about the paint coming off or parts softening. As for the color matching from spray can to bottle type, I have not had a problem at all. Every time I painted or touched up a bird later on the color matched perfectly. Like I said it is not cheap but it is reliable and I am willing to pay for reliability.

RE: Cheaper clear coating found
 

OK folks. Brought in the test panels with the Krylon acrylic gloss and acrylic satin on them.

After washing off the dirt, the results are....Drum roll

There was NO NOTICEABLE YELLOWING with either the gloss or satin. I had also put a strip of unprotected Krylon white on the panel just to be sure.

RE: Cheaper clear coating found
 

Campy,

Can you use it over Latex

RE: Cheaper clear coating found
 

Great information here. We are all looking for better (read more performance at a better price) model products. I tested the Krylon as well and found it to be a great product for glow fuel. Wal-Mart has a private brand of clear spray that sells for a buck and does a great job as well. Only in gloss though. The clear acylic enamels will not stand up to gas though. So if you have a gas powered model or plan to put a gas motor on in the future you will need to recoat.

JEB

RE: Cheaper clear coating found
 

I just finished a spit fire. I sprayed the last color -camoflage green 1 week ago. This weekend I used the krylon Satin and just about cried. Mind you, I used all Krylon paints so there should have been no incapablity issues but the first thing I noticed was that the the clear dramatically changed the color.. especially on the gray. Then I painted the cowl and found out that it fogged over the green areas! It improved as it dried but two days later there is still a smokey apperance. I also had a problem with the grey areas in that when cured.. there were strange patterns developing at random.

By the way, the spray area was about 75 deg and the can was warmed in hot water just to get that out of the way.


Best regards,
Randy

RE: Cheaper clear coating found
 

That's a tough one. Clear can sometimes change the hue of the underlying color. Gloss clears tend to richen the color while satin or flat clears will wash it out a bit. Can you describe the "random patterns" a bit more. Foggier areas maybe? You may have just gotten a bad can of clear too. If you have any left, spray it on a piece of clean metal or the like. How does it react then? A word of advice on all satin clears - shake the can to within an inch of it's life. The flattening agent that is added to clear ( or color for that matter ) tends to settle out rather quickly. If the can has been on the store shelf for a while, the agent can become a rock in the bottom of the can. If it's not dispersed in the clear really well, varying degrees of sheen could result while using the can.

Regards,
Dan

RE: Cheaper clear coating found
 

I went back and read the entire thread and wanted to post a little about paint chemistry that may help everyone out there. This is what I do for a living and have found that once you understand a little background, the puzzle pieces start to fall together a little easier.

Paint can be broken down into basically two chemical categories - thermoplastic and theromset. Lacquer, acrylic or not is considered a thermoplastic. That means it can be broken down with either heat or solvent. The oily residue may discolor it a little bit but add heat to the equation and you have a recipe for it coming off. That's why raw fuel reacts slowly but hot exhaust products react poorly with a lacquer finish. Time isn't much of a factor when it comes to lacquer. Lean against someone's old lacquer finished Vette with fuel or solvent and you had better have your running shoes on. Acrylic is a plasticizer that is added to alot of paints to add to thier durabilty and flexibility. Acrylic lacquer will hold up better than the old nitrocelluose.

Thermoset describes enamels. These products cure by oxidation, a chemical reaction with air. The more time that goes by the stronger they become. These types of paints are very durable and extremely chemical resistant. Rub as you will but they will take punishment. From previous posts I read about laquer over enamel and vice versa. Excellent advise, pick a system and stay with it - you'll be alot happier.

Latex is great for durabilty and chemical resistance. Try and scrub the paint off your living room wall. If it gives you the finish you want, great. Being waterborne there are no chemical compatibility problems. Adhesion sometimes - but our planes are pampered, don't sit in the weather all day and don't get beat with road salt. We have alot of leeway with our planes that in my automotive profession we don't. Experiment, find what works for you and let the rest of us in on it. Hope this helps someone out there.

Regards,
Dan

RE: Cheaper clear coating found
 

Dan....Know about lacquer in heated car. Was not left very long, but had the imprint of my seat material. It rubbed out OK but I never did it again. Can you comment on the epoxy paints for our purposes. I don't think I would spray them over lacquer, but what about enamel or latex. Should we use epoxy over epoxy or can we get away with latex. (more color options). Another question to try your patience.....Can pearl powders pe added to clear epoxy. Thanks for your input into the subject. Dave

RE: Cheaper clear coating found
 

Epoxies are among the strongest finishes available. Watch the thickness though, they can be quite heavy. They would work great over lacquer primer, over CURED enamel ( depending on the enamel, that can take longer than you think) and fine over latex. Epoxies are slow to crosslink ( cure ) so during the application process you shouldn't have reactions with underlying products. Lacquer can work over enamel ( not recommeded though ) as long as the enamel is cured. Oxidation is a slowwww process so that is what gets most people in trouble. The enamel isn't chemically stable and solvent ( even itself ) can cause problems.

Pearl powders ( great stuff ) can be added to any clear product and sprayed. The amount added depends on your spraying style and taste - a little goes a long way. Don't add too much or it can get a little difficult getting a even, blemish free finish. In the automotive world, pearl is added to what is essentially clear basecoat. A pure clear overlay is than added on top. That way when you rub the finish you are polishing raw clear, not pearl containing clear so the finish stays nice and even. Doing it that way on our planes would add weight though so that's the trade-off. Again, our planes don't see the outside enviroment 24/7 so we can alter the process somewhat to our liking.

Dan

RE: Cheaper clear coating found
 

I just sprayed a sample piece of litespan with "KRYLON FUSION for plastics and other type surfaces. I went on terrific. I sprayed about 4 coats about 1 minute apart. The can says 30 seconds between coats andno longer than 24 hours.

It looks great. A nice semi-glossy finish. I coated with KRYLON Acrylic "Crystal Clear" satin finish, non-yellowing, after letting dry for about 30 minutes. Looks fantastic, a very nice
"high sheen" finish but not glossy. Very smooth to the touch. No orange peel. Litespan is a very tight weave fabric and I can just barely seen the weave if I hold it to the light just right. I think, if I had sprayed one more coat of the FUSION (Yellow ) it would have completely filled the weave.

Don't know about nitro fuel proof, yet. However, I wipe my planes down after every flight or two, so I am not too worried about that. I think this is going to work, great.

Thanks for the tips and comments. I will be watching this thread.

RE: Cheaper clear coating found
 

i have a small question:
if i were to use the varathane polyurethane clear over latex, would it still yellow if i used the exterior stuff that has uv protection?
or does the water based clear resist glow fuel? i am running very low nitro (5% or less)

RE: Cheaper clear coating found
 

It is hard to describe the blotches, but they look almost like water spots.. like a pool of water that dried up. I did shake well and heat the can but it is possible that I did not shake long enough. I will check that out, I have 4 cans left. I used to have a spray booth at my last home and mixed my own automotive clear coatings using a flattening agent.. a milky white material that cut the gloss. My cowl has milky white areas on it and I painted it last. I remember rattling the can but not sure how long so that could be the problem. I will do some tests

I did discover that the krylon paints are not going to work well around alcohal as I had some some color on the clear canopy where I missed masking. It only took a q-tip and 5 minutes of rubbing to completely remove the paint using rubbing alcolhal. (no pun inte

RE: Cheaper clear coating found
 

I did a paint patch yesterday to test the Drylon "Fusion" paint. I put on 4 coats, waited one hour and coated with 4 coats of the Krylon Crystal Clear Satin.

This morning I ironed on a pc. of UltraCote to see how it would handle temperature. At 300 degrees the paint will come off on the iron if you tarry. At 250 degrees I ironed on another pc. of UltraCote and had no problems at all. The ultraCote sticks great and the paint did not get soft. Next I tried a pc. of self-adhesive UltraCote striping and it really sticks to the paint good.

Keep in mind this is less than 24 hours ago, so it has not really had any time to cure. And that's apply the base color and then clear Coating in a matter of 1 1/5 hours.

Next, I am going to run the test patch with Acetone and see what happens. Then I am going to pour 20% Cool Power on it and let is stand.

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Jim....To test it with fuel...run the fuel in a engine a place the test piece behind the exhaust and let it sit in the sun...This is the only way to test it. Raw fuel won't prove anything, it has to be hot exhaust. Let us know.

RE: Cheaper clear coating found
 

Oops! I made a mistake. I have not clear coated the test sample yet, as I stated above. I have made another test patch. I have painted it with the Fusion Yellow and I am going to let it set for 24 hours. Then I am going to clear coat and let set another 24 hours. Then I'll test for fuel. I will take this patch to the field with me and hold it behind the exhaust.

On the 1st patch (the patch mentioned in prev. post) that had not been clear coated I took a swab and dipped it into acetone and rubbed the patch. It did begin to smear after a couple of swipes. The pieces of UltraCote and UltraCote adhesive striping are stuck real good.

Then I poured 10% fuel on the patch and let it sit about 5 hours. Took paper towel and wiped up the fuel and no yellow on the towel. It did not affect the paint nor did it penetrate the paint and covering.

I am anxious to clear coat and test. However, I am told by some who have some expereince that you need to let everything cure for about a week before you try anything.

RE: Cheaper clear coating found
 

I've been playing with paints too in anticipation of a cowl repaint on a Hanger 9 PT-19 and cowl and wheel pants on an Akrobat. Test so far are

* Rustoleum Professional high performance enamel... 24 hours later it softens immediately when a drop of cold fuel is placed on it. However, if given a couple of weeks cure time, the Rustoleum paints seem pretty resistant. The Rustoleum clear coat enamel however is not very resistant.

* Dupli Color from the auto parts store... cold fuel doesn't soften it... even within a half hour, however.... when I clear coated over the Dupli Color with some Dupli Color truck, van and SUV clear coat... after 24 hours, and tested two hours later... the fuel softened the clear coat and the Dupli Color color paint under it that previously had been totally resistant to softening with cold fuel. So... as has been mentioned... strange things happen with paints.

* The Dupli Color Truck, Van and SUV clear coat over the 24 hour old Rustoleum enamel produced instant crinkle finish.

* I'll test again after a week or so the clear coat over the Dupli Color color sample to see if it still softens.

* I've also tested one of the Dupli Color acrylic paints and they are not affected by cold fuel. Not many color offerings of the acrylic locally but one is very close to royal blue ultra coat. I will use it to repaint the PT-19 cowl.

RE: Cheaper clear coating found
 

All lacquers will soften with heat, even acrylic (but not as much as celulose). Engine exhaust is the only way to be sure.