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C-130 updates

Old 11-24-2003, 11:39 PM
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rryman
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Default C-130 updates

OK, I know there are more people on this thread than me building or flying a C-130. I haven't gotten any updates lately on any of them. How's the rest of you getting along with your ship? Jimmie bananas, C130nut, and jimcork, I know you're out there, lets hear about those birds. I'm getting along on mine, but unlike some of you, we have winter ahead of us yet, so I've got lots of time. I have decided on the AC-130A scheme for mine, and am presently collecting documentation on it. No particular reason, other than that will make it a warbird if I finish it like that, and the fact that I have an AC-47 already done in camo. (I think camo also hides a lot of flaws!) The only thing that is starting to concern me it that everyone that sees it says, "And it's supposed to fly with .25's??" MMMMMM!!!!!
Anybody got any updates?
Randy
Old 11-25-2003, 06:26 AM
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Jimmy Bananas
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Default RE: C-130 updates

Randy:

Well mine is ready to paint,but will have to wait until next spring to do that..I live in an apartment,and it's hell trying to paint a plane in the winter time..Still looking for a good 5-view of it in camouflage colors (Vietnam Era)..Also have to order some new cowls..I switched engines..Going to use Mag's 36, 2 strokes...I think the beast will weight around 25 Ibs...I know Jim Cork mention he uses full flaps on his...Got to see how much full flaps is...Anyway..thats my story....
Old 11-25-2003, 02:22 PM
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Default RE: C-130 updates

Well, progress has slowed due to ... well..... I bought an RC helicopter. I am still working on the C130, but really slow. I am going to mount the nacelles this week or next. Any pointers?
Old 11-25-2003, 03:11 PM
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rryman
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Default RE: C-130 updates

I am going to mount the nacelles this week or next. Any pointers?
========Yea, measure, measure, measure!! I did what I could to insure that I had mine aligned straight. The only other thing that comes to mind was mentioned on my plan reference about the size props you intend to use. The layout on my plan was for a specific size prop. I went ahead and spaced my nacelles just a little farther apart just in case.
Randy
Old 11-25-2003, 05:00 PM
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jimcork1
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Default RE: C-130 updates

I have been on vacation,, traveling to the Carolinas. I did see a c130 in a hobby shop in Spartinburg and was told it only flew twice and crashed both times, so they just hang it.

Now for update on my herk,, I have adjusted the stab to lower the leading edge. I still have about 1/8" more to lower the leading edge. I have 19 flights on it. I have learned that on take off roll,, do not pull up elevator until the plane has accelerated close to flying speed. I held full up for the entire takeoff roll and the bird lifted with a gust of wind (15mph) and the #1 engine dropped about 1000 rpm.. It almost stalled and the left wing missed the ground by inches,, then of course the right wing dropped and it missed by inches. I pulled power back slightly to let the #1 richen up a bit and pull,, I also pushed down elevator, (gutsy move at 10') and flew a shallower than normal flight path until climb out was at safe altitude. I landed and richened #1 and all was well after this flight. I have done (at altitude) stalls. It stalls very gently by slowly dropping the nose and slightly off to the left.

Landing practice was found to have the best (smoothest) landings by flying 50% flaps and power off for final approach, then in the round out I ADD 2 clicks of power for about 1 second, then ease off the power and the plane flies to the wheels. You do not want to stall drop this bird in.

Glad to be back,, vettdvr.. PS photo is what I thought was my work car,, but my wife labeled the photo as.: "Mine"
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Old 11-25-2003, 05:07 PM
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jimcork1
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Default Nacell

I mounted the nacells by installing the engines on the firewalls and then using the crankshaft for the jig.
The jig was a shower door track very straight, I located the holes on the track, Installed all 4 engines with the prop nut and then turned the wing vertical. I then set the engines all 4 at one time on the wing. (the wing was marked with centerline markings). Once on the wing CA the nacells and remove the shower track. Then I epoxied them in place.

WARNING. I fly with 4 saito's .30's and it flies at 22+#'s very well. If you go to large engines you will have prop clearance issues. You must let your prop size dictate the engine size. If you use a 36 2 stroke you might have to use a 3 blade prob for prop tip clearance.

If I was doing it over again I would use the new Saito .40's vs the .30's. I would use a 10x7 or 8 prob vs the 10x6. My .30's turn 10,100 rpm and all engines were series produced and ordered that way. The max variation is from 9900 to 10,100 rpm. All 4 typically run (in sync") or at least very close to it. You can tell when the engines drop in,,, really cool sound. Guys at the field tell me it sounds like a flight of mad hornets when I do a fly by. Real cool flier though. Flight #19 was completed now about 150 minutes total air time.. Not too shabby for my first multi.. Jim
Old 11-26-2003, 07:59 AM
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Jimmy Bananas
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Default RE: Nacell

Jim:

Ok on the 50 Degrees of flap on landing...How much do you use on takeoff?..Right now I have 10 degrees for takeoff and 20 degrees for landing...On the engine spacing for the nacelles,best to measure for 10" props...Mine were spaced for 9" props..Big mistake because I changed engines,so I needed bigger props. I can swing a 9.5 on the inter nacelles and a 10" on the outer nacelles..Had to reset 2 firewalls in order to obtain prop clearnce...One more question Jim,what is the advantage of 3 bladed props? I agree with you on the 4 stroke engines..If I could,would use Saito's 40- 4 strokes engines...nice package....thanx. again..
Old 11-26-2003, 01:33 PM
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Tannerlb
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Default RE: Nacell

do you have any pictures or you planes guys?
Old 11-26-2003, 11:29 PM
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rryman
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Default RE: Nacell

I hope to be able to lay some paint on mine in the next couple weeks, probably over the holidays. I have the wing, stab and control surfaces primed and ready, now working on the fuse with some details like gun ports, IR, LLTV stuff and the side looking radar domes. I'm also adding a RAM rotating beacon and landing lights to mine. I'm really hoping to keep it at about 17-18#. I guess we'll see.
Randy
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Old 11-27-2003, 04:11 AM
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Jimmy Bananas
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Default RE: Nacell

Randy;

Nice pic of your model..one question...do you have retracts, and if so,what is the distance from bottom of fuse to the top of your bench?....
Old 11-27-2003, 08:48 AM
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rryman
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Default RE: Nacell

Jimmie,
I did not put in retracts at this time. I did however, make allowances to do it just in case I want to in the future. I don't believe it would be difficult to make a set for this model. I put mine in a little different than the plans call for. I have the gear wire mounted ot a separate plate, which bolts to the box inside the plane which has slots in it to adjust he wheels up or down as necessary. I now have 1-1/2" clearance under the plane, which I think will be plenty, and maybe a little to much to look scale. Right now the nose is sitting a little high. Still need to do some adjustment on it. I have a spring arrangement on the nose gear so it moves up and down for a little shock absorbing ability. I'm working on making the gatling guns and the 40mm BOFORS out of K & S aluminum tubing. The radar domes on the side are tops off of deodorant spray that I found at Wal Mart.
Randy
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Old 11-28-2003, 10:28 AM
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rryman
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Default RE: Nacell

The transformation to a "Warbird" has begun. Finished up the guns last night. Had to temporarily put them on to see how they look. Probably went to a lot of trouble for this, since the sides of the fuse were gloss black and some of this probably won't be noticeable anyway.
Randy
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Old 11-28-2003, 11:05 PM
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jimcork1
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Default RE: Nacell

I am not big on 3 blade props because the 2 blade is more efficient. However if your engine spacing requires a larger prop than you planned, the 3 blade is an option. If you use a 10x6 prop and go to 3 blade,, start with 9x5 3 blade.

I noticed in the landing gear, you built it exactly like the "plan". I made that part removable. My Main gear bolts to the square box f/glassed to the fuse. belly. I used 6 4x40 socket head screws and blind nuts. This makes the plate removable for repairs/upgrades. The belly of your plane looks about the right height. Mine was lower and on grass that was a problem.

One small point,, I used 5/32 wire for the gear, and then put hardwood landing gear blocks over the struts to make the wheels more rigid. Prior to that the wires were bending on landings.

Flaps.. I use full flaps, (all I can put down) on take off. Let the plane roll and pick up speed with a neutral elevator. Then when it has speed give up elevator. I have to use full up elevator for take off and after lift off release some of the up pressure to level out the rate of climb. Takeoff's are very realistic. The nose will lift and the mains will stay planted. When flying speed is reached the mains will lift off. CAUTION, if you don't reduce the pressure on the elev (NOT PUSH DOWN) the plane will over rotate to a very steep climb angle of climb.

Landings are better with 1/2 flaps. (my full is about 45 degrees down and I only have 2 flaps / wing) I did not add the 3rd on the removable wing tip.

For landing,, I use 1/2 flaps and fly a steep almost power off glide path (vietman type approach) This way if an engine quits power is back and you can still make the landing. If your engines are really reliable and mine are, but I still fly steep you can fly a power on landing.

Now lets talk making the landing. Flaps 1/2, power almost to idle fly stable path until about 4 or so ft above the touchdown point. Then add 2 or so clicks of throttle. Once you have leveled off allow the plane to settle and as soon as the wheels touch power to idle AND FLAPS UP. The flaps up will prevent going airborne if you get a large gust of wind.

I am now doing touch and goes. At touch down I add full power then put the flaps down to full. Then add up elevator for lift off.

I now have 19 (8 minute) flights very successful. The first were shakey due to the elevator incident being too positive, but the plane is now very stable. In only 1 of the 19 flights did an engine quit due to bad fuel (new out of the jug). When the outboard engine quit the plane immediately turned to the dead engine. I mix ail to rudder. When the engine quit I added hard elevator (which also added the needed rudder) straightened the plane then flew the traffic pattern to steep final approach on 3 engines.

When you paint be sure to fill the pin holes. It is full of pin holes..

Good luck,, Jim
Old 11-28-2003, 11:08 PM
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jimcork1
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Default Gear Box

One last point. I used (2) 1/4 x 1/4 spruce stringers lenght wise on the floor of the plane to take out body flex. There was a lot of flex when I initially test installed the main gear box. I installed the main gear box with wood screws for location and testing and found the belly of the plane would flex serverly without the spruce. After adding the spruce and glassing the main gear box down, I put 4 oz glass over the spruce to make a type of f/glas twin beam. I have had a few hard landings and the gear on my bird is very solid and secure. Jim
Old 11-28-2003, 11:33 PM
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rryman
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Default RE: Gear Box

I have already noticed the pin hole problem on the nacelles. I guess I'll find out tomorrow. It time permits, I'm going to try to get a coat of primer on the fuse and check for pin holes. I know there are several places that will need attention, and I'm sure there are some I haven't seen yet. And some of them are my own doing!
Does the guy who made your TAC decal do that as a business? I'm in need of getting the nose art done for this one at some point. I'm looking for someone who knows more about that stuff than me! I've been looking at some places that sell decal making kits for ink jet printers. You have any experience with making them like that?
Randy
Old 11-29-2003, 05:18 AM
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Jimmy Bananas
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Default RE: C-130 items

Thanx Jim for the info on the flaps, and 3 bladed props...Will take everything under advisement..BTW,my retracts are removeable also,for service...Got some hard maple wood and had a friend of mine cut groves in them, so the retract plate will slide in and out, for service....Have two 8-32 bolts ( one on each side) to hold the gear in...Glued them inside the fuse with fiberglass cloth, and I believe they'll be alright....

Randy, I agree with Jim C. on the pin holes in the fiberglass fuse and nacelles..I sanded it down,and then put one coat of primer,to check this out and WOW, never seen so many pin holes...I use a tube of 'Bando Putty" to fill them up..To be honest,I used one tube,+ another one to get the job done...I guess Byron models spoiled me...Hardly any pin holes in them..Also my Typhoon fuse had some in it,but not that many...

Good luck Randy..........
Old 11-29-2003, 11:59 AM
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jmupilot
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Default RE: C-130 items

Jim did you say you deploy full flaps for touch-n-go take-off? That's against all i've been taught in full scale operation.... ie small private planes. If you have half flaps on final seems you should be leaving them at that position, and as speed builds up start retracting the flaps. But if thats what works guess you know your plane well enough to keep it going. Flaps at full deployment cause a lot of drag as opposed to lift, unless you have the fowler flaps that the full size C-130 has, which add to the total wing area too. Just my 2 pennies.

Pete
Old 11-29-2003, 10:53 PM
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rryman
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Default RE: C-130 items

I think I've come up with a new nickname for my Herk. "Putty Wagon" should fit! I guess on the bright side, most of this will be sanded off anyway, leaving only what's filling the holes. I used the same Bondo glazing putty I got at Advance Auto. Can't say I'm really fond of it. Need to find something better. Problem with this putty is that it shrinks when it drys. I have to admit, I'm not being too particular about the underside of the fuse where it won't show as much. Can't see adding the additional weight of putty, since most of the plane is gloss black anyway. Just the top of the plane is camo on this particular model.
Randy
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Old 11-30-2003, 06:03 AM
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Jimmy Bananas
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Default RE: C-130 items

Randy:

Damn,your pin holes are in the same place as mine where..Of course,the main seams on top and bottom needed the bando...Yep,it do shirk,but you just refill the hole again and sand...Still looking for a good camo paint scheme.......................
Old 11-30-2003, 11:07 AM
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rryman
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Default RE: C-130 items

The nice thing about a camo finish is that if you're off a little one way or the other, no one will know! I found some real good camo paint that I used on my AC-47, and I think I have enough left to do this one. I hope so, cause the store that had it here no longer carries it. The colors were right on. Got the servos hooked up on the elevators and ailerons this morning. That worked out well.
Randy
Old 12-02-2003, 12:23 AM
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rryman
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Default RE: C-130 items

Well, I sanded off most of the putty tonight. I'm ready to predict that I am going to come in under 20# on this bird if I don't get too carried away with the paint. I believe I'm ready to put on the chart tape for the panel lines and put on the final coat of primer. I've never used this chart tape stuff before so that will be a new experience for me. I'm going to wait until I'm ready to paint the thing before putting on the tape, since I've heard of some problems with the tape sticking. The tape I have isn't exactly new stuff so I'll put it on, spray it and take it back off shortly. A few little dents and dings won't be a big deal. One of the A-26's I worked on in Thailand in the mid-sixties is now on display at the Air Force Museum. The first comment I made to the wife when I saw it was, "It look better now than I ever saw it." I'm sure Jimcork will confirm that cosmetics wasn't the first priority in a combat zone! Oh well, that's my excuse for the imperfections that show up!
Randy
Old 12-02-2003, 12:44 PM
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Default RE: C-130 items

Man, I am really far behind.... and DAMN.... I had thought that I was the only one thinking of doing an AC130. My documentation for the AC comes from the "First Lady" AC in the USAF Musemum in Ft. Walton Beach. I think it is the A version of the plane. I recently bought a helicopter so my time has been spread out. I am still going to work on this thing, but it is going slow.
Bill R.

PS Jim I still want to come down sometime.
Old 12-02-2003, 12:50 PM
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Default RE: C-130 items

Hey rryman... what type of putty did you use? Is it Bondo?
Old 12-02-2003, 05:56 PM
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rryman
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Default RE: C-130 items

I'm doing the AC-130A version, after the one nicknamed "Thor". If I'm not mistaken, the one at the AF Armament Museum is the very first C-130 the Air Force took delivery on. Had quite an impressive record before being retired.
Unfortunately, "Thor" wasn't so lucky.
=======Yes, I'm using Bondo putty, bought at Advance. Of course, after I'm about done I find out about something else that's supposed to be pretty good and doesn't shrink. Maybe I'll try that next time. Primed my cowlings tonight and will have to give them a shot of putty here and there.
Randy
Old 12-02-2003, 06:14 PM
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jimcork1
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Default 130 Flaps

You are right the real herk takes off with 50% flaps. I have over 1000 hrs as Pilot and Instructor Pilot, However the model only has .30 4 strokes and not 30,000 SHP Pratts with Hamilton Standard props. The 1/2 flaps (about 25 degrees) will work but the take off is not as spectacular nor as steep. Just looks really cool with the steep take off. WARNING.. IF you lose an engine on the steep take off,,,, you might lose the bird. If you lose an engine,, go to idle and land as well as you can.

Mine came in at 23.5 #'s and flies well. Lazy me I haven't fixed the stab yet,, but today started on another "big bird",,

Wife saw it and [:'(], Told me I have to repaint the door,, fix tv cabinet and [>:][>:][>:]

However,, I do have the wing layed out and ready to glue..

My flaps are est:

1/2 25 degrees
Full 45 degrees

I use 2 panels on the main wing only. I did not put them on the removable panels.

I will post pic since previous thread was apparently deleted. Jim
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