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New at twins

Old 02-24-2004, 04:24 AM
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RustyTumbles
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Default New at twins

Hi, I am very interested in getting into twin or multi engine models!! However I'm not sure where to start.. There aren't that many twin arf kits available here in Australia but I do have my eye on the c160 transall made by CMpro. Is this a good model to start with? I have read good and bad things about this kit. Can anyone help?
Old 02-26-2004, 08:39 PM
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twinman
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Default RE: New at twins

My two cents, bash a single into a twin. There are several posts here in this forum about how to do it. Use the search function. Much easier flying, less expensive, quicker, and usually better trainer, than a heavy expensive scale bird.........There will be lots of time for that. Go the simple cheap route first. Tried the other way and it is not fun or cheap. If you wish, use the engines from your planned project.
Good Luck,
Twinman
Old 03-10-2004, 11:02 PM
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tonystro
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Default RE: New at twins

Many, many years ago I was bitten by the twin engine bug, about 1974 as I recall. I spent about sixteen years building and flying, then over ten years of too much work and no flying. Returned to the sport a little over a year ago and, like riding a bicycle, I remembered how. Just had to sharpen the eye-hand reactions. For the past few months I have been reading all the posts on the Twin Engine and Warbirds forums, and all the information at rcwarbirds. A few weeks ago (while flight testing some arf warbirds for fellow club members) I decided the only cure for the itch I've had for so many years was to buy/build/fly a twin.

twinman, even though I've chosen to not follow your advice about kitbashing, I will be applying much of the knowledge I have gained from your many posts and articles. Thanks for sharing. And thanks to all the posters who take time to share their experiences to help us learn to avoid the more costly 'crash-n-burn' method of gaining experience on our own!

That said, for your suggestions and comments, here's my plan -- I'm beginning with a Twinstar powered by dependable OS .40 LAs with about 7 hours of flying time without a glitch. I'm anticipating getting 10-15 hours experience at pitting and flying it before moving up to my VQ A-26, with ASP 52s. If I find I really truly am insane, I have the 55" Ultravitch OV-10 and a World Models P-82 as follow on aircraft. Yeah, I went on a buying spree! Hopefully, my plan is not too ambitious.
Old 03-11-2004, 01:37 AM
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William Robison
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Default RE: New at twins

Tony:

No plan is too ambitious when afflicted with "Twinsanity."

Welcome to the asylum.

Bill.
Old 03-11-2004, 08:49 AM
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twinman
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Default RE: New at twins

"Twinsanity."
I need to write that one down!!!
Twinman
Old 03-11-2004, 09:51 AM
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sbaugz
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Default RE: New at twins

twinman, I have to disagree slightly with your first post. Bigsport was inquiring about the C160 and you mentioned that scale warbirds are all big and heavy. Quite the contrary, the C160 is very light and has a high wing. Although I have not flown mine yet, I have read lots of posts suggesting that this plane flies very nicely and floats along almost like a trainer. At $299, its not that bad as far as price is concerned.
Old 03-11-2004, 02:10 PM
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twinman
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Default RE: New at twins

sbaugz
Perhaps you are right. I admit, I have not flown that model, but would be surprised if it "Flew Like a trainer". The shape of the wings really does not lend itself to light wing loading, but please let us know your impresssons after you have flown it. I would agree that the price does sound good, if it is easy to fly and control........With one engine. The rudder size should be a big help.
Good Luck,
Twinman
Old 03-26-2004, 05:42 PM
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mpriestley
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Default RE: New at twins

just a quick note to questions regarding the c160 as a twin trainer.

I would not suggest this. I have the c160 and though it is light and relatively easy to fly, when you loose an engine it is a bit more tricky then the Twinstar as well the c160 arf comes with very very poor quality as far as the glue and the overall skeleton of the plane. and all the linkage and connectors, clevises and bolts are trash on the GSP C160.

so in the end I would highly recommend the twinstar first then look at the c160.

Twinstar can handle a much tougher landing than that of the c160.

my 2 cents...
Old 03-26-2004, 06:43 PM
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tonystro
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Default RE: New at twins

Bill,

Sorry about the delay in responding to your note.....been 'earning', so I can have more funds to support the 'twinsanity' you mention. Gosh, I like that phrase!

My Twinstar is nearly ready for initial engine run-ups. Both OS .40 LAs are worn in, having 10-15 flights each on my Sig 'Somthing Extra'. I need to finish a -check it all one more time- then I will be ready to set up and fine tuning the throttle curves. If not tomorrow, then on Sunday. I don't have a transmitter with which I can utilize computer mixing, so will utilize a Y-harness and the mechanical hints and kinks you and twinman have shared in many postings will work out as simple as you make them sound. May do some taxing and acceleration tests, depending on how things go before and during the vertical tests. The 'plan' is to keep the Twinstar on the ground this time, develop and engine start/test procedure, build confidence in the engines, and, finally, to perform a thorough, post-test check for loose hardware, etc. I realize that all of this may not be necessary for a Twinstar, but I want to develop knowledge, skills and habits that will minimize difficulties when I begin flying my twin warbirds...

With success this weekend, hopefully next weekend I will join the ranks of Pilot, Multi-engine, R/C Model!

Tony
Old 03-27-2004, 06:17 PM
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henryhighwood
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Default RE: New at twins

Well Tony, How did it go?
Post some details.
Old 03-28-2004, 09:29 AM
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tonystro
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Default RE: New at twins

henry,

No details to report.[&o] Unforeseen situation, work related, kept me from getting the plane to the field yesterday, and today Mother Nature has intervened with mist, wind, etc. Reminders me of my years in the Air Force..... "hurry up and wait". So, like the Saturday matinees from my childhood, to be continued........
Old 03-28-2004, 11:37 AM
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JAkridge
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Default RE: New at twins

What about a GP P-38 for a first time Twin ????????
Cheap Kit Price 90.00 - 100.00
2 ea Cheap Engines
Standard servos
Misc. parts
Can be flying for around 450.00 -500.00. I hope...
Starting this kit now. Looks like fun
Old 04-03-2004, 02:57 PM
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tonystro
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Default RE: New at twins

At first it seemed that today was going to be a repeat of last weekend's frustration. Work-related phone call at 6:00AM...but resolved the problem without having to go in. However, I was nearly an hour behind schedule. I had promised to 'first flight' a fellow club member's plane, and expected two students for training sessions on this nearly windless morning, and tomorrow is a "no fly day" reserved for the motocross racers (we share the north end of the flying area).

In between assisting the three other flyers, and a couple of flights on my Funtana to calm my nerves, I was able to set both engine's top end and idle....although the right engine kept wanting to load up and die whenever below 30% throttle. I resisted the urgings of the 'cheering section', and kept the Twinstar on the ground while repeating the fueling and start up routines to ensure that I could get the engines started, tweaked and tested with minimum fuel consumption. Also verified that neither engine cared whether it was horizontal or vertical, top rpm within 250 revs, with high idle within 300revs of each other. The dual throttle servos were really closely matched in movement speed, and the engines sounded nearly synched through the entire power band.

Due to time factors, and a very busy field, I wasn't able to get a flight in and headed home. However, we are experiencing the most gorgeous weather since last fall and.... I just had to get in a flight. Just after noon my son stopped by for a visit. I enlisted his help and flew one flight out of the pasture across the road from my home. A bit rough, but I was able to maintain full control through three taxi tests. Refueled, started the engines, vertical test, set it on the ground and smoothly feed in the power. At about 3/4 throttle, she was soon airborne and climbing smoothly. All , without fanfare...... where were the 76 trombones and the violins and such?

A little down, and a little right, trim and I was flying, it behaved just like a trainer..... with a way too cool sound!! The OS 40 LA's hauled it around, with authority, at about half throttle. Although I had timed two "run the tanks dry" runs at the field (7 minutes at 3/4 throttle), I didn't press my luck and landed six minutes after engine start. With throttle three clicks above idle the Twinstar settled in to a smooth approach descent, and an uneventful touchdown on the mains. It's a great feeling to have joined the ranks of multi-engine pilots!

My deepest thanks to all of you for your encouragement and advice over the past few weeks! I am especially grateful to the many contributors who have shared their experiences, and the wisdom they have gined from those experiences!!

<edited for many speeling and grammar errors>
Old 04-03-2004, 05:55 PM
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Chig
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Default RE: New at twins

woot ! Congratulations I am still fussing with my own TwinStar that I aquired some weeks ago. It has a pair of OS 40 LA's on it also. Perhaps in a couple more weeks I can repeat your success for myself Enjoy
Old 04-03-2004, 06:26 PM
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Default RE: New at twins

Welcome aboard!!
Now, what is the next twin??,triple,four or five??
Twinman
Old 04-03-2004, 09:04 PM
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tonystro
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Default RE: New at twins

twig --

Obviously with only one flight, I haven't had enough time to truly evaluate the Twinstar. However, I believe that the 40 LAs are the ticket. One of the more experienced members of this group had posted a message regarding them. During my takeoff and short flight, I learned that I had the power, if needed, and that throttled back (near 1/2) the Twinstar believed quite well. Triple check all your hardware for security, double check your control surface throws, be truly confident that your engines are reliable (as twinman and Will both stress.....vertical test them) and I do believe that you will enjoy your Twinstar.

OH, and be very critical in balancing the propellers!! I thought both of mine were properly balanced, and I didn't notice any undue vibration during the initial one-at-a-time engine test and set up. Knew they were well balanced....until I had both engines running at 11 thousand rpm! Double the engines....triple the vibration effect!

twinman --

I will be using the Twinstar to educate myself on some of the in-n-outs of operating and flying a twin. It is the beginning step to warbird twins. My A-26 (VQ) has the engines and servos mounted and is awaiting final attention to be flight worthy. However, I think I want to get a 7 or 8 channel transmitter before I fly it, so I can mix the throttle servos. A few hours of twin time experience, perhaps dozens of hours, and I'll assemble my P-82, Twin Mustang (World Models). I have a 52 inch OV-10 kit scheduled for building next winter.

Definately, I am "twinsane!"

I can't imagine me transitioning to 3- or 5- engine craft, like somone I've seen post here. However, I occasionally think about modelling a C-130 Hecules, probably because I have been working on/around them for 24 years. Even though I have been following the C-130 thread quite closely, I just don't see how a scale, or near scale, wing could provide acceptable performance. But the kitters and scratch builders seem to be getting the job done!
Old 04-03-2004, 09:19 PM
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tonystro
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Default RE: New at twins

ORIGINAL: Warbirdnutty

What about a GP P-38 for a first time Twin ????????
Cheap Kit Price 90.00 - 100.00
2 ea Cheap Engines
Standard servos
Misc. parts
Can be flying for around 450.00 -500.00. I hope...
Starting this kit now. Looks like fun
I missed your post until today...sorry. I don't know anything about the GP P-38, however, there is a thread going elsewhere on the message boards. You might check out the many posts, I don't remember seeing any real problems, but there were several tips and techniques type of posts.
Old 04-03-2004, 09:21 PM
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William Robison
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Default RE: New at twins

Tony"

C COngratulations, and welcome to the asylum.

And while I personally think your choice of engines is execrable, they are a very good match to the Twinstar.

Bill.
Old 04-03-2004, 10:40 PM
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Default RE: New at twins

"execrable"
Uh, has someone been in the "Power word for the day" book again??
Twinman
PS I think he approves???
Old 04-03-2004, 10:51 PM
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William Robison
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Default RE: New at twins

Oh, come on, George.

"Execrable" is a very good word. It's not as blunt as coming right out and calling the LAs either pure aromatic excrement, odoriferous feces, or just plain smelly crap, but it gets the idea across.

Haw.

Bill.
Old 04-04-2004, 10:32 AM
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Blue Sky
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Default RE: New at twins

Hi Guys,
I'd like to become twinsane too LOL [sm=spinnyeyes.gif] ultimately a largish warbird, but that'll come later, much later. But, as you all would recommend, I need something to learn on first.

Living here in the U.K. means I don't have access to the same range of products (unfortunately) as you lucky chaps and importing kits gets pretty expensive when our taxes are slapped on top of the price so I was wondering if you could help with a few questions I had please...

1] Does anybody know of any U.K. kits that would make a good twin-trainer?
2] How about recommended plans to scratch build from as they would be easier & cheaper to import (but nothing from Model Airplane News or RC Store as I've dealt with them before and it was a nightmare).
3] Bashing a single into a twin - I've tried to search but the RCU engine kept returning with nothing [sm=confused.gif]. Can anyone point me directly to the threads or give me a few tips as to what to look for in a single that'll make it a good twin?

I'm not even adverse to starting from scratch proper and designing one myself if you could point me in the right direction (twin rudders preferably, engines close to fus, anythinng else? Hmmm, something vaguely based on a warbird would be nice ).

Any and all advice/tips will be greatly appreciated - thanks!

Blue
Old 04-04-2004, 12:13 PM
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Blue Sky
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Default RE: New at twins

Oops, I just realised that this forum only shows posts fom the last 30 days so I altered that to show all posts and have found some from Twinman re. bashing a single into a twin. Apologies for my stupidity [sm=bananahead.gif] Answers to the other questions, if poss, would be cool. Thanks.
Old 04-04-2004, 12:15 PM
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Default RE: New at twins

Hi, I too am new at twins, sorta. I started about 5 years ago with the top Flite DC3. During construction of the DC 3 I bought the Hobbico TwinStar and mounted a pair of wankles. Started test running the engines, very smooth. However work reared its ugly head and I was traveling to various customers installing equipment, then to a permanent location . No time for hobby stuff. I am now retired. The Twin star has been re engined with a pair of MDS .29s and awaits spring weather for break in and testing. Still snow on the ground here in western Maine. I an puttont the finishing touches on a NorthEast Aerodynamics Twin Air .45 . A pair of GMS .47 will power that. Work on the DC 3 will soon start back up. The nacells need to be finished then sanding and filling and sanding and covering, monocote. Enjoy reading all the comments in the Twin Forums, lots of good advice . FLYALOT.
Old 04-04-2004, 02:29 PM
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William Robison
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Default RE: New at twins

Blue:

No problem sir, stupidity is a prerequisite for attaining twinsanity. You're in good (good?) company.

JoeFly:

Both of your sport twins fly very well on a single engine, but the MDS engines on your Twinstar aren't going to give you truly sparkling performance. Should be very nice as trainer, though. Remember not to horse it around, be gentle with it and it will be fine.

The Twin-Air will be a lot faster, easier to get in trouble with. Full aerobatic capabilities will be there, except possibly no unlimited vertical.

I've heard good things about the GMS engines, but I've never flown one - no personal experience. At the same time, many have cursed the MDS, but my experience has been all good with them.

When you are doing well with the Twin-Air, get the soon to be released Duel-Air 2/60 from Northeast Aero. Power it properly and you will have a "Pattern Capable" airplane that will give all the vertical you want.

Bill.
Old 04-04-2004, 11:19 PM
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Default RE: New at twins

Blue,

I suppose kit bashing would be your best bet, but if you want an interesting quasi-warbird, check out this thread.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/Twin...1624610/tm.htm

You might try getting John Marien at NE Aero to sell you the plans only (with the twin rudder option) for his Twin Air 45.

Check his website: http://ne-aero.com/

John

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