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C160 transall build

Old 04-06-2004, 04:53 AM
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RustyTumbles
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Default C160 transall build

Hi all,

I am new to twins and I have decided to build the CMPro c160 transall ARF. I was just after some input to this kit!! Is the hardware good? or should it be replaced with better stuff? Are there any weak points in the kit that I should reinforce while building? (i.e. Wing joints, undercarriage attachment points, etc) Also what are the flying characteristics of this plane like? I plan to run OS 25fx motors with 2 blade 9x6 props. Will those motors and props work well? Or should I use 3 blade props? I will post photos too, when I get the kit and throughout the build. Just need to know how to post photos!!!!
Old 04-06-2004, 10:08 PM
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rryman
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Default RE: C160 transall build

Welcome to the Transall world. There are some other threads on here that have a good bit of info on them. I am running OS .25LA engines on mine, and it's plenty of power. The .25FX should really do a job.
I think the kit overall is great. Nice work on the fiberglass and paint. I had no complaints about that.
What I was not impressed with was the axle hardware for the nose gear. It promptly stripped out for me, so I silver soldered my own. Can't really think of anything else that I had a problem with. I did increase the size of the wing hold down bolts from what they were. They just looked a little small for me, but may have been OK, since the fuselage is very light. All in all, the whole plane finishes out to be very light. I don't fly mine in windy conditions. I did once, but it wasn't pretty, it gets bounced around a bit. someone else on one of the C-160 threads is from Australia too.
Good luck,
Randy
Old 04-07-2004, 05:08 AM
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Default RE: C160 transall build

It looks like a great kit. I have wanted one for a while, but I was more into aerobatic models. Now that I have 3 of them, and 2 gliders I wish to try a new part of our hobby!!! What size props are you running on your .25LA's? What size are the fuel tanks? How long are your flights? Does the elevator use a single servo or two? It looks like it's a split elevator.

I have read that trying to get the engines into sync is a waste of time as the rpms constantly change with the load on the prop, yet others swear by it. What the best way to go? I think that the transition and reliability is more important than top end rpm's!! Is this right?

Has anyone got any pics of a c160 to post? Maybe some of the radio setup, and engine nacelles.
Old 04-07-2004, 03:29 PM
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rryman
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Default RE: C160 transall build

What size props are you running on your .25LA's?
=======Pretty sure I'm running 9 x 5 Master Airscrews, two blade. Three blades just wouldn't cut it.
What size are the fuel tanks?
======= I believe thye are 6oz tanks. They come with the kit, and I used what they sent.
How long are your flights?
=======I do not fly that long at a time, maybe 10 minutes or so, but I've always had plenty of fuel left. You can't fly it wide open if you want scale looking flight. I usually fly a little above half throttle.

Does the elevator use a single servo or two?
I am using one servo for the elevators, which are indeed split. Each half has a control rod which is joined inside the fuse to a dowel. Wasn't crazy about that arrangement, but it did work out nice.

I have read that trying to get the engines into sync is a waste of time as the rpms constantly change with the load on the prop, yet others swear by it. What the best way to go? I think that the transition and reliability is more important than top end rpm's!! Is this right?
=========I've always heard that the rule of thumb is if you get them within 500rpm of each other you're good to go. I Run up each engine separately, then tune (richen) the strongest engine to the weakest one. I've had no problems, and you are correct, it's been nearly impossible to keep them together at all rpm settings. After the first flight and I see what throttle setting I want to fly at most of the time, that's where I shoot to get them humming, and sometimes do this by ear as well as using a tach. Course, everyone has their own opinion. Now when it comes to 4 engines, you can't hardly listen to them and tell which one is lagging. On my C-130, I tuned each engine individually, (per another member on this group),tested for vertical performance by holding the engine vertical, then shut it down and started the next one, etc. etc. When I was satisfied with all 4, I went flying. Working out great so far. I'm like you, I am after avoiding an in flight failure.
I had a problem last year with my transall when one engine kept increasing rpm over the other one in flight, but couldn't really notice any difference until I was landing, and the plane kept wanting to go left, just like you had left rudder trim in. I blamed it on the wind the first landing, but soon found out the engine back plate screws were coming out.
I'll get a pic of mine and post. If you need any other pics on the inside, I'll send them direct.
Randy

Has anyone got any pics of a c160 to post? Maybe some of the radio setup, and engine nacelles.
Old 04-07-2004, 03:51 PM
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Default RE: C160 transall build

Here's some pics of mine. the radio installation is very straight forward. the nacelles are a little tight to work in, but manageable. For attaching the nacelles, I marked the holes then glued in short pieces of the inner yellow tubing on nyrod into the wing for the nacelle screws to go into. Don't think they would have held much in the balsa sheeting.
Randy
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Old 04-07-2004, 08:50 PM
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Default RE: C160 transall build

rryman,
In regard to your last question about C130 pics, I don't have any. But all your info on the C130 caused me to build one. I'm just painting it now. Probably ready to fly in a couple weeks. I really appreciate all the tips and pictures you guys made available. I'm using Magnum 30 4 strokes for power. Maybe flaps, I don't know yet. I can't believe how light its coming out to be, 12-14 pounds! I want to thank you for all the pictures you posted. They really made it easy for me. I pretty much followed your advice on building it. We think alot alike on many things. I'll let you know how it flys.

Bob S

e-mail CADPLANES@aol.com
Old 04-08-2004, 01:58 AM
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Default RE: C160 transall build

Thanks for the pics, thats a great looking bird. Does it fly as well as it looks? More pics would be good!! I'm stock pilling them for future reference. I've read that the instuctions are pretty poor, so I want to get a good heads up on what to do!!!

I thought the nacelles would be already built into the wings rather than screwed on! some pics of the nacelles and the attachment would be great!!!

Are the throttle servos in the wings or the nacelles? Do they use mini or micro servos? Do you use any special mixers on this bird, such as flaperons or aren't they needed?

Sorry to ask so many questions, but I really want to build this kit perfectly and minimize the teething period and spend more time flying!!!!

I should get the kit soon (I'm still saving)
Old 04-09-2004, 10:20 PM
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Default RE: C160 transall build

I ordered my engines today!! Got them from tower hobbies, 2x OS 25fx for $265 bucks Australian, including two 9x6 apc props and postage. Which is pretty dam cheap in comparison with the prices here!!!! Here they sell just the engine for $215 dollars each. They should be here in 10-30 days, although last time I ordered something from tower hobbies it got here in 5 days. Excellent service!!!!

Now I need to save really hard to buy the kit soon!!! I can't wait to start building.

How do you post pics? I'll post some pics of the engines when I get them for practice!!!!!
Old 04-09-2004, 11:36 PM
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rryman
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Default RE: C160 transall build

Thanks for the pics, thats a great looking bird. Does it fly as well as it looks?

========Flying? I've flown trainers that didn't fly as good as the C-160. It has no bad tendencies. Course, I haven't experienced an engine out situation yet either!

I thought the nacelles would be already built into the wings rather than screwed on! some pics of the nacelles and the attachment would be great!!!

=======I'll get the wing out and remove a cowling and get some pics. Planning on trying to fly it tomorrow afternoon weather permitting. Sunday looks like more rain. I didn't get any of it during the assembly process. I guess I should clear up something here. What I am referring to as "Nacelles" is in reality probably the "Cowlings", depending on how you look at it. The wood framework to mount the engines on is already installed on the wing. What I am referring to being screwed on is the Cowlings, which I guess are the Nacelles. there is a top piece that basically covers the engine and the bottom piece which extends almost to the back of the wing covers the fuel tank and throttle servo. These two pieces simply wrap up all the mechanical stuff. I also reinforced the edges of these nacelles, although they are fiberglass and not plastic, I added some reinforcement where the screws go through in the form of 1/32 ply strips.
There is also a cut out for the throttle servo mount behind the fuel tank location. I used it, but for some reason ended up cutting some of the ply out. Don't remember why. And yes, each engine has it's own servo. the smaller one you use the better. I've really become fond of the Hitech HS-81MG servos for throttles. small and fairly powerful-and reasonable.

Do you use any special mixers on this bird, such as flaperons or aren't they needed?

==========I have flaperons working on the plane, but can't really tell any difference in using them or not using them. The plane lands nice and slow, nose high and settles on the mains, then the nose comes down. Just the reverse for take off. In fact, After I start my take off roll, I put in a little elevator, the nose comes up and it simply rides along on the mains until it starts flying. Makes for beautiful take offs.

Sorry to ask so many questions,.......................................

=====hey, if you don't ask questions, you probably won't get many answers. I've always been the type to ask questons myself. And, I've learned from it. It's one of the things I like most about this hobby, (not to mention RCU) is others willingness to help out. Ask away. I do not propose to know everything, but if I don't know, I'll tell you.
I'll get some pics posted tomorrow of the engine compartment.
Randy
Old 04-11-2004, 12:31 AM
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Default RE: C160 transall build

Thanks for all the info!!!! I was talking to the guys at my field today and some of them were trying to talk me out of building a twin. They say that alot of them crash when an engine dies as it goes into a spin!!! Are the really that hard to fly on one engine? I think if you have good powerful engines that are tuned right before you fly, then there should not be a problem!!! I mean if you aren't doing aerobatics and your just cruising around and not idling the engines for too long then the should not stop unless you run out of fuel!!! Is that a valid theory?

That was the main reason I decided to use the OS 25fx as I have 2 OS 46fx motors and the are super reliable and plenty of grunt. So I figure the OS 25fx would be the same.

Is it a good idea to have the model overpowered slightly incase of an engine out on takeoff or something like that? Would you be able to just give some rudder and keep the power on and climb away slowly?

Also do you need to add right and down thrust to the engines on a twin?
Old 04-11-2004, 07:34 AM
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Default RE: C160 transall build

Date 4/11/2004 1:31:25 AM
Thanks for all the info!!!! I was talking to the guys at my field today and some of them were trying to talk me out of building a twin. They say that alot of them crash when an engine dies as it goes into a spin!!!
======There is probably some truth to that. I saw a Royal P-38 once that lost an engine at very high altitude, it went into a spin and the pilot who was very experienced could not recover it before impact, even with the other engine at idle. The plane was however, very heavy.
The other one I saw was a Pica Duellest. The guy flying it was making a turn real far out and it was in a spin before he knew anything was wrong. I attributed this to the way sound travels. He was at least 2000' out, so there was about a 2 second delay in what was happening at the plane until he heard it. That one also hit the ground.
I had a Royal B-25 that lost an engine in flight, and I didn't know it except for the fact that it slowed down. I attributed it's good handling qualities to the fact that the twin rudders helped, with one in each air stream. I did crash that one, but due to pilot error and not the engines.
=======As far as the "Don't build one or you might crash it" theory, I can only say, "Nothing ventured, nothing gained."


Are the really that hard to fly on one engine? I think if you have good powerful engines that are tuned right before you fly, then there should not be a problem!!! I mean if you aren't doing aerobatics and your just cruising around and not idling the engines for too long then the should not stop unless you run out of fuel!!! Is that a valid theory?
========Basically, I'm not an expert on the engine out thing, since I've only experienced one. If you can get Twinman or someone with more experience than me, it would be good.

Is it a good idea to have the model overpowered slightly incase of an engine out on takeoff or something like that? Would you be able to just give some rudder and keep the power on and climb away slowly?
======Personally, I think that an overpowered twin with an engine out may get you in deeper trouble than with one which doesn't have that much power.

Also do you need to add right and down thrust to the engines on a twin?
=========There's been a lot of discussion on this topic on RCU .Do a search and I'm sure you will find that information.

Randy
Old 04-11-2004, 02:32 PM
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Default RE: C160 transall build

Here are some pics of mine. I use two OS FS 30 four stroke engines with 8x8 three blade props. My engines are mounted a little differently than most others with the C160. Most people are mounting them on their sides. I mounted my four strokes inverted to preserve the looks of the cowling. The plane has not been flown yet due to the cold and snow yet in wisconsin. I have had the engines running and was able to taxi around my yard. The engines run great. I hope to fly mine soon. From what others have told me, you shouldn't have to worry a whole lot about an engine going out. THe rudder is absolutely huge and should help control the plane if an engine goes out. Also, the nacelles are mounted fairly close to the fuselage which helps too.
Building was pretty easy and straightforward. I didn't deviate from the plans at all. Used 6 standard servos in mine. Enjoy the pics





Old 04-11-2004, 03:19 PM
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rryman
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Default RE: C160 transall build

Nice lookng plane. I assume that is the camo scheme that they are now offering from GSP?
Randy
Old 04-11-2004, 04:17 PM
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Default RE: C160 transall build

Yes it is the camo version. Its slightly different than the white version. THe fuselage is painted fiberglass. THe wing is built up balsa, covered in fabric, and painted to match. I believe the white version is balsa sheeted foam wing.
Old 04-11-2004, 04:22 PM
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Default RE: C160 transall build

bigsport, which version are you going to order?
When you get it, do a search on the internet for the real c160 if you want to add your own scheme or decals to it. You might want to decal it to match a real one out there like I did with my camo one. Believe it or not, those WW1 type markings on mine were really used by the modern German airforce on this plane. The C160's were made in France and used by the french, germans, and swiss. The United States never used them, to my knowledge.
Old 04-11-2004, 07:59 PM
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Default RE: C160 transall build

As far as I know the only version available here is the white and gray. Which has the foam core wings and fibreglass fuse!! I have done a search for the real ones and the only operators of this aircraft are the french, the germans, the swiss, and the U.N.!! The United States nerver used them as far as I know. They have always used the C130's....
The version here is made buy CMPro not GSP. Is it the same plane just labeled differently?

In an engine out situation, if you have powerful engines and you are careful with throttle application wouldn't it be easier to get out of trouble down low? As you would have the power there to increase airspeed faster and therefore be able to climb early than with less powerfull engines? As long as you don't slam the throttle forward? If you have altitude when you lose an engine is it best to cut the throttle and call a deadstick landing??

I agree with you on the nothing ventured nothing gained theroy!!! Multi engine aircraft are one area of our hobby that I'm yet to explore!! And I am very excited about building and flying the C160. Should be alot of fun and turn alot of heads!!!
Old 04-11-2004, 09:15 PM
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Default RE: C160 transall build

Yes, the CMpro, and Flair(in the UK) and GSP (USA) all sell the same version of the C160. They are all made by China Model Products. That would be really cool to see one of these decked out in UN scheme.

Maybe the experts can back me up on this one, but the most important thing in an engine out situation is having a rudder that can counteract the extra torque produced by having only one engine working. In an engine out, the plane will tend to turn towards the engine out because of the torque of the firing engine. In that situation, you need to either drop the throttle down in the working engine to lessen the torque on that side, or you need to have an effective enough rudder to couteract that working engines torque. Apparantly the C160 works well in an engine out situation because it does have a very large rudder. All you need to do, is realize that the engine is out and provide rudder input to couteract it.

Another option is to put an inexpensive gyro on the rudder servo. The gyro will automatically provide the rudder input needed to stabilize the plane. I have heard of people using this technique, although it probably isn't necessary in the C160.
Old 04-11-2004, 10:04 PM
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Default RE: C160 transall build

I'm still looking for a few pics of the U.N. C160's, if I can find some I may refinish the model in that colour sceme!! If I can't then I'll just stick with the oringinal white and gray. Which is quite good. (I think so anyway).

So I should try and get as much throw on the rudder as possible? In case I have an engine out.
Old 04-12-2004, 06:28 AM
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Default RE: C160 transall build

yes, get as much throw as possible on the rudder.
Old 04-13-2004, 03:28 AM
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Default RE: C160 transall build

Should I run two or three bladed props on the 25fx's? I have got a set of 9x6 and 9x5 two blades. Which one do you guys think will work the best? Will three bladed props give better or worse performance?
Old 04-14-2004, 03:52 AM
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Default RE: C160 transall build

Does anyone have or know of any videos of the c160 in flight!

Still havin't found any pics of the U.N. C160's so I think I'll stay with the original covering. Maybe just make some Royal Australian Air Force decals for it! What do you guys think! Our C130E Hercules had a very similar colour sceme, maybe it could look like what could have been if we operated C160's.....

Got a conformation e-mail saying the OS25fx's have left Tower Hobbies, so they should be here soon!!!

Should have the kit in the next few weeks too!!!
Old 04-14-2004, 06:28 AM
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Default RE: C160 transall build

haven't seen any videos of the c160.

australian markings should look pretty cool.

If I were you, I would stick with the two blade props, more efficient.

I fired mine up yesterday and drove it around the driveway. Still trying to get the engines running good.
Old 04-15-2004, 03:26 AM
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Default RE: C160 transall build

I'll stay with the two bladed props then! I wasn't sure whether or not prop efficiency was a big issue on this bird.

I found a pic of a U.N. C160 but the colour sceme is pretty boring. It white with a black nose and leading edges and a few U.N. markings on the fuse and wings.

How much fuel do you recomend putting through the engines before I fly? I usually only put 3-4 tanks through a new motor before I fly. Then I finish running in the motors airborne. Is this a common practice with twins? Or do you guys tend to do more running in on the ground?

My running in procedure is usually 2-3 tanks for initial break in, next tank for top end mixture (usually just comming on to lean) , idle mixture/ speed and throttle transition. And one more tank just to be sure every thing is sweet! Then over the next 10-15 flights I will slowly wind the high end needle in until at the best setting. With only very minor changes after that for weather conditions if any at all....

Is it ok to do it that way and just make sure the engines are at very similar settings until fully run in? Or is it better to run them in one at a time then when happy sync them and go fly?
Old 04-15-2004, 03:46 AM
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Default RE: C160 transall build

I've just become another C-160'er !

It's looking great in the box, just disappointed that they didn't include decals, I mean, at least windscreen & window decals would have been rather useful.
Nice camouflage paint job too, but I'm inclined to add-on a third tan colour & white undersides to the current light/dark green to mimic the USAF Vietnam scheme. Still can't decide which nationality to model.
I'm torn between using ASP 4-stroke 30's or 2-stroke 25's... I had the intention of using the 4-strokes, but I'm just not sure whether the unstable low-end & retarded transition of ASPs (as compared to more responsive 2-strokes) is wise.
Opinions & experience, anybody?

Thanks!
Old 04-16-2004, 02:26 AM
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Default RE: C160 transall build

Got my engines today!!!! Damn Tower hobbies has great service!!!!

I will try and post some pics of them soon. Still having trouble posting pics!

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