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View Poll Results: A poll
I would buy a Gold Edition P-38.
86.39%
I'd like to see a Gold Edition P-38 but wouldn't buy one.
7.10%
I'm have no interest in a Gold Edition P-38.
6.51%
Voters: 169. You may not vote on this poll

Top Flight p-38

Old 12-15-2004, 09:50 PM
  #26  
dionysusbacchus
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Default RE: Top Flight p-38

I would have to say NO, I don't want to see one. I've seen enough of the gold edition kits, the scale outline would be so far off it would be ugly. I don't like semi scale planes, why do manufacturers make semi scale fuselages anyway? If there is one thing you can make scale with almost no penalty it's the fuselage! I would like to see the "Do It Right Edition" though. I don't think TF has "North American" on their Mustang box, so they should just call the P-38 the Lightning, don't put Lockheed on the box.

Dion
Old 12-17-2004, 01:17 PM
  #27  
bob27s
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Default RE: Top Flight p-38

Interesting reading

Visit the DJ Aerotec site. They dropped thier Lockheed products. Explaination here
http://www.djaerotech.com/index1.html

Apparently DJ Aerotec stopped production of their P-38 and Electra models after "extortion" set it. There was mention that EMI was involved. Not sure, but it seems like EMI bought "publishing rights" to the aircraft ???

Bob
Old 12-17-2004, 02:01 PM
  #28  
HalH
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Default RE: Top Flight p-38

Just a couple of days ago I was talking to a person with Ratheon Corp who bought Beechcraft out. I asked if they could get me some T34 info and the response was that they no longer had any of the info. They said it had been turned over to the US Government since it was a military airplane that was no longer being produced.
Old 12-17-2004, 03:07 PM
  #29  
TexasAirBoss
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Default RE: Top Flight p-38

Well. I am just Amazed by this legal stuff !!!

If'n it all goes right, I might buy one of them P-38's if the size suits me.

So, what do I owe them for that scrtached C-130 about ten years ago ??

It seems to me the American people have already compensated the company. Live by the lawyer and die by the lawyer.

Forget about writing Lockheed, write CNN, ABC, CBS, ABC, FOX, MSNBC, Time, etc. Let Lockeed get there moneys worth of advertising for this extremely petty behavior.

Just see if I buy another airplane from Lockheed !!!
Old 12-17-2004, 10:52 PM
  #30  
FalconWings
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Default RE: Top Flight p-38

ORIGINAL: bob27s

I would write to Robert Stevens, CEO and also to Dain Hancock, Exec VP of the aeronatics business.
Maybe also Vance Coffman, Chairman and Id include Norm Augustine (former CEO and Exec committe chair). You should be able to address correspondence to any of these gentleman to

Lockheed Martin Corporation
6801 Rockledge Drive
Bethesda, MD 20817

Maybe also contact the communications and media folks at Ft.Worth

Mary Jo Polidore, Joe Stout

Lockheed Martin Aeronautics
Lockheed Boulevard
Fort Worth, TX 76108

Bob
Guys, don't bother writing to Mr.Coffman as he is long gone, Dain Hancok retired and Bob Stevens doesn't know how to use Outlook, his secretary does.

I know Joe Stout and Jo Polidore personally, may I be of help?

David
Old 12-17-2004, 11:27 PM
  #31  
Doug Cronkhite
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Default RE: Top Flight p-38

Outside the box thinking here..

What if this EMI company is simply trying to turn a profit off the innocent modeler and Lockheed knows nothing about it?
Old 12-18-2004, 01:36 AM
  #32  
DamonTX
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Default RE: Top Flight p-38

David,

Absolutely. I send the letters about 2 months ago and have heard nothing. If you can bend one of their ears on this it would be appreciated.

Damon
Old 12-18-2004, 06:06 AM
  #33  
fw190
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Default RE: Top Flight p-38

This is truely strange! Good topic however....

Well I make a 'Lockhead' P38 (at least that is what I will be calling it when I get a call from them) [>:] , I have a friend who retired from Lockhead and I will contact him and find out more info. I don't want to spell it correctly because I might have to pay royalty

So does this mean that Ziroli, and all who sell Lockhead plans will have to pay royalty? That is so sad! Does this mean pictures I take at an airshow with Lockhead airplanes and if I decide to sell a picture I will have to pay royalty? what about the artists who painted images of their aircraft?.... then I am seeing a company that is going to self distruct and remove itself from the face of the earth, just to make a few more bucks.

Well I have never received a call or email from them, they must cruze the web searching for the name Lockhead and did not find my website? Maybe soon? does it matter to me? No, I am not here to profit I am just here for the hobby. Would I remove it if they ask me? Definitely! and I will probably never build a Lockhead aircraft ever.

Okay now P38 or is it P-38 I am trying to figure out which is safer to use? I think I am going to be sick [:'(]

OMG! OMG! I FORGET I LIVE IN BURBANK! THE PAST HOME OF LOCKHEAD! I need to go and dig up some bones!!!

Vic
Old 12-18-2004, 01:22 PM
  #34  
JAkridge
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Default RE: Top Flight p-38

Come on TF..... Let's have that Kit. I'm waiting
Old 12-19-2004, 01:55 AM
  #35  
Viper Driver
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Default RE: Top Flight p-38

Maybe Skyshark should make a P-38, their stuff looks really nice.
Old 12-20-2004, 10:00 AM
  #36  
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Default RE: Top Flight p-38

David,

If you can ask for what info they have on the licence/legal stuff.... just so we have the current and correct info, that would be helpful.

I had not heard back anything of extream use from my contacts.

Bob
Old 12-21-2004, 03:44 PM
  #37  
bob27s
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Default RE: Top Flight p-38

here folks........ factual and first hand information on the licencse subject

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=2454907
Old 12-21-2004, 04:55 PM
  #38  
dionysusbacchus
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Default RE: Top Flight p-38

Man this is bad news! Lot worse than I thought! These giant corporations could almost shut down the production of scale model kits entirely! The only scale planes you would see would be the ones the modeler designed and built himself. I see another new company selling copies of full scale kit planes and using the company names, I see that coming to an end too!

Dion
Old 12-21-2004, 05:48 PM
  #39  
William Robison
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Default RE: Top Flight p-38

One of the nicest light twins ever built is the Aerostar. Ford liked the name and slapped it on one of their vans.

As Piper Aircraft owned the Aerostar design at the time, I surely hope PA extracted a good price from FoMoCo for copyright infringement. And for degrading the name Aerostar by putting it on a Ford.

Bill.
Old 12-22-2004, 08:55 AM
  #40  
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Default RE: Top Flight p-38

ORIGINAL: William Robison

One of the nicest light twins ever built is the Aerostar. Ford liked the name and slapped it on one of their vans.

As Piper Aircraft owned the Aerostar design at the time, I surely hope PA extracted a good price from FoMoCo for copyright infringement. And for degrading the name Aerostar by putting it on a Ford.

Bill.
Well said Bill
Old 12-22-2004, 02:56 PM
  #41  
Daren Savage
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Default RE: Top Flight p-38

I am not a lawyer, but from my understanding the name would be a Trademark issue, while the shape of the airplane is a copyright issue under the hull clause. Someone mentioned Lockheed having the rights to the photos or paintings of their airplanes. They don't have any right to copyright infringement until you try to turn a profit on their work. This would probably be covered under the derivative work clause of copyright infringement.

This is why BVM can't sue you for copyright infringement if you make a mold of his F-16. He doesn't own the copyright to the shape of the F-16, Loughead does.

Daren
Old 12-22-2004, 06:47 PM
  #42  
rrudytoo
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Default RE: Top Flight p-38

I would love to see a Top Flite rendition of the Lockh**d P-3* Lightn***. A pair of .60-.90 engines, a good airfoil for a stable flight, off the shelf retracts and functional Fowler flaps. Call it the "Peter Three Eight, Fork-Tailed Devil" and I'll write the check!

Are there any more legal barracudas out there beside Lockheed? Shame on them!

Al
Old 07-17-2005, 12:28 AM
  #43  
1972stroker
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Default RE: Top Flight p-38

I would love to buy me a couple of TF P-38's..They make very good quality kits..that all fly great! I hope that someday they do come out with this TF P-38..I would be the first one to get it!!
Old 07-17-2005, 10:25 AM
  #44  
jrf
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Default RE: Top Flight p-38

Nevermind

Jim
Old 07-17-2005, 12:03 PM
  #45  
B757Captain
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Default RE: Top Flight p-38

Lockheed is indeed pressing on with copyright infringement and licensing fees over not only their current products (the new Tamiya 1/32 scale F-16 plastic model has a notice right on the box that says "F-16 Fighting Falcon is a trademark of Lockheed Martin Corporation used under license to Tamiya") but anything ever produced by Lockheed, a division of Lockheed, or a company merged or taken over by Lockheed. Try to use the phrase "Skunk Works" commercially and you'll get a C&D letter from Lockheed. Same with the P-38, Constellation, F-104, B-26, etc. Boeing is doing the same thing, as are all the remaining aerospace firms. Lockheed has just gotten more public notice than others.

The plastic model manufacturers have previously side-stepped the issue by ignoring letters from them, but Tamiya has opened a huge can of worms by acquiesing and paying the royalties. Navigate through Lockheed's website and you'll find a link that will tell you how to apply for a license and what is required. The link takes you to a law firm - any surprises there??

The issue is not the royalties paid per unit sold - that usually amounts to a few percentages of sale price. The killer is that a part of the licensing agreement is for the manufacturer (plastic, r/c, whatever) to hold adequate - set by Lockheed - product liability insurance, so that Lockheed doesn't get sued when little Johnny chokes on a piece of his brother's Tamiya F-16 kit, or they don't get sued when someone's P-38 goes out of control in the pits. As noble as that may sound, it's really all about the big guys getting greedy. They see it as a no-risk profit stream - the outside law firm does all the work.

There is hope on the horizon, however. The plastic modelling community has gotten a Congressman to introduce a bill preventing defense manufacturers from demanding royalties or licensing fees from equipment designed and produced for the government. This bill has so far made it through various commitees in Congress and should come up for a vote soon. There is a link to this issue at www.finescale.com.

Mark
Old 07-17-2005, 11:17 PM
  #46  
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Default RE: Top Flight p-38

Hmm, as noted in that other thread, if this is indeed a trademark issue and not a copywrite one, then to be honest, they don't really have a choice but to enforce it. Failure to protect your trademark voids the trademark. I'd guess that model airplanes and full-size airplanes are considered to overlap enough that the trademark would have to be enforced. (Note, I'm not a trademark attorney, nor have I ever played one on TV).
Old 02-05-2023, 12:58 AM
  #47  
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Default the p38 dilemma

for about 45 years now I've never been able to make up my mind with 100.% certainty which I love more the f4u corsair or the p38 lightning. wouldn't it be nice if we could somehow get mr Kelly Johnsons thoughts on all this legal crap? my one Ray of hope is having a son who works managing redbull infrastructure here in the states and since they own one of each..... I'm hoping for a nice poster at the least. I cut my first f4u in half on a power line when I was 14 and busy showing off getting ready to start the gold kit in a few days KEEP EM FLYING!!!

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