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*Eletronic Engine Syncronizer *

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*Eletronic Engine Syncronizer *

Old 05-07-2006, 09:11 PM
  #51  
roltech
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Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer - no joke

I also will take two.

roltech
Old 05-28-2006, 06:32 AM
  #52  
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Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer - no joke

yl5295,
Did any more info on this system? I have about 3 twins I am looking for a system just like this!!!

Ty
Old 05-28-2006, 07:51 AM
  #53  
yl5295
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Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer - no joke

What kind of info are you looking for? I have not written up the instructions yet. I have been at the beach the last two weeks on vacation so I have not gotten to work on it the last two weeks. I built a couple more prototype units and the PCB are back waiting for me at my house. The latest prototypes remove the LED RPM display and just have some simple flashing leds. Once I test these I am going to order the first production units. Probably 2-3 weeks at this point. I will be getting back to everyone on this thread after final testing. I have tested the independant run up mode, rudder steering mode, normal sync mode, sync enable/disable mode, and dead stick scenarios and everything is working great at this point. So the final thing I am finishing up now are the programming steps to set the programmable idle, kill position (PCM like loss of tx signal), full throttle end point and operation mode. Most people will not have to change the programming in it but the option of changing programming parameters need to be there.
Old 06-01-2006, 10:35 AM
  #54  
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Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer - no joke

Put me down for two as well. Looking forward to your test results.

Pat
Old 06-01-2006, 11:00 AM
  #55  
William Robison
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Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer - no joke

yl5295:

I'm ready to send money whenever you want. Send me your phone number by PM or email, we an talk about it.

Bill.
Old 06-01-2006, 06:45 PM
  #56  
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Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer - no joke

Wonder how this would work on a four engine bomber. During the testing of the Cedar prototype B-17, on the vertical test (THANK GOD) one of the outer engines flammed out. The yaw from such outboard engines was tremendous. So far, I have not seen an in air flame out...Verical test three times per flight..others tell me engine out on B-17 not big deal..but wonder this application.Mmmm
Twinman
Old 06-03-2006, 03:32 PM
  #57  
yl5295
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Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer - no joke

A couple of updates:

I am sending one of the (3) prototypes I have to William Robinson this week for more feedback.

As for a B17. I can study the circuit to see if I can pack four engine/servo controllers into one but when I looked at it in the past it would not fit. I have simplified the logic alot since then however. I could add a high speed serial interface to connect two together to sync four engines but that would be a next winter project for me. Not enough B17s out there to justify doing it short term. (but if someone wants to give me a B17, I will do it right away!!! :0)
Old 06-03-2006, 07:32 PM
  #58  
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Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer - no joke

As for bringing you a B-17..uh..the Cedar Prototype is in Texas and I am out of the country right now..Let me have a rain check on that one. With Cedar arf, maybe more coming. I saw a video of a B-29 in England that lost three engines and landed in a tree...uh...did I mention that the engines were 100cc gas and the plane was over 400#. Now that is twin sanity as Bill would say.
Twinman
Old 06-03-2006, 07:39 PM
  #59  
William Robison
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Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer - no joke

Twinman:

Please eliminate that spce between the ":N" and the "S" if you would. Having a space before "Sanity" makes it look like there's something reasonable about playing with twins and multis. And we all know better.

Haw.

Bill.
Old 06-03-2006, 07:50 PM
  #60  
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Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer - no joke

WELL EXCUSE ME!! Tee Hee Some guys pin an idea and get defensive..Ha Ha
The possibilities to drive yl5295 crazy boggle the mind..Ford Trimotor..Huges Spruce Goose..Tri Stick...Five engine kadett!!. What about Dornier 335? It just get's better........and if it works, as Bill will now certify to the world ( No pressure Bill) mulit's could become far more common.
Twinman
Old 06-04-2006, 04:51 PM
  #61  
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Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer - no joke

Stumbled on to this thread, and just finished my first twin, a G&P PBY, I am planning to do a land based twin next. I need some insurance.

I want two of these also. I think the market is ripe. A lot of people talking or planning twin projects that have never done it before (like me).
Old 06-04-2006, 04:57 PM
  #62  
William Robison
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Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer - no joke

Parker:

The most important thing, the most basic thing about flying multi engines is absolute reliability of the engines. No matter how great any engine control device may be, it will do you no good at all if your engines don't run. Worry about that first.

One of these devices wont hurt you though, and by chopping the running throtle could save you.

Bill.
Old 06-04-2006, 06:42 PM
  #63  
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Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer - no joke

William,
Can I add one more small item...here comes the soap box.... Learn to use and Always ALWAYS fly with the rudder. Engine out, even with the great idea of this syncronizer, will still result in a crash if you cannot input rudder control while trying to get back to the field. This will save the unexpected snap roll for engine out, but you still must fly back to the field. Yes, twins WILL fly on one engine, but it is up to the pilot to do so and the rudder use is the most important point at that moment and you cannot learn instantly in a panic.
OK OK,,I am off the soap box!!! Been There done that........DON'T.
Twinman
Old 06-04-2006, 09:54 PM
  #64  
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Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer - no joke

There was some wise advice that a long time twin flyer (even longer timer than Twinman) gave me and also on more than one occasion flew some very large and borderline powerd flights with great success:

1 you tune the first motor to peak on the ground and then back the needle one or two clicks (200-300RPM) and then you shut the motor off.

2 You start the next motor and do the same tuning.

3 You start the first motor again.

4 It is okay to do the nose in the air test if the plane is not too big or heavy to accomplish, BUT YOU DO NOT CHANGE THE NEEDLES TO MAKE THE ENGINES SOUND MORE IN SYNC AS YOU HAVE ALREADY GOTTEN THEM TO RUN AT THIER BEST AND ALLOWED FOR THE UNLOADOMNG IN THE AIR. SYNCING THE MOTORS WILL PUT ONE OF THEM IN A RICH OR LEAN SIDE OF BEST TUNE
Old 06-04-2006, 11:05 PM
  #65  
William Robison
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Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer - no joke

Terror Dactyl:

As always, good advice from you.

Twinman:

George, yours also is always good. And without using the rudder the remaining engine will just get him to the crash that much faster. How about posting a link to your “Twins Primer†on Paul Grubich’s web site for him? Much good there.

Bill.
Old 06-04-2006, 11:14 PM
  #66  
William Robison
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Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer - no joke

Parker:

I’ll also add that the Catalina is about the easiest combat twin to fly with an engine out. The close engine spacing and the long wing span combine to minimize the adverse yaw when one goes dead. It would be hard to pick a better first twin from the selection of military aircraft.

However, do bear in mind that “…easiest combat twin to fly with an engine out…†is still a relative statement.

If you have G2 or G3 get as much (simulated) stick time as you can with the B-25 and P-38 and programmed unexpected engine failures. That will be cheap insurance too.

Yes, there are other simulators, but “Real Flight†is the one I’m familiar with.

Bill.
Old 06-05-2006, 06:39 AM
  #67  
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Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer - no joke

Bill,
Am humbled in your presence.
I would love to do the link, but I am overseas right now and cannot access RCWARBIRDS.com...What is that all about?? rcu, no problem. Others can go to Rcwarbirds.com. I think is in the technique section.
Twinman

Terror..Yes, as always you are correct in the tuning...but if you have computer radio and smart ass kid to program it..you can "Blend" the engines together using exponential or helicopter settings to match the engines..Yes, I know the KISS program...but, hey, this is the twins forum..Twinsanity rules!!
Old 06-05-2006, 09:16 AM
  #68  
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Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer - no joke

I know, I know that rudder input is the only way to save an engine out condition in a twin. And I also realize I am weak in that area. I learned to fly on ailerons and am a firm believer that ailerons are the last control that should be learned. But that is for another forum. My single engine experience has not given me a lot of deadstick situations for I am a firm believer in meticulously tuning engines and then leaving them alone. I have watched guys tune and re-tune on every flight and they have far more deadstick experience than I do.

With those things in mind I feel, that as described here, the engine synchronizer would give me one or two seconds to think, another area that I am not very swift at.

And thanks everybody for all the tips and advice, it's what RCU is best at (other than starting arguments).
Old 06-08-2006, 09:10 AM
  #69  
yl5295
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Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer - no joke

OK GUYS... Here is an update...

I have costed everything out in prodution quanities and the device will retail for $89.00 I plan on start taking orders in two weeks. The first 25 units I will sell at half price of $45 + $5 USPS Priority shipping. I am doing this just to help offset the inital cost of the PCB order. They will ship in about 4 weeks (assuming no bugs are found in field testing).

So email me if you want to get on the list for some of the first 25 units. I will attached a simple diagram/picture of the device to this post but I can't seem to figure out how to attach files or pictures?
Old 06-08-2006, 05:59 PM
  #70  
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Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer - no joke

If you want to email me the pics, I'll post them to this thread for you.

Pat
Old 06-09-2006, 01:34 AM
  #71  
William Robison
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Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer - no joke

Pat and All:

Not a picture, just a layout and connections diagram. I’ll post a picture when it gets here. But I do have a preliminary copy of the user’s manual.

Operating description (manual condensed, less instructions):

LEDs 1 and 2 are used for programming indicators, LEDs 3 and 4 show the rpm signal from the engines, are used to verify proper operation.

The switch is in position zero for normal operation, the other seven positions allow programming the sync unit and working as a matchbox for the throttle servos.

User programmable are servo center and end points, servo reversing, and the servo position for normal idle. This last, normal idle, is where the unit sets the throttles when one engine quits. After the reset to idle returning the tx throttle stick to idle gives pilot control of the remaining engine’s throttle.

The switch also allows you to use the auxiliary input, or ignore it.

Options available as delivered:
1) No auxiliary input used.
2) Individual throttle control, allowing either engine to be run from idle to full throttle while the other remains at idle.
3) Turn the sync unit on and off in flight.
4) Rudder to throttle mix.

The rudder to throttle mix is only active with the throttles up to approximately 1/3, it is proportional, allowing ground steering with the throttles. Full rudder gives about ½ throttle to the engine on the outside of the turn. This mode also is active in flight for advanced aerobatics. There is a dead band around the center of rudder travel, minimal rudder deflection will not affect the engine rpm.

With the sync unit set for rudder mix it is also possible to use a separate proportional channel input, then if desired the pilot has cross control of the rudder and throttles.

Remember please, this is an experimental prototype unit. Production models may vary.

It is planned for the production models also to incorporate a glow driver control circuit that is not implemented on the prototype.

Bill.

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Old 06-09-2006, 10:01 AM
  #72  
yl5295
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Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer - no joke

Guys,

Thanks for all of the response. This list of people for the first 25 units now has 18-20 spoken for. After the first 25 are gone the price will be the $89 retail price (again this offer was just to help offset the cost of initial production costs).

So here is an update...

Production order will be June 23. Shipping will start the week of July 10th. Anyone who buys one can return it for a $45 refund (I can't refund the $5 shipping) if dissatisfied. Hopefully, Beta testers will post any problems found and any delays in this schedule will be posted here.

Any payments not received from people on the list by June 23rd will give up their spot on the list. If you have not communicated with me via email and gotten an email back from me then you are not on the list. So if you posted on this thread that you want one and have not emailed me. Then you are not on the list. My email is [email protected].
Old 06-09-2006, 11:57 PM
  #73  
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Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer - no joke

I'll take one! Email sent.

Cheers
Bill
Old 06-10-2006, 12:48 AM
  #74  
William Robison
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Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer - no joke

Additional on the LEDs.

When the sync unit is in the operation mode, with the selector switch at zero, LED one is on to indicate throttle stick position above 20% and the sync unit enabled, when off the tx throttle is less than 20%, sync unit switched out.

LED two flashes at high speed to indicate sync lock, off when out of sync.

LEDs three and four indicate rpm pulse from the two engines, as noted earlier.

Bill.
Old 06-10-2006, 07:20 AM
  #75  
yl5295
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Default RE: Eletronic engine syncronizer - no joke

Guys,

The production unit will have 6 LEDs. The two additional LEDs indicate when the onboard glow plug driver is turned on. A 5th mode is added so that you can use auxillary channel to control remote glow on/off. The other modes are still there. So my plan to turn on/off remote glow if AUX channel is not used for remote glow is the following:

If Engine not running full throttle for 3 seconds then idle turns on remote glow for 30 seconds. What do you guys think...

BTW the remote glow circuit could also be used for ignitition battery on GAS but I need to test this further before committing to this.

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