wayneparrish

My Feedback: (16)

Jerry, I have just test flown my setup as you are wanting to do. I have two G-38's on my Zirolli C-47 and of course the shaft extends out the rear as yours. I turned two aluminum discs on the lathe and they are in turn screwed onto the rear shaft of the engine. The sensor was mounted on a plywood "mount" that was in turn fastened to the firewall. Works like a champ and keeps the sensor away from the magneto up front. I have had no problems and range checks are as good as usual. Wayne Parrish

2engsout

My Feedback: (2)

Hi Guys, I was the beta tester for the Zenoah engines that began last August and lasted untill late October. I logged over 250 engine test runs with the twin sync working with Bill, getting all the bugs worked out of the chip. I found out early in the testing that the 1st thing you need to do with a gasser is call C&H ignition at 307-857-6897, and order 2 Bosch resistor caps and they may throw in a couple feet of shielding for the high tension lead. The shielding needs to be grounded at both ends. One end at the cap, and the other to the engine ground. Doing this will kill 99% of the RF noise. With the G-38, G-45, and G-62, you need to mount a disc to the crankshaft extension in the back of the engine in order to keep the hall sensor wire as far as possible from the magneto. See the picture below. I simply removed the nut from the spring starter and modified a coupler nut to take its place. The coupler nut is just a 3/4" long threaded 6mm nut that I put in a lathe and drilled it out to .275, and then tapped it with a 8mm x 1mm tap while still in the lathe. Don't try to free hand this procedure or the disc will wobble. All 3 cranks are 8mm x 1mm thread. The coupler nut now holds the spring starter on and the disc by just using a short 8mm bolt to hold the disc to the nut. This method is the ONLY way I found to get the RF out of the system. I have a supplemental Zenoah engine instruction manual that I composed from my testing, and I will email it to anyone that request it. It goes into more detail about the twin sync Zenoah installations, tuning the Walbro carb, and a proper range check procedure. Contact me at [email protected] I will be flying my Byron Barron as soon as the weather breaks here in Nebraska and will post a field report. I would like to add that Bill Wike is a fantastic product support kind of guy and I am proud to have been a contributor to the success of this project!! Thanks to all for YOUR support!! Rick Simmons 2engsout

deltatech

Hi Bill I'm Jason - the guy you spoke to last tuesday. I finally got a chance to set up my DC-3 and try out the Twin Sync. After getting the engines set up independantly I ran them together and the Twin Sync worked - sort of.
Here is what it's doing. At idle led3/4 are off. A few clicks above idle and led3/4 come on and I can hear the engines in sync, I can see the throttles making adjustments to stay in sync. Sounds good until both engines drop down to somewhere above idle. This happens at any throttle setting above idle. I thought it could be the Twin Sync loosing signal or a sensor but when I move the throttle the engines match the throttle and stay there until I move the stick again somtimes the engines match the throttle stick somtimes they drop to above idle. I find this odd because I don't have to drop down below sync to regain control. I had several succesful engine out tests "pinched one fuel line" and the other engine drops to idle and I can't regain control of the remaining engine until I go to idle.
Any help would be great. Thanks again. Jason

yl5295

My Feedback: (1)

Jason,

If I understand everything you are saying correctly it sounds like in summary the following is happening:

Everything works like normal but sometimes engines go to idle. Engines go to idle if you get a receiver fail safe/loss of transmitter signal. You do not have to go to idle to regain control with receiver fail safe. If it were losing a sensor you would have to go to idle to regain control. You would see similar symptoms with a faulty sensor/sensor install issue but having to move the stick back to idle would be required.

If I recall you have glow motors. So it is odd you are seeing this. What is the make and model # of your transmitter and receiver (Hitec RCD-3500 receiver by chance)?


Sounds like we should talk again.

deltatech

I have a Hitech Eclipse7 radio and yes the RCD3500 reciever?

yl5295

My Feedback: (1)

I posted a thread a while back about the RCD-3500 receiver. This receiver has an issue where if the antenna of the transmitter is too close to the receiver antenna (especially when the transmitter antenna is fully extended) it will not output a throttle servo signal (this causes the TwinSync to go into fail safe and pull the engines back to idle. You can see it with certain servos too but if servos don't get a signal for a few frames they don't move. The Twinsyncs thinks you lost your transmitter signal and pulls the engines back to idle.

I have a replacement cable to use from throttle to TwinSync that fixes this. All Twinsyncs shipping now have this fix on the twinsync itself. email me your mailing address and I will send you a cable at no cost.

You can retest it in the mean time by fully colapsing your tx antenna and stepping away a few feet to test it.

yl5295

My Feedback: (1)

I mailed you a new cable - no cost. Should take care of it. Let me know when you get it and test it.

Bill

mrdakota

My Feedback: (29)

Bill,
Missed you in Toledo..you were out of the booth. I found all my questions here, in this forum.
Still one question left- are these still in stock @ RCS and can I get the special magnet through them also?
Sorry that was two questions.....
Like to try this out in a new TF Cessna 310
Keith
FarNorthern IL

yl5295

My Feedback: (1)

I was at the RCS booth about 75% of the time Friday and Sat. Sorry I missed you.

They sold out of their inventory at the show. I will be shipping them another batch in the next 10-14 days. So go ahead and get your order in. You will have to get the special magnets that don't require spinners from me at this point. I will ask them to start carrying them since they are getting really popular. They are $2.50 per pair and $1.00 postage. I take paypal if that is easier.

Bill

mrdakota

My Feedback: (29)

Sent you payment, via. paypal.
Thanks

jamesc43

My Feedback: (2)

I would like to know how much demand there is for a rev limiter in your product and is it popssible to build one in?

James
1234

mrdakota

My Feedback: (29)

Revolution limiter, hummm. Great idea!

yl5295

My Feedback: (1)

It is simple to do and could easily be added. I actually have a Helicopter Rotor speed govenor or rpm limiter ready for field testing and some beta testers lined up. I just haven't had enough time to try it out myself before sending units out to the beta testers. It is a single unit engine unit and much lower cost than the twinsync. I didn't think there was a market in airplanes for one.

jamesc43

My Feedback: (2)

I have a couple YS-91 engines I am putting on a KMP A500 (inline twin). The company recommends 14X6 props and I am going to run a three bladed 14X7 prop. The test engine still ran in excess of 9200 RPM and I was wondering if your product could say limit the engines RPMs to say 9200 to ensure that they dop not destroy themselves during high rev manuvers. This was I wouldn't have to limit radio programming or tune the engines to keep them under that limit.

James
1234

deltatech

Hi Bill. How do you suggest doing a range check? I got a chance to go out to the field today and try running the engines with the transmitter away from my DC-3 "I wanted to try it without the new cable". I still had the engines going to idle even at a distance. I don't know why but I had allot of interferance in my radio today. At 45 paces and antena down I had all control surfaces chattering/moving about 1/4". This went away with the antenna up. At 200 paces the chattering was pretty bad antena down. Put the antenna up and it goes away. I still haven't gotten the cable but that's ok - mail here can be slow. Allot of my taxi problems are better with the engines in sync. The model loves to weather vane into a cross wind but a few times the wind was down the centerline and I had smooth high speed taxi.
Well thanks for any insight into proper range check procedures.

yl5295

My Feedback: (1)

One of my beta testers (2engsout on RCU) is writing up a good instruction sheet on range testing. I will post it in a day or so when he gets done. His procedure is to basicaly baseline your airplane with out twinsync in it and mark the distance with and without engines running. Then repeat the process with the twinsync in and the engines running with the antenna down. The important thing is how much did the range go down due to the twinsync and the RPM sensors being installed. You should not see more than a 10% decrease in range with the engines running. Typically control surface range is not afftected at all it is only throttle fail safe range that is afftected. Have you done a range test with and without the twinsync installed with engines running. I would not expect the TwinSync to have any impact on control surface range (with glow engines). Gasoline engines are a different story to to spark plug noise if not using a metal shielded spark plug cap.

yl5295

My Feedback: (1)

I am open to doing a RPM limiter. I think the market is pretty limited for this need. Therefore I am not really open to doing it for free since it is probably 2-3 hours of work. If you really need it make me an offer to do it for you as a custom chip. I do custom chips for people at no cost when I think there is reasonable demand for the feature. For example here are the custom features available now:

Cessna 337 chip (doesn't idle engine if one dies and full power is not synced)
Dual RPM readout
PCM disable
and a few trick modes...

rchotdogpilot

My Feedback: (27)

Hey Bill,

This Neil (Met you with my buddy Mark, in the Ferrari Jacket) we had discussed the stall speed gizmo. You still willing to get a few beta's out there to test them? We'll be flying the 2 P-38 with in the next 2 weeks and I'm afraid that owner #2 will have stall issues on landing. If you would like to discuss it further off line PM me and I will send you my phone number. As for the idea, or need of r such a gizmo, I will start another post discussing the need.

Thanks
Neil

rchotdogpilot

My Feedback: (27)

Here is the link to the post that I had mentioned above[link]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_5768181/anchors_5768181/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#5768181[/link]

yl5295

My Feedback: (1)

I am willing but it is going to be a few months before I can start on it. Maybe check back with me in the June-July time frame. Too many new products I am trying to get out the door now:

- engine monitor unit
- two smoke pumps
- ignition kill switch
- Heli governor/limiter
- two or three versions of a power expander and battery isolators
- battery fail over device
- on board glow driver
- Turbine ecu

rchotdogpilot

My Feedback: (27)

Yes, I do remember from Toledo that it seemed as if you had your plate full. From that list, it looks more like your table is full.

yl5295

My Feedback: (1)

The good news is everything is basically done (still need to write manuals) except for the Power expanders, battery fail over, and turbine ECU. Prototypes are available for the rest and they are in field test now.

Bill D

My Feedback: (2)

Hi Jim
I am in the process of Installing a TwinSync in my Cessna 310 along with twin Saitos 82s. I have been following the threads on installing the magnets as you did .I noticed you are from Lindenhurst N.Y. ,I grew up there on shore Rd many years ago. Back to my questions:
1. I see you removed the prop hub's where did you get the puller to do this.
2. By now your system should be operational
3. If it is how well does it run.
4. How did you mount the sensors, some pictures from you would be great. If not , possibly then I can call you. I live in Florida now but miss N.Y. If you care to E mail me your phone number at [email protected] Hope to hear from you
Best wishes..............Bill[sm=regular_smile.gif]

yl5295

My Feedback: (1)

guys,

One of my original beta testers wrote up a "how to" on range testing as well as covering a number of nuainces with the walbro carb. Thought that I would share it with everyone. A lot of good info (a nice plane too - pics attached):


TWIN SYNC


INSTALLATION REQUIRMENTS FOR ZENOAH ENGINES


by RICK SIMMONS 2engsout


First of all, it is imposible to fully shield the RF field of a magneto equipped engine, BUT, the procedures below provided me with a full throttle-both engines, antenna colapsed range check of 275' with my G-45's, and 215' with my G-26's with the twin sync installed. I use a JR 8103 TX with the PCM 649 RX and the Revolution 6" loaded RX anntena pt # Revo 1010 from Horizon Hobby mounted below the fuse.

1. On all of my Zenoah engines, I use a Bosch spark plug resistor cap and the high tension lead " sheilding " that C&H Ignition sells. The caps are $15.95 each. C&H ign. phone # is 307-857-6897. You will also need resistor spark plugs if you don't already have them. Tell them what engines you are equipping. The G-26's also require a C&H resistor cap adapter for the smaller 10mm plug. They sell for $2.00. The shielding needs to be grounded at BOTH ends. Simply scratch some of the nickle plating off the Bosch cap where you want to solder the shielding to it. ( I used a small Dremel grindstone to remove the plating). On the other end, twist some excess shielding into a roll and solder an eyelet on the end, and then ground it to the engine case. It takes some heat to warm the cap up to get the solder to stick, so be prepared. My throttle servos jittered when the engines were running BEFORE I shielded the plugs and high tension lead. That jitter is RF interference getting into the hall sensor leads sending spurious signals to the twin sync unit, which then return spurious signals back to the throttle servos.


2. On the G-26's, you will mount 2 magnets in the spinner backplate. You CANNOT mount the hall sensors using any type of metal or conductive material ( also no carbon fiber). I used 1/8" thick plastic "L" shaped brackets to mount my G-26 hall sensors. The short end of the "L" was drilled 4mm and bolted to the front of the engine using one of the engine case bosses. There are 4 bosses to chose from. You may also use plywood mounts. The hall sensors can be mounted behind the engine on the G-38's, G-45's and G-62's utilizing the rear crankshaft exstention. This was done on my Ziroli DC-3 (G-45's) because I have a scale 3 bladed prop with a dummy engine and wanted to retain a scale propeller appearance without having to mount a spinner backplate behind the prop. A plastic disc, or any spinner backplate can be used. It is mounted to the crankshaft by using a 8mm x 1mm nut. On my G-45's, pictured below, I use spring starters, so I took a 10mm socket and removed the 8mm x 1mm threaded nut holding the spring starter sprage in place and used a 1/4" coupling nut, which is simply a nut that is 3/4" long with a 1/4" thread inside of it. I took it to my machinist and he put it in his lathe, drilled the inside dia. at .275" 3/4 of the lenth of the nut. Then he ran a 8mm x1mm bottom tap into that .275 hole, while it was still in the lathe. DO NOT try to "free hand" drill and tap this without using a lathe because it has to be perfectly aligned on axis !! If its not perfect, your disc will wobble !! This nut replaces the nut you previously removed from the back of the spring starter. Use red locktight to install it and just snug it up. DO NOT OVERTIGHTEN. I used a 3.5" dia. nylon spinner backplates to hold the magnets. I carefully scribed a line across the backplate directly thru the center hole. I measured in 3/8" from the edges and drilled my 3/16" holes to hold the magnets. Be sure to center punch the hole location on the scribe line , and then drill a 1/16th pilot hole, then a 1/8th hole, then 3/16". Before you epoxy the magnets in place, plug a hall sensor into the twin sync unit, power it up, and run the magnet across the face of the hall sensor. You only want one magnet to activate the hall sensor. If the green LED dose not light, then flip the magnet around and try the other side. Mark the side that lights up the LED and that will be the side that faces the magnet. Do this now to all 4 magnets and then go ahead and epoxy them in place. I then use the lathe to drill the hole in the backplate 8mm. Use 2 flat washers and a lock washer to hold the bakplate to the coupler nut. Use a flat washer on BOTH sides of the backplate. Use blue locktight on this bolt and DO NOT overtighten. Just snug. It will begin to slightly crush the 6mm plastic crankshaft insert, which is OK. When completed, check for runout. Now mount your hall sensor with a 1/16" air gap, using a wood mounting bracket if you can and check that the green LED lights up on the twin sync unit. Run your hall sensor leads thru your wing and to the twin sync unit keeping the leads as short as possible and not in the same wiring loom as the aleron, flap and throttle servo leads, if possible. IF you do not have spring starters on your engines, simply drill a 8mm hole in the backplate and using 2 flat washers, sandwich the plate and retain it with a lockwasher and 8mm X 1mm nut using blue loctite. The G-45,and G-62 crankshaft threads are 8mm x 1mm where the spring starter attaches. It is possible to install the disc behind the G-38, BUT the crank exstention threads are LEFT-HAND, 8mm x 1mm. This takes a left hand tap of corse, and the nut cannot touch the back of the spring starter sprage, due to the different way the starter is installed. If you would like a detailed G-38 disc installation supplement, email me and I will send it to you. This completes the magnet and hall sensor installation.






RANGE CHECK PROCEDURE


I use a systematic range check procedure that you may find helpful.
The aircraft must be securly anchored and pointed in a safe direction to preform these range checks.


1.This procedure pertains to PCM use, but can still be adapted for FM use also. For FM operation, the chip has a fail-safe capability programed into the twin sync unit that will pull your throttles back to idle if there is a loss of TX signal. When you are ready for a range check, use a standard "Y" connector to the engine throttle servos plugged into the throttle ch on the RX for a baseline distance check without the twin sync plugged into the system. I had to run the hall sensor leads and the throttle servo leads between the wing and the fuse when assembled so that I could get to the unit and the leads for easy access while range testing. Be sure to use a foam cushion in the wing saddle area where the wires exit to protect the finish. Mark this baseline range distance by placing a marker on the ground at the point where your throttles STAY at your PCM failsafe preset posistion ( hi idle ). The 1st check will be with engines OFF, with the TX stick at FULL throttle. Have a helper watch the throttle arms on your carbs and have him raise his hand whenever the throttles go to idle ( preset failsafe posistion). You will notice as you walk the TX farther away from the plane, the signal will drift in and out somewhat. I eventually found the distance that I could move the TX 4' farther back and the RX would go into fail-safe and not drift back. Mine JR TX was that sensitive. Take your time. I would then drop my baseline marker at that point.


2. Now that you have marked that baseline, step off and count your paces back to the plane and write it down for future reference. Then start each engine and tweak the needles accordingly to get your best response. Both engines will be running at full throttle on the ground for several minutes, so go a little richer on the top end adjustment for added cooling if neccesary.
Repeat test #1 and mark your distance to fail-safe (hi idle).


3. Now we know EXACTLY what the RF, if anything is doing to the reception between the TX and the RX, WITHOUT, the twin sync installed in the system. This is your baseline range. Now remove the "Y" connector, and plug in the leads to the correct "J" pegs on the twin sync unit. REMEMBER , the negitive wire goes towards the edge of the board !! Now, with both engines OFF, start walkin, antenna colapsed, and the TX stick at full throttle. Keep working the fail-safe point till you can find the 4' area that you "have it" and "I dont have it". Mark that spot and compare the ranges. Now start both engines and at full throttle, repeat the test. I can't tell you what range is going to be 100% safe for you, but I got 215' with my G-26's and 275' with my G-45's and had no PCM fail-safe occurances in flight. Use your best judgement.



TUNING THE WALBRO CARBURETOR


In order to give the twin sync the best possible chance to respond to 2% changes in the servo output, you will need to observe the throttle output % on your throttle curve. You MUST have atleast a 25 RPM increase with each 2% increase in throttle output. If you do not, you may have a flat spot (LEAN SPOT) in you mixure adjustment at that point. This MUST be corrected !! Note the % output of the flat spot for future reference when you go to the tuning proceedure. Usually the flat spot occurs right above idle, or at approx 1/2 throttle. Richening the low speed needle is the 1st cure, BUT you will need a reliable and smooth transision to the upper rpm ranges also. If you find that your Walbro carb has a nice idle, but seems to smooth out and go flat (LEAN) at 1/2 to 5/8th throttle, with little increase in rpm by moving the stick in the midrange, you probably have a pop-off pressure set too high. Since your high speed needle is set just right, and your idle is set just right, you have no needle to tweek for the midrange mixure adjustment !! BUT, you have a pop-off pressure adjustment that can lean or richen the midrange. This is done by adjusting the stiffness of the spring thats under the metering lever, above the needle and seat assembly. To richen the midrange by changing the popoff pressure, you 1st need a baseline reading of your pop-off pressure. EC Distributing (www.eccarburetors.com ) sells a 0-30 lbs. gauge that will tell you exactly what your current pop-off pressure is. It sells for about $33.00. Simply connect the hose from the gauge to the fuel inlet nipple and start pumping up the pressure. Its more accurate if you can dribble a little gas in the nipple to make sure the carb is "wet". I have found that many Walbro carbs have factory popoffs that exceed 30 lbs. Once your have your baseline pop-off, you can start trimming the spring lenth by clipping off 1 coil at a time using a toenail clipper. This softer spring will now allow the hi speed circuit to "come into play" a little sooner then it did before, and richen your midrange response. Recheck your pop-off pressure before starting your engine and note the change. You may now be able to slightly lean the low speed needle to smooth out the idle a little. All Zenoah engines have a fixed ignition timing at 28 degrees before top dead center, and that makes for a lumpy idle. Keep checking your response just above idle and at the throttle output % that had preveiously been flat. You may have to repeat this spring trimming proceedure several times to get it perfect. You can also get extra springs of different stiffness and spring shims to fine tune the popoff pressures from EC Distributing. I have found that the engines best response has been with a popoff pressure between 20-28 lbs, depending on engine displacment. Each .010 shim raises the popoff pressure about 1/2 lb.
When you have a popoff between 20 - 28 lbs. start your engine and see the difference. You may have to now lean the low speed needle slightly to smooth out your idle. Check throttle response and adjust accordingly. I set my high speed needle for peak RPM, then go 1/16 turn richer to compensate for the prop unloading in the air and the engine turning 500 RPMS higher. This is critical because the carb will not let any more fuel thru just because the engine is now turning faster in the air. The 1/16th turn richer than peak RPMS now covers this increased fuel demand.



Take the time to get it perfect !! Your plane deserves it !!


Rick Simmons 2engsout [email protected]



G-45 sensor mount5.jpg

branded

My Feedback: (9)

Well, I ordered and received both the TWIN-SYNC and the optional Display.....

I’ve been evaluating the Twin-Sync on my DA50’s and it appears to function as advertised. I’m an engineer myself and will write up a review of this product when I’ve completed my setup.

I have to say at this time that the quality of this product’s lacking severely. I found some really bad soldering on the backside of the Twin-Sync module, particularly jumpers that were added, but also component leads that were cut off after soldering (can cause fractures in the solder). I will fix these myself.

Anyway, it’s not my mission to bash this product but rather to bring these issues up as the manufacture is clearly amateurish. I like this product and believe in it and want it to succeed. Having said that, it won’t if it becomes the cause of loss of aircraft rather than a device that improves the aircraft’s survivability.

Now, the Display Module I purchased to (I thought) to aid me in the setup is completely non-functional. It’s displays “jibberrage”……It’s no mystery to me as to why…..

I’ll let the photos of the delivered product speak for themselves but this is not a warranty issue but rather a quality issue.
I would never install a device in one of my airplanes looking like this……

Hopefully, I won’t need to send this thing in for warranty it’s clearly junk and I don’t wish to spend more money on it.

I don’t think it’s common practice to gouge one’s soldering iron tip into the plastic housing of the LED display IC’s in order to solder an inaccessible connector……tisk, tisk, tisk (wagging finger)...

Oh, and lastly there are virtually no instructions on what/how to use it; not even a simple sentence telling you which way is UP...If it worked it probably would be intuitive but of course mine didn't.....QUALITY, QUALITY, QUALITY.......