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KMP F-7F Tigercat

Old 07-16-2008, 09:42 PM
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

About the transport issue: I have a Robart Super Stand fuse holder and a PVC tubing rack that holds the wing so both engines are straight down and then I flip it over when I get to the field to put the wing onto the fuse.
Kinda like a big 'H' on each end and the nacelles fit outboard of the stand itself. The leading edge rests on some pipe insulation. SIMPLE!!!

As far as flaps.... so far we've used the 10 degree setting with great results. My TC with the YS 1.20s seems to just float around with flaps down at 10. Haven't gotten the nerve to use full flaps in case I lose an engine. It just doesn't need more than probably 15 for 99 percent of fields anyway - but I'm sure it looks cool with full flaps out n gear down!

Aileron Gyro? Don't do it man!!! You raise the wing on full scale birds with the RUDDER only. Ailerons are a certain path to destruction.

Lastly.... You guys using the gas engines..... it seems like you are losing a LOT of engines in flight. Gassers are usually SO reliable. Does anyone have any real idea why they are flaming out? I'm curious because I'm putting a PAIR OF FUJI 24'S IN MY NEW KMP B-25 and I've never had a gasser flame out in my 3D birds ,so it's very concerning to me.
Regards,
Wally
Old 07-17-2008, 02:37 AM
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

Hi guys I have been giving some thought to the excessively high flying weights of the TigerCats and consequently high wing loadings and have come to the conclusion in this case that conventional "Gas" engines such as Zenoahs and Fuji's are not the way to go.

My thoughts are based on this, firstly - the petrol motors being used here are basically on the leading edge of the wing or close to it so in effect you are carrying a lot of dead weight, yes there is a liitle advantage but not much. Secondly motors such as the MVVS petrol motors that basically use a methonal block with a Walbro carby are heaps lighter more compact and swing a similar if not the same sized prop eg MVVS 26 IFS SP throws a Mejzlik 18/10 8100-8300 3266
Mejzlik 18/10 7200-7400 3270
and is producing 2,8 kW @ 9 000 rpm (3.8 hp)
I have spoken to a couple of guys who are running O.S. 120 AX's and there models are nowhere near 28lbs.....mostly in the 22-24lb range depending on the level of detail they add.

the information above was found here http://mvvs.nl/

cheers Rossco

cheers Rossco.

just my two cents
Old 07-17-2008, 08:47 PM
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

BLACK WIDOW, HAULING MY T-CAT IN TWO CUSTOM MADE "COFFINS" IN A 6'X12' TRAILER, AND USING A CUSTOM MADE PVC STAND FOR SETUP AT THE FIELD. WILL POST PICS SOON.......
Old 07-18-2008, 12:11 AM
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat


ORIGINAL: Blackwidow

Hmmmmm I'm not sure I understand the opposite aileron potential for the gyro during an engine out condition. Assuming both gyro's are in normal mode and no aileron inputs were given from the tranmistter why wouldn't the aileron gyro give control inputs to try to hold the wings level which is what you want regardless of the movement of the rudder? In full scale twins (aside from the mixture & prop controls) you identify the dead engine. push opposite rudder and raise the wing of the dead engine. Maybe I am missing something and if so I would really like to understand it better but I don't understand how the aileron gyro would drive the wings in the opposite direction. Thoughts?

Tom Rainwater
[email protected]
Yes, the aileron gyro WOULD attempt to level the wings. Unfortunately that's the problem!

If an aircraft is yawing/rolling to (say) the left, and you apply right aileron to correct, you are risking stalling the low/slow (remember engine out, and rotating around this tip) tip by adding a downward deflection of it's aileron. This just increases the angle-of-attack of the low tip, and can induce a tip stall and possibly the dreaded flick/death spiral.

It's far safer to ONLY use rudder to counter the yaw, and the wings should level themselves - you could dab the ailerons if needed but the gyro will just try to correct all the bank with opposite aileron.

Here's a link to the result of a tip stall on a nice twin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_T6HnDkigeo

Hope this explains it.

Cam
Old 07-18-2008, 11:34 AM
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

BLACKWIDOW, HERE'S THE PICS OF THE "COFFINS'..... THEY WORK EXTREMELY WELL. CUSTOM SIZED, BLOWN WITH PACKING FOAM. NOTE THE PVC FIELD STANDS. THE FUSE BOX IS 12"X83", AND THE WING BOX IS 33"X90".
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Old 07-18-2008, 03:12 PM
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

Hi Jack and Sierra Retract users. The length of my retract strut on my main wheel is 5 1/4 inches from Pivot point to bottom of strut upper casing. (see enclosed picture). Is this the length you all have? Seems too long to me! Jack - You mention a +/- dimension of 3 5/8 in. from top to top. I don't know where you are using that number? As I said in a previous post, I must put a 3/4 in. block under my main gear so during retraction the wheel just touches the nacelle fiberglass. If the strut was shorter, I could reduce the thickness of the 3/4 in. block. Thanks

Col. Chuck Winter
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Old 07-18-2008, 03:42 PM
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

Chuck

Am out of town until Sunday, will measure and repond then. The 3 5/8" dimension was fom the top of the former (the underside of the fiberglas nacalle) to the top of the 1/4" plate the landing ear spacer would sit on. All KMP parts.

Jack
Old 07-20-2008, 09:03 AM
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

Hi further to tip stall,,,

This is a Tip Stall on take off..
The tail wheel is never lifted during the takeoff roll and the angle of attack is too high.
The Aircraft is taken airborne to soon without sufficient airspeed and the left wing is not flying.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlVpn...eature=related
Old 07-22-2008, 04:28 AM
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

And here is another one,, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfb6a...eature=related
Old 07-22-2008, 02:02 PM
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

and on a happier note... Just weighed my TC and I was nicely surprised that it came in at 27.2 LBS!! The wing is 18.8 LBS and the fus is 8.4 LBS
This is dry weight. I was really thinking it would tip the scales at over 30 LBS.

The main components:

Twin Saito 170's
Two LiIon 5200's
One 3000 NiCd
Smatyfly power bus
all Hitec digitals...


Old 07-22-2008, 08:21 PM
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

Took the Tigercat to the club meeting, and as was said before by Vkerster or Charles Winters It was a big hit! I fired up the 170's did a few taxi passes down the runway with calls of go faster from the other club members - we all know what can happen we too much speed is applied...unscheduled flight!

So anyway I am glad I am alomst done with the build, all I really have left now is the gear doors. I'd like to find some spring open hinges so I can make a reak simple door mechinism.

Later
Old 07-22-2008, 09:15 PM
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

Chuck

I have same 5 1/4" dimension. KMP must have framed slightly different. Let me know if there are any other dimensions I can help with.
Jack

Old 07-23-2008, 10:50 AM
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

ORIGINAL: chasrb

Took the Tigercat to the club meeting, and as was said before by Vkerster or Charles Winters It was a big hit! I fired up the 170's did a few taxi passes down the runway with calls of go faster from the other club members - we all know what can happen we too much speed is applied...unscheduled flight!

Later
I am pretty sure I was the loudest one calling for more speed, UNFORTUNATELY Chasrb maintained his composure and kept the kitty on the ground. [] ()

Here is a video of the taxi test: http://www.rcuvideos.com/item/LTP0M8PLQVXN7JRN

It is my first video upload, and I appologize, but all I had with me was my older digital camera (5mp -low res by today's standards) and it formats to quicktime [:'(] .

I have another one that is a cloesup of the static engine runnup, but it is over the RCU size limit...
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Old 07-23-2008, 11:16 AM
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

Hi Charb!!

The sound of your saito is really impressive, nothing to compare of my 2 little G20

nice job [sm=thumbs_up.gif]
Old 07-23-2008, 08:11 PM
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

Hi, I'm new to the forum but I have a question and could really use some suggestions. I have the KMP Tigercat and am about 95% finished with the build. The big problem is how to hinge the "Main" gear doors on the lastest KMP version. The older ones came with a slotted cover that just screwed on and then the main gear just went in and out of it, not too scale! Now the later ones have two gear doors per side. Problem now is the compond curves of the doors make impossible to get a hinge set up that works. I'm trying work with Robart hinges, they seem the best so far but are proving a "Bear" to install. Just using expoxy I don't beleive will stand the air pressure from landing or taking off. Any one out there that has built one of these and solved the proble? []

The other problem which has been solved by friend and co-builder is the front nose gear and no way to keep it turning as it goes down it to and comes out of the nose. The factory forget to put a spring set up on it like all the other retrack systems out. What we did was design and duplicate a system very similar to Robart's nose wheel struct. Works just fine but someone that hasn't put too many "War Birds" like the Tri Gear F7F together will have a real problem. Anyone that needs further info on the nose gear, please contact me. This problem seems to be for all KMP Tri-Gear Gen II through Gen V, inculding non War Birds, any tri-gear system, either spring down air up or all air up/down has the same problem.

I understand that Andrew (KMP) is working on getting it solved but as of now it's still a problem. The F7F is a Great looking War Bird but once these problems are over come it should be a much better seller. We all know how money you put into a War Bird like this so I don't want anything to happen that could of/should of been corrected when they were designed. Tom
Old 07-23-2008, 10:15 PM
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

nice work chasrb your tiger cat sure sounds nice, whats your final all up weight??

cheers Rossco.
Old 07-24-2008, 05:22 AM
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

Finally my gen 5 retract arrived yesterday, they seem to be way better then the gen4.
maybe in 3 weeks I will fly my plane, if it's not rainning, in june it rained
25 days and july is not better

anyway
Old 07-27-2008, 03:32 PM
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

The cat weighed in at 27.2 lbs not to bad! I was thinking it would have been heavier.


P51B, thanks for taking the maiden taxi and posting the video. You are not my offical videographer! It sound good even on the video!

Where did you post or are going to post the other video -Y@@Tube maybe?
Old 07-27-2008, 03:37 PM
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

Streetfuz, man I have to say it. go thru the forum - there are a lot of conversations and pictures of the ways one can build the gear doors.
Old 07-27-2008, 07:55 PM
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat


ORIGINAL: chasrb

P51B, thanks for taking the maiden taxi and posting the video. You are not my offical videographer! It sound good even on the video!

Where did you post or are going to post the other video -Y@@Tube maybe?

Not your official videographer...

And to think, I was going to bring my actual video cam out for the maiden. [X(]


I wasn't planning on posting the other one (no youtube account...and don't really want one at the moment) , I can get you the file though.
Old 07-28-2008, 05:30 AM
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

[link]http://techmagazine.ws/free-online-file-storage/[/link]

P51B here are some alternatives to share files.


Thanks again.
Old 07-28-2008, 05:32 AM
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

...not my official videographer - meaing you still did a good job at taking the video. Sorry I did not finish the thought when I wrote that.
Old 07-30-2008, 04:47 PM
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

Hello All

Need blue touch up paint. Anyone have the formula or a small quantity to sell? Desparate to finish.

Jack
Old 07-30-2008, 04:56 PM
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

Model Master Acryl #4686 Dark sea blue is real close.
Old 07-30-2008, 09:14 PM
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Default RE: KMP F-7F Tigercat

CHSARB, T-CAT #2 WIEGHS IN AT 30 LBS. EVEN, WITH THE G- 26'S AND 6 OZ OF LEAD IN THE NOSE. AND 28 OZ. FOR FUEL, AND IT'S AT 31 LBS. 12 OZ TAKE OFF WEIGHT. T-CAT #1 WAS ABOUT 28 LBS. WITH THE FUEL. THE NEW SKIN KMP IS USING MUST BE HEAVIER, BUT 2 LBS. WORTH??? HOPE IS FLIES

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