Wayne22

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Well, he does speak highly of you...

F82FAN

My Feedback: (10)

Ok... Not much accomplished today, but was able to work through some issues.

First thing I did when I got to the hangar today was to start working on cutting the cowl to fit around the engine.
After the first measuring and cutting pass, here, much to my dismay, is what I found:

The engine was mounted 10mm too low. I trust the reference lines that the factory had placed, but they are off significantly.
SO, after all of that pain and constipation of installing the blind nuts yesterday, I got to un-install them all today!
That was issue #1. It didn't take but 15 minutes to do the fix on that engine, and since I hadn't drilled the other side yet, I just transferred the numbers to the other side. It works fine.
The spinner is a 3.25" FAI style and is very close to being correct in diameter (for us US blokes).

F82FAN

My Feedback: (10)

IF YOU DON"T GET ANYTHING ELSE OUT OF THIS BUILD ALONG, PLEASE LEARN FROM MY MISTAKES - I WILL TELL ON MYSELF HERE AND RISK MY MORTALITY!!!

The next thing I noticed MAY be the most significant "issue" of the entire build by the time it's over.

Remember that I couldn't get my hand in the nacelle to install blind nuts? There is SO much structure for the retracts, tank mount, etc. and wing-tube that I just couldn't get in there.

THEN I found out why...

Yes, I had read the instructions. They are pretty standard Ching-a-lese with lots of drawings and arrows. We all malign them, but they serve a purpose.
Well, they also have a certain ORDER IN WHICH THIS AIRPLANE MUST BE BUILT, unless you are going to mod the nacelles like I now have to, since that I have screwed up (sort of) and built out of order.
The instructions expect you to: Mount the engines and servos. Install the fuel tanks. Install the retracts and hoses. And even do the gear doors BEFORE YOU ASSEMBLE THE WING PANELS!!!! The factory way gives you complete nacelles before ANY other assembly is done. Nice and tidy, eh?

I got so excited with the speed of assembly and visual progress that I did NOT install the ENGINES, tanks, etc, before I PERMANENTLY GLUED THE WING TOGETHER.
Once you glue the wing TUBE in place, you can NOT install the tanks!!!

Now, I've been building for more than a few years, and have had more than one fuel tank ISSUE (leaks, installed up-side down...) but NEVER before have I run into an airplane that I was expected to PERMANENTLY install the fuel tanks (ok, maybe on my control-line birds). Never to be seen or maintained again.

Maybe there are others that would think it's no problem, but I'm almost glad I screwed up and have to do an alternate method of accomplishment for the tank installs. At least this way I can get them in and out WHEN something goes wrong, or it's time to change a line.

The Tanks are 550cc (as marked on the tanks). That's about 20oz's! You 4-stroke guys are gonna have about 10-minutes max with 1.80's. They measure about 2.5"X2.5"X6.5" overall. NOT MUCH EXTRA ROOM FOR BIGGER TANKS ON THIS ONE GUYS.

I ended up cutting a square access-hole in the firewalls and then installing the tanks from the front. The firewalls are about 9mm thick(5/16") and are plenty strong (IMO) even with the cut-away. I will make a 1/8" ply plate to glue over the hole before I install the engines.
The nice thing about my screw up is that now it is VERY easy to get to everything inside the nacelles!
See pics...
Notice that the internal bulkheads don't line up with the firewall reference lines!?!?!

One interesting thing about the internal nacelle engineering: The fuel tanks will sit almost level when the aircraft is at rest. You can see in the pics that the tanks don't slide in level - they angle as they go back!

RickVB

My Feedback: (24)

Wow, that sounds like a real design screw-up to me. Maybe I'm just lousy at assembling tanks, but I'm always fighting with leaks and changing fuel lines. Can't imagine ever having a permanent tank installation...

By the way, is there any possibility of a main tank/header tank arrangement here?

fockewulf37

My Feedback: (102)

They way I had looked at it. I was never going to permentaly install the tube spar myself. I plan on making a plate inside the nacelle to place a screw into the tube to hold it in place. I was also going to place a hard point and screw in the outboard wing also. I have found after owning the KMP OV-10 that the rubberband holding the outboard wing on does not work very well. I had not got far enough along to go over this in my build yet...

Ty

YOADRIAN

I also fall into that class, must be the engineer in us always looking for ways to get to something if needing to. Sry to hear about your bump with the building process F82fan i see your point in the photos is there anyway to open an access hatch under the nacelles to reach the tanks? I see that the aircraft wings sit at an upward angle in the org aircraft while the nacelles sit streight i wonder why they would tilt the fuel tanks that way? keep us posted and by the way i have been in and out of this sport since the age of 12 and being 45 now, i can tell you, no one ever stops making mistakes that we thought we would not make again. Thank you for being so honest, the mark of a true builder.

F82FAN

My Feedback: (10)

Hey Ty,
I just never considered that I would be painting myself into a corner, Or I wouldn't have glued the wing tube in either. I think I followed the directions on that, I just got it out of order.

YOADRIAN, thanks for the kind words. I'm not sure, but I think they wanted to keep the fuel tanks as level on the ground as possible? Funny, because I want them level in flight ,and if they are level on the ground they will tilt FORWARD when in fight...
There is NO room in those little cowlings to install any kind of access. It is FULL of formers, bulkheads, and STUFF. Since the firewalls are so thick I have every confidence that they will pose no problem over the long term. Like I said, it is kinda good that I screwed up NOW, so the access is there and I know what to do when something goes bad!

fockewulf37

My Feedback: (102)

By no means was I belittling the following the instructions. I think you Worked this out well considering the way this was designed.
This is why we do these build threads. To help those who are planning to build one. I had thought about enlarging the hole in the firewall also. The nacelle appears to be plenty strong to handle the hole that needs to be made to access your tanks......

Ty.

F82FAN

My Feedback: (10)

UPDATE FOR THE DAY.....

What we got accomplished today was almost completely void of anything worthy of picture-taking.

I didn't make time to stop by the LHS before they closed, so I didn't get the small Tygon fuel tubing for the tank installations, therefore I did other productive stuff.

I completed the servo mounts for the flaps and ailerons, so those will get mounted tomorrow. I had to MAKE the servo blocks, because the "kit" (I never know what to call an ARF) didn't have enough for 4 servos - only 2. I ended up making them out of 1/4" light-ply. Took an extra 2 minutes on the band saw to make!

We are also short on dowels for anti-rotation pins. I got 6 dowels and need 7 minimum - and that's cutting the ones we got in half (they are still plenty long). For the CenterSection pins I had some 5/16" dowel and just cut that to length - 10-seconds on the band saw.

Didn't have but one screw for the nice new style control horns (pics after install). I bought four 6-32X2.5" counter-sunk machine screws and self-locking nuts to finish ours up. We will probably have the flight controls hooked up and fuel tanks installed tomorrow..

I was kind of piddling today, so I cut out all of the plastic pieces that will be attached at the end of the build and set them aside.

I also checked to see how those beautiful exhaust stacks (included!) look in the cowls. All I can say is: There WILL be those that KNOW the exhaust aren't perfect scale, but for a mass prduced ARF, the factory has done a great job on that detail. I (sort of) envy the Electric crowd, because they won't be hacking up the cowling to install propulsion units.
Looks like we will have 3 or 4 stacks left on each side of the cowling, when all the cutting is done. I am posting a nice couple of pics for reference. We WILL be painting the lower wing-panels yellow - just like the pics!

One last reminder about the exhaust: Take a mental note that, on the full scale birds (that look like this version) the exhaust stacks point UP on the out-board side of the nacelle, and DOWN on the in-board sides. Something to think about when installing them in your cowls. I'm SURE there are exeptions to this, but the bird we have is as described.


I got the engines ready for final mounting after we put in the tanks. I changed the throttle arms and made certain that they match up so they swing in the exact same arc. This will keep things in better synch - without adding a twin-sync. I noticed that, because the cowls are so slim, the throttle arms are almost outside of the cowls, so it remains to be seen what the pushrod requirement will be.

As I said early on - we are missing some items, but rather than hold up progress, we'll just fix it now and notify KMP what is missing.

F82FAN

My Feedback: (10)

Ty,
I didn't think you were - It just never crossed my mind not to glue the whole thing. My mention of the instructions was me thinking that maybe I miissed that, too!
Strong? I think you could pile this one in from 500 feet and the nacelles will be perfect. You electric guys could save 5-lbs with a Dremmel and about two hours!

F82FAN

My Feedback: (10)

Hey Rick,
There is virtually NO extra room in that nacelle for a header tank set-up. I even looked in case someone wants to "up-size" the fuel tanks. One would have to cut out most of the nacelle bulkheads and start all over. You can't go aft, cuz the wing-tube is there. If you cut things out you can go wider....Just do it BEFORE YOU GLUE THE WING TUBE IN!!!!!

F82FAN

My Feedback: (10)

The nice thing about building a twin is that you have one side to practice on, and one side to make perfect!

Lastly, I don't know what we are going to do for spinners.
The one I mounted up to check the cowls is a 3.25" FAI style pattern spinner. It's as close as I've seen - off the shelf - and that's WAY off!
Others are too "Mustang-y" or T-6-ish.

RickVB

My Feedback: (24)

Did you consider the [link=http://www.rcshowcase.com/html/RCS/rcs26sv.html]RCS SV26[/link] for power? I know it's a half inch too long with standoffs long enough to clear the carb (is there room enough for that?), but it's not as tall as the G-26 and it's much narrower, so you would probably cut out a lot less cowl. Plus it's cheaper...

fockewulf37

My Feedback: (102)

Hey guys,
I just talked to my graphics guy. He has made made graphics for my 109 kit that I offer. The swastika's are the same size needed for the ME 110.

I can get them for $2 each if any of you are interested. ... I have to get a set of decals done for a 109 and I am going to have these done also....

Ty

F82FAN

My Feedback: (10)

Hey Rick,
Nope, never considered them because I already had these laying around waiting for a good project.

F82FAN

My Feedback: (10)

I'd LOVE a set FW!
I need them for my FW-190 also.
That makes 4 total. Please fwd me ifo on how to pay and I'll get you my mailing address.
Thanks!

F82FAN

My Feedback: (10)

Ok. It's update time.
I worked hard and got a lot done today.
Hard to believe that this is the same manufacturer as the T-cat!

I got tanks installed. Servo's in the wings and the Main Landing Gear (MLG for future reference) installed.

First things, first:

I started the day with the tanks. Things went pretty quickly once I settled on tubing sizes, etc.
As you can see in the pics, I am using the Sullivan Aluminum Tank Stoppers. These are a bit pricey, but they are worth every dime, in my book. They are SO solid it is comforting knowing they will outlast the airplane!

Pic 1) Tank from the front of the nacelle. It shows that I stuffed foam UNDER the tank in order to make it a bit more level in flight.
Pic 2) This shows the gap before I stuffed the foam in there.
Pic 3 & 4) These two show that I jambed the piece of fuel tubing that came in the tanks under the bulkhead to keep the tank from moving back and forth at all. THis is the middle bulkhead and the tightest of the three, so it was perfect to jamb that tubing under. I used the tubing that came with it since I am going gas and it wasn't compatible anyway.
I drew it black in the 4th pic so you can see it better.

F82FAN

My Feedback: (10)

Next I moved to flap and aileron servos. Since I glued the blocks on yesterday before I quit for the day, they were ready to put servos right into today.

Pic 1 is of the stock blocks that came in the kit. I epoxied them to the plates and also used thin CA and soaked them where the screws would be drilled.
Pic 2 is of the blocks that I fabricated to keep the project moving. Just ply pieces cut to size and epoxied into position. Notice in this pic hos close to the edge of the plate the servo is when the arm is centered in the hole.
Pic 3 shows the mount flange before I had to clearance it for the servo
Pic 4 is after clearancing
Pic 5 shows the plate installed in the wing. It actually isn't sticking up like it seems. I think it is from the angle of the camera. The decal is off JUST a tad at the front.

All 4 servos went in in about 20 minutes.

F82FAN

My Feedback: (10)

Next on the list was the MLG.
GET THE DREMMEL OUT............................................... ............[>:]

Before installing the main landing gear I took the time to put locktite on EVERY screw in each gear. After that was complete, I checked for freedom of movement to make sure that things were not overtightened, etc.
HOWEVER... The gear block that holds the legs in would not let it retract all the way.[&o]
That's because the biggest screw in the whole gear (the one that holds the leg into the block) is just a couple of threads too long. I just took the cut-off wheel in the Dremmel and, after tightening the screw down, cut the exposed threads flush with the side of the block.

These two pics don't show the "after" effect, but trust me, they work very smoothly now. These pics show the thread sticking out of the side of the block.

F82FAN

My Feedback: (10)

So, everything is all secured and now it was time to actually just drop the mains in the mount rails and drill a few holes and then wha-la! the gear are done, right?
WRONG - Get the DREMMEL out...............[>:][&o]

I had to use a bunch of battery to drum sand out the area needed to allow the MLG to sit down all the way into the rails.
Pic 1 shows SOME of the grinding of the mid-tank former and also a side plate near the back of the gear (near the pink hose in this pic) that prevented the gear from lining up correctly.
Pic 2 & 3 shows the gear installed. You can better see how much was removed from the side plate in order to align the gear.
I also up-sized the screw size - MY CHOICE. They are now #10X3/4" sheetmetal screws. After drilling the holes and installing the gear, I took everything back out, CA'd all of the holes in the rails, and then re-installed the gear.

Total time for the gear install was about an hour.

F82FAN

My Feedback: (10)

Last items of the day were the throttle servos. The nice thing about these nacelles is that you have MANY options when it comes to installing the servos.
Just remember - the nacelles are NOT symmetrical - they are mirror images, therefore, you will probably NOT be able to put the servos in the same hole in both nacelles.
I only took this right nacelle shot. You can see that I mounted the servo up near the front of the nacelle. On the other nacelle, I had to mount the servo in the plate next to the gear leg because the carbs are on the right side of the engine, thus the right side it is outboard, and the left is vice-versa.

F82FAN

My Feedback: (10)

So that's it for today.
Things are really coming along and, for the most part, I am VERY pleased with the build.
I'm into the build for about 15 hours and really don't have all that much left to do.

Here are the servos used thus far:
Rudders - 2ea Hitec HS125MG
Elevator - 1ea Hitec HS 5245MG
Ailerons - 2ea JR 821 sport digitals
Flaps - 2ea JR 821 sport digitals
Throttles - 2ea Hitec HS225BB

That's 9 servos so far, with only two to go before we go flying! LOL!!!

To finish the build I need to:
Install all control horns into the flight control surfaces.
Install the tail wheel assembly - this will probably consume most of the remaining time since I may change it from the factory set-up.
Finish the installation of the retract plumbing.
The retract and the tailwheel steering servos will finish up the servo installs.
Put the plates over the firewall holes to close the nacelles.
Cut the other cowling to clear the engine.
Re-install both engines.
Join the wings and mount to the fuse.
Add set-screws to the mid-outboard wing panels to secure the outer panels.
Glue on the plastic pieces.
Install crazy German pilots and the canopy.
Set-up the radio.
Go fly!
I think I'll be into it for another ten hours at this point. Just guessing...

This last pic of the day is just the plumbing and wiring that is now crawling out of one wing half...

LATER!

Lifer

My Feedback: (1)

F-82fan,

What is your opinion of a centrally-mounted fuel tank for both engines, assuming they are pump-equipped gasoline engines? I will be starting a KMP B-25 soon and am exploring my options. Thank you in advance for your reply.

lifer

F82FAN

My Feedback: (10)

Hey Lifer,
You couldn't fit one big tank in the center section of this bird, but the B-25 has lot's of room. I don't know why it wouldn't work if you have pumped gassers. I had thought of putting it under the belly pan of my B-25, but we ended up using the stock set-ups. I may put a big smoke tank under the belly pan since it will have a Sullivan pump to move the smoke fluid to the mufflers!

nemesis4u

My Feedback: (77)

F82FAN,

GREAT PROGRESS... GOING TOGETHER REALLY FAST!! photo journal is outstanding!
Nice airline.... now where is that ruler!!!

I will now be stocking the RCGF engines soon!! SO now you can get the gassers in 20cc , 26cc, etc all at the
same time.. make it easier to ship the BF-110s and engines at the same time...

Lifer,,, YOu should have your KMP B-25 at your door tomorrow!!

-CHEERS!

TOMAS
VQ WARBIRDS
VQ, ASM, KMP DEALER
[email protected]
www.vqwarbirds.com