matador_24

Hello guys,
I just bought a c160 ARF kit, the camouflage. It has been 1 year that I want this plane! I read already most of the threads in this forum about the plane. I saw there are a few guys who own one or more!. Instead making questions in those forums, I prefer to create this on to make it faster and not get confused. I am new with twins but I'll learn fast! I am currently going to a club here in Montreal, Qc (I fly mostly nitro helis and a couple of single engine nitro planes). I got people there who can help me but I want to bother them the less I can and also, doing the most possible by myself will help me to learn faster.

I bought 2 x .25FX that I'll be installing and I am sure it will fly amazing with them! I already read about it in this forum.

1. I have 6 x futaba FS148 (44oz torque, .23 sec.). Do u guys think they are enought for this plane????? I am mostly planning to fly scale and maybe in a far future when I feel confident a couple of loops and rolls. Should I buy new servos or I am fine with them?

2. I only have left 1 x 1100mah battery (4.8v). Can I use it or I should get something bigger? do u guys have any idea of how many flights I can get with that battery? (Considering 8 mins average flights) I also have a 4000mah 4.8v!!!! but I think it is to heavy for the plane. what do u think?

3. Is finally better to use with my engines 9x6, 9x5 or 9x4 propeller? I might tend to think that for this plane the 9x5 sounds good, however, I might think also that less pitch is better but I am not sure.

For now those are my inquiries. I do not have much time to work on the plane but I'll try to do it as fast as I can. I hope u guys can help me out with that exciting plane!

P.S. Do not worry about final details, and the maiden because I'll ask help in my club to experienced guys to do the maiden.


Thanks!!!!

I'll post pictures when I do some building!

Prop_Washer2

My Feedback: (26)

Those servos (which are considered standard size), should work fine. The OS .25 FX's should be planty as well. 9x6 or 9x5 should be fine as well as the 1100 mah pack. I have the C-160 as well, (white one) but it is still new in the box. A buddy in my club has one (camo) and has 2 Magnum .25's on it. Flies great, even at 4'000 altitude. Fugure 3% power loss for each 1'000 ft altutude gain, so we are 12% down on power here, in El Paso Texas. Your bird should fly well, just get both engines running reliably, they don't need to be that close in RPM, it will fly the same. Ed Moorman dispelled quite a few myths on twin engined birds, he installed a TT .40 plain bushing motor, and a TT GP .42 ball bearing motor on the same bird, quite a bit of difference in power like 2500 rpm's difference, and the bird flew fine with no yawing or anything. Good luck amd post some pics...!!!

matador_24

Hello, thanks for your inputs, I'll keep the 1100mah battery but I think I'll get at least a 1500mah eventually, I prefer to have lots of charge.
I am finally using 9x4" propellers, it resulted I had a couple of them at home, do u think they will do fine??? As the engines are very powerful and the engine is not acrobatic, I would think that low pitch would be fine for this plane, what do u guys think??????

Something else, I am basically new with small engines, I have always flown .46s. a guys told me that I must break-in the engines (OS 25FX) with 15% nitro (which I use with my OS46s), but then after 2-3 tanks, I should switch to 5% nitro otherwise, I would burn out the engines..... is that true????? I thought 25FX would use the same 15% nitro always.... can anyone give me some inputs?????

Thanks!!!

matador_24

Well, some people in other forums answered me back, I should use 10% with my OS 25FXs, so I'll do that.....

A question specifically for this plane.....
I was putting together the engines, fuel tanks, cowls, etc anddddddddddddddddddd.... well, it is very tough to make it close now!!!! it took me too long to install the engines, servos, etc and then try to put finally the cowls on and them!!!! it does not close very well!!!! and I do not really want to move everything around again

Question:

Can I cut off some parts of the cowls?? I do not mind because once the wing is installed on the plane (ready to fly), you could not see the holes I would make on the cowls, I think it would help to mount better the cowls... does anyone with this plane have an opinion???

FHD

Howdy
Im in winnipeg.
I have the same C160 that you have.
I put the main fuel tanks in the fuse and header tanks in the nacelles.
All the other info the other guys gave you is great.
Dont go by the info re the elevator deflections,make sure you have a lot of up,this depends on the suppier of the model.
If you would like to know how i did the tank installation ,send me a pm and ill help you out on what i did .
Is a rather sort of long explanation but simpull
I cn get about 12-15 minute easily on a flight,then you hand it over to your g/son,usually its the other way around.
Tke care
Frank

matador_24

thanks for the help FHD, it seems the plane is ready for the maiden, I'll try to do it this sunday to see what happens.

I got another question, I have 2 batteries: 1 x 1100mah NiCd and 1 x 4000mah NiMh,
I am currently using 3 digital servos on the plane (2 ailerons and 1 in rudder, all what I had around) the other 3 are standard so I was wondering if I should use the 1100mah or the 4000mah. I would like to use the 4000mah for more security, especially the first flights that I'll be adjusting stuff....... do you think is it too heavy??? the 4000mah battery is almost double the weight of the 1100mah....

I guess that with the 4000mah I can get MANY flights, but what about the 1100mah, how many 8mins flights you guys think I can get with my current set up????

FHD

HOWDY AGAIN
I USE 1100 NICD BAETTRY PACKS ON JUST ABOUT ALL MY AIR PLANES,EXCEPT ON IGNITION,THEY ARE LARGER.
AT OUR CLUB ,WINNIPEG HEADINGLEY AEROMODELES JUST ABOUT ALL THE GUYS HAVE FAST FEILD CHARGERS AND EXPANDED SCALE VOLTMETERS.
THIS WAY I ALWAYS CHECK MY BATTERYS BEFORE EACH AND EVERY FLIGHT.
IF YOU DONT SOME DAY YOUR GOING TO WISH YOU HAD.
ITS YOUR CHOICE ABOUT THE BATTERY PACKS.
LET US KNOW HOW THE MAIDEN FLIGHT GOES.
JUST MAKE SURE YOU CAN HAVE LOTS OF UP ELEVATER
DONT YANK IT OFF.
TAKE CARE
FRANK

matador_24

thanks, but do you think that the 4000mah would be too heavy or you think it is all right????? (thinking about trying to soar during a dead stick!)

also, why do you mention the high range of elevator??? is that plane really elevator demanding??? I have a standard servo there, nothing special....

FHD

HOWDY
Re the battery,USE ANY ONE YOU WANT TO ,YOU WONT HAVE A PROBLEM,JUST MAKE SURE ITS CHARGED.
The reason i mentioned the elevotor a few times is that it could be the incedence could be wrong.mine was.
When i flew the first time i needed all the up elevater i could get,full up trim and i was ok.
I just adjusted the elevater to compensate for this problem at the servo.
Some of the guys sanded etc on the fuse to get to line up properly but thats a lot of work.
Just go and fly and you will realy like this air plane.
Just all it A BABY HERC
TC
FRANK

matador_24

hehe, thanks for the tip
Well, apparently I am giving a nice throw to my elevator, I want to believe it should be fine. I just doublechecked everything and it is ready for the maiden I think. Engines almost die at the same time with the trim which means they are pretty much close. My tachometer is dead, it does not work (good moment to fail), so, I tunned both independently and then together and they seem to be pretty close, I kind of tunned them together based on the temperature of each, I am getting about 130-135F while idling in both.

Before the maiden, I'll ask to one of the guys his tachometer to finish tunning the engines.

It seems the maiden will be on sunday! I already checked the GC with the 1100mah and it is very nice, I'll bring the 4000mah just in case or I might decide to put it, I always prefer to have lots of Mah left. 1100mah seems to me very tight for 4-5 flights of 10mins using 3 digitals on the plane. I'll be checking the voltage....

FHD

Howdy
When you tune your engines just make sure that the weaker one is the MAIN engine.
Detune your best engine to match the weaker one.
IF YOU TRY TO MATCH YOUR WEAKER ONE TO THE BEST ENGINE YOU WILL FAIL AND WILL PUT IT IN,IN A HURRY .
When you are on final for landing dont throttle down to far,let it settle in and you will be just fine
Hope evry thing works out for you.
Take care
Frank
ps
did you check the horizontal balance (side to side)?

matador_24

Hello,

Well, today was the 'attempt' to the maiden, butttttttttttt, it ended up in a crash... []
I taxied it for one tank, and it seemed fine, I just love the look of the plane!. Then refilled the tanks and gave it to one of my experienced 'mentors' (he has level-D wings and many years of experience in planes), the plane could not have been in better hands, in fact, it is the second time he crashed a plane in his life, he felt really sorry about that.

Here is what happened:
There was crosswind and some gusts (30kms/hr), we were paralleled to the runway (in the middle) and the guy took off the plane in a very short lenght, about 20 feet, the plane took off but seemed to have pushed by a gust towards us!!!! (coming directly to us), the guy said the plane was pulling too much to the right (towards us) maybe by the wind, maybe by some mistake in my building process. He just got nervous because it was coming close and lost it. It crashed about 6 feet from us , the wing hit the ground, 1/3 of the wing came out because of the strike but it did not break off, just unglued. Also, the fuselage received some strikes and there are some breaking along the fuselage.

The guys of the club said it can be easily fixed by reinforcing the damage parts with fiber glass, they know how to do it and they will help me out within the next 2 weeks (I hope before). The pilot can not tell too much about what happened and I understand, you know that it is very fast and the pilot is the last one knowing what happened.

How I see it, the guy has been flying lastly yaks, extras and many aerobatic planes (50 or 75cc gas), I could guess that he is used to the fast response of those planes and he tried to take off my plane in that such short distance. He did not give enough speed, gave too much elevator to take off, thus, because he does not know the plane, he gave too much elevator and that along with the wind gust made the plane almost stand vertically, then, because it did not have lots of speed and the wing span is not big, it had to stall to one side and the rest is history...... that is my explanation....but I am not sure.....

what do you guys think??????

I checked with them the GC before flying and everything was fine. Hey FHD, what do you mean by the horizontal balance??? I installed everything simmetrical, I did not check if the weight of the plane was symetrical on each side but I do not think there could be a huge difference that could make the plane stalls to one side.

FHD

howdy
sorry to hear about the crash.
but.
i dont like to second guess any one,i wasnt there.
ill send a pm.

TooLow

My Feedback: (5)

sorry bout the crash. Hope its repairable because they look great in the air. You have to gain airspeed to get them off the ground unless you power it with 40's, then it "might" 3D! Too many people depend on excess power like a foamy thinking everything will fly that way- - -it dont! My 160 is powered with a pair of inexpencive Thunder Tiger GP25's. Once under way it will pull as many loops as you want fron level flight, yea- - Real scale like! I have a 2200 ma pack for power and fly all day without recharging, also helps on balancing the plane too!

FHD

Howdy
Ive got a couple of OS 25 la,s in mine and it has all the power that i want.
Flys great.
The snow is starting to disappear the feilds drying up so i had better get the batterys charged.
tc
Frank

aerowoof

could of been the wind or even one ehgine looseing rpm causing a yaw,too bad good luck with the repairs

matador_24

Hey Too low!

Your plane looks great!!!!! I am glad you are having fun with it. Yeahp, that guy must be used now to fly powerful planes, I always see him taking off in short and doing a roll right after 2feet from the ground with his planes. I think he just got too confident with my plane []

I wish I had had those plastic screws you are using on the wing, that would have definely saved some damage of the fuselage, I'll get them for next time.... what size are they???

Man, I will not give up, this is just starting to be interesting and challenging! I just love the sound of the twins, I will not leave it eventhough it crashes again during maiden and I gotta buy another kit!

TooLow

My Feedback: (5)

Thanks for the compliment! The nylon bolts are standard 1/4 20 thread from the hardware store. Just tap out the hardwood mounts with a tap and harden them with thin zap and your good to go! Was yours the built up wing or a foam wing. I have seen them both on the C-160's. Just wondering. I have the built up wood wing,not planning on dinging it anytime soon.

matador_24

No idea, I think it is wooden wing but not sure, the wing did not break off, it just unglued from 1/3 of the total wing.... I'll get those screws

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

This fact alone indicate this gentleman may have been a poor choice and don,t think for a moment one who only flys the excellent flying types you mentioned is neccessarily qualified.

The more you talk of the incident the more obvious is the fact he simply yanked it off the ground far to soon and it was aggrivated by a substancial cross wind hence the inevitable stall spin takeoff accident.

First off do not do test flights on a windy day. Now this gentleman probably realizes what he really did but naturally reluctant to admit it. That likely at this point makes him the best choice for the next test flight.

John

matador_24

Hello Jhon,
Yes, as I saw it, it was a fast take-off with a plane that needs higher speed before taking off. I really saw the plane almost in vertical position at 3-4 feet of the ground, I think that there is not much to do with a plane like that to save from a crash. I guess that plane does not have neither the structure nor the power to climb vertically as an aerobatic or trainer plane, an there the stall to one of the sides. Your explanation is what happened but with technical terms. I trusted him because I know he is good and he made the maiden of my first plane with sucess, besides a really nice guy and buddy.

He was really sorry and even though he did not admit was his fault and he did it was HIS second crash in his life and since he was very very sorry and said that, I am sure that he realized the mistakes he did just as you said.

Just to make sure that I properly understood. Why do u say that he is the best candidate for the next try?????

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

Its a simple concept really, its the been there done that syndrome 'He is now the most experianced person at your field with that airplane'.

What is even more important is its likely he knows exactly what happened and that mistake will not likely happen agine.

I think you will learn over time that someone that has never crashed an airplane is not always a good indicator of a well rounded pilot.
I think more often than not it only indicates that they never venture past their comfort Zone and stick to just one venue. This is fine and in no way an indictment of your friend and yes based upon what you have said I feel that at this point he is the best choice.

Other common assumptions about pilot skills:

He flys helicopters so he will have no trouble with airplanes.

He flys Airplanes so he will have no trouble with helicopter.

He flys full scale so he will have no trouble with toy airplanes.

He flys RC single engine aerobatics so he will have no trouble flying an RC twin when the engine quits.


See where I am going and there are a wide variety of more. Do you see the one common thread in all the assumptions above? Its the fact that all those transitions require flight skills that are not intuitive. Intuitive is the key word, those skills do not come by osmosis.

Just my thoughts with no slur of you friend intended.

John

maxpower1954

John has made some excellent points, as usual.

It's hard for the lesser experienced who don't have confidence in their own skills to find a qualified guy to flight test a multi. We have over 120 members in my club, and I'm the only one currently flying glow twins, although a friend is building a Duelist.

Go on YouTube and watch some of the maiden flight blunders done by so-called "experienced" flyers - reversed ailerons, premature lift-offs with a tip stall/loss of directional control, it goes on and on. A very poor technique I see is standing directly behind the model on take-off, or starting the roll directly in front versus a take-off run far enough down the runway to break ground aproximately abeam the pilot. With the first technique, who knows what speed or attitude you have at lift-off, way down the runway...Russ Farris

MarkF

I have this same plane and just did the maiden flight. Wow does it need up elevator. Wish I would have found this thread earlier. The plane flys great and I'm very happy with it. Here's my set up.
2 Axi 2820 1200 kv motors - 2 Castle 54 amp thunderbird controllers - 2 thunder power 3s 3850 lipos - 2 Hobby Lobby 9.5 X 8.8 4 blade props pulling about 52 amps. I'll try to get some video next time out.

Mark

matador_24

That is a beautiful plane Mark... I have not had luck with mine!!!!!

I crashed again!!!! well, not me, I asked another experienced pilot to do the maiden (second maiden because the first one ended up in a light crash) and well, I do not know what happened this time... the pilot is very good (not the same than the first one), very carefull and all, as you can see in the video, he took off properly... but I do not know what happened, you can see that somehow he just lost altitude horrible before crashing.... I wonder if he let go too much the elevator or what......

After the first slight crashed, we reinforced the fuselage with fiberglass and resine.... I do not know if now it is too heavy and that is why it is tougher to crash. I just checked the weight and it is:
4.8pounds the body
4.4pounds the wing, total = 9.2 pounds....

Could anyone weight with his plane (WING AND FUSELAGE separated please) if my plane is now too heavy??? In the manual it says 7pounds but I guess that plus engines/servos,bat, etc....

Something else.... I would like that those who read this forum can watch the video and try to make a diagnosis of the cause.....

The plane is still reparable, pretty much all the hit was absorbed by the landing gear as you can see, I lost 1 completely (the metal broke off) but I guess I can make one. One of the engines came unglue partially but it can be centered and glue back.... the rest is fine.... I just wonder if it is worth it to fix it or it is too heavy or has something wrong and it is better to get a new kit...... I repeat, last week during the first maiden I can say that the pilot took off too soon.... but this time, well, I think this guy did it properly.... but I see in the video how the plane just went into the ground as if he pushed the elevator but It is weird...... all what he told me is that when he took off, because the plane was going too fast, he just reduced slightly the throttle and then bam!!!!

Opinions please....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMdx0U_T7VU