Flyboy Dave

My Feedback: (21)

Put me in....for the "Big Twin".

Dave.

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Dave, are you trying to steal my idea for lousy couplets about twins?

Your imitation's not flattery, come here, let's try assault and battery.

Teasing of course.

Hey Y'all - there's a new "Duellist" out there. Northeast Aerodynamics has what looks like a Duellist with constant chord wings. I've ordered one, $155 INCLUDING FREIGHT! Same wing span, area 812sq" opposed to Duellist at 795sq", fuselage is 53", that's 10" longer than the Duellist. I've ordered one, when it arrives I'll post more info here. Check it for yourself at http://www.ne-aero.com . Email [email protected]

Bigger twin, bigger WIN!

Bill

Flyboy Dave

My Feedback: (21)

....negateevo....I was just throwin' my hat it the
ring to get in on the cuttin' of those over-size
Dualist's. I have a regular Dualist in the pile now.

I had a TwinStar, but sadly it went in after about
10 flights, due to a Futaba switch (lost power).
I went down to Hobby People the next day, and
got the last one they had. Was at the old price too
...$109. They had one left, at the west Hollywood
store....and was supposed to transfer it out to the
Cucamonga store for me....but as it turned out the
kit was damaged, and they wouldn't sell it.

Did you know that there really is a place....called
"Cucamonga"?

Dave.

OldRookie

My Feedback: (13)

I have been keeping my notes for all of the suggestions, on how to build the perfect Pica Duiellist.
Get out your notebooks because here is the perfect set up for building the Pica Duellist, according to all the people that participated in this thread.

Lading gear...Retracts or Fixed. If Retracts are used, move the landing gear out one bay to allow longer gear legs and more prop to ground clearance.
Replace the light ply landing gear doublers with some good aircraft plywood.
If the nose wheel is used, reinforce the former it bolts to.
Make sure the wing is fiberglassed, or just use your favorite iron on.
Engine Down Thrust ...Set At EXACTLY -9°, or -7°,or -3°, or-2°, or 0°
Stab Incidence... Set At EXACTLY +2°,or 0°,or-2°
Wing Incidence...Set At EXACTLY +2°,or 0°
Engine Right Thrust...Set At EXACTLY 0°,or 3°,or4°
This can be set with any combination of angles on the left engine from 0° to 4°.
Nacelle Incidence...Set at EXACTLY 0°OR, -2°
Fuel System...Use EXACTLY 1tank, or 2 tanks, or 3 tanks. Pumps are encouraged, or discouraged.

After looking at this set up I can see where there may be some room for error!
Why don't we as a multi engine group, refine this list, and have it available as a FAQ to new comers to this forum looking for a good twin to BUILD. If we could come up with a solid set up for the Pica Duellist, this may be all it would take to get an interested person to go that one step further and buy a kit, and build to our recommendations. This would make for more successful first flights, and a long term interest in multi engine planes. The more multi engine fryers the better. The kit manufactures may even get a couple of new kits on the market.
Naaa...We would probably see a Duellist ARF first! Ha!

Greg

Flyboy Dave

My Feedback: (21)

.....for clearing that up for us, and especially me. I
was gonna set the figures in concrete myself for
future feference but became confused .

I want my Duelist to be "just perfect too"...so I'm
gonna print this valuable information out, and put
it in with the kit, so there won't be any confusion
later.

The only problem I have now....is how to determine
which version I have. It's been sitting in the plie
for a long time, indoors, and the condition of the box
deterioration is not a good indicator. How can I tell if
I have the early, intermediate or late version ? Mine
could be early-early, or very early, or pre-modification
early....or early enough that only the original designer
had any clue as to how to set the plane up.

If it falls into the intermediate versions, then I could
have some serious decisions to make. Thank goodness
I don't have one of the later kits....or the early late, or
medium late, really late, Super late, or Johnny come
Lately kits. But then again if the later kits are really
newer kits....and fall into the modern modification era,
then clearly.... all bets are off.... :stupid:

Until i can figure out what Duelist I really have, I'm
gonna keep practicing-up on this Twin Star.

Thanks again for clearing them specs up.

Dave.

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Old Rookie:

Your description of multi users reminds me of why the cannibals didn't bake the Roman Catholic missionary: he wasn't roaster, he was a FRIAR. (pardon the lousy pun)

Regards the angles, Sir, you have a noted a definite point of imprecision.

What I'm looking for is the definitive word on the best angles, as are others.

It Seems that Dave Platt wants everything at zero-zero, but different versions of the kits have several different alignments including zero-zero, and just about every other combination anyone has thought up.

I have a Duellist kit waiting for construction, it is the "Twisted" version - that is the one with nothing at zero degrees. Morten Tanger is credited for the design.

Another post said he had a kit that was straight - all zero-zero. Dave Platt is credited for this one.

My scratch building has shown that, for me, zero-zero flies best for high speed and aerobatics, and still makes an easy flier. My "Twisted Twin" flies like a dog. I have to be honest about that one though, the wing loading is very high, and this in itself could be the cause of the poor flight characteristics.

I have ordered the Duellist Mk II plan, as far as I am concerned Dave Platt is a much more authoritative source than Morten Tanger. If Platt has the Mk II at zero-zero my kit will be constructed at zero-zero. If the Mk II is twisted I'll leave mine as it is drawn, or modify to the Mk II angles if different from mine.

Bringing mine to an effective zero-zero will only require alteration of the engine thrust lines to +2 degrees. Effective zero? That wil leave the fuselage pointing two degrees down, I don't think that will have a great effect on the way it flies.

So I and others are waiting to see what the boss of Duellist designer's latest epistle says.

But I don't think it really matters, as all versions fly very well - a testament to the basic excellent design of Dave Platt.

Twisted or straight, a Duellist flies great.

Bill

PS to Flyboy Dave:

Your post came up as I was writing this epistle.

As far as I can tell, the Pica kit #RC-5 is the twisted one, the early-early-kits and early-kits were Platt credited, at Zero-zero. The middle-era-kit RC-5 was the first twisted version, I don't know where the late-late-late-late-laser kits are set.

As I said I'm waiting for the Mk II, I'll proceed according to Platt's latest word.

WR

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Me again, folks.

Just got my new Twin-Air 40, from Northeast Aerodynamics. www.ne-aero.com

It is pretty much a simplified Duellist, box fuselage instead of oval, and constant chord wings instead of tapered. Dimensions are very close, main difference is a much longer fuselage, the nacelles look longer to ease the balance problem, and it has LONGER GEAR LEGS!

In addition to simpler construction and very similar appearance, it is $60 less expensive.

If you are curious there are many references to this plane on the "What twins are on the building board" thread

Whether kit, plan, or scratch, for a twin there is no match.

Bill

PS: All angles are Zero-zero. wr

avinut

My Feedback: (2)

william

How did you go about the purchase? Did you have to do it by 'phone? I went to the site but couldn't see any way to make a web purchase. They just show some obscure dealers list.

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

AviNut:

Took me a web search, an Email, and a phone call. But after that, it got here FAST! Ordered on the 20th, and opened the box on the 23rd. And no bull about 2nd day air, this was ordinary parcel post. John charged me $15 for shipping, actual USPS charge was $14.65. I don't expect any change to be returned. My total cost was $154.95 - including tax the Duellist is $211.95 in the LHS. And the Twin-Air is a simpler build.

I have a Duellist under construction, when it and the T-A are flying I'll decide which the next one should be, or If I'll return to scratch build for the next. It would be hard to have one fly better than my last scratch twin, but its looks are a little boxy with the Hershey bar wing, but the T-A is a straight plank too. We'll see.

BUT this isn't telling you how to get one.

Web site, Northeast aerodynamics: www.ne-aero.com
Email: [email protected]
Phone: John Marien ((603) 465-6508

I completed the order by phone.

And I destroyed a four month old airplane this afternoon.

To New Hampshire cross the border, when this twin you will order.

Bill

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

AviNut and any who tried Email to Northeast Aerodynamics using the above URL:

NE Aero url was correct, but if you used the Email address as originally posted your mail will come back undeliverable. I misspelled it. It is now correct, try again, it'll go.

Email: [email protected]

Sorry.

NEA Twin address, was illiterate. Try now, you'll get-to-it

Bill

ChuckAuger

My Feedback: (12)

Don't move where the retracts mount in the wing, just move the wheel well inboard. Instead of the wheel well between W-2/W-3, make the axle center over W-2. This way you can get more clearance without moving the gear mounts.

As for all the other mods, I'd suggest using the plans and instruction book that comes with the kit. If you do, you will be rewarded with a very fine flying plane.

avinut

My Feedback: (2)

THANKS William

crashnfix

My Feedback: (1)

Got a price from NE-Aero for the Twin-Air of $140.00 plus $15.00 shipping, total of $165.00. Sheldons sells the Duellist for $114.00 plus $8.00 shipping for a total of $122.00. Tell me, since they seem to be quite similar, what would be the advantage of spending the extra $43.00? Keeping in mind, of course that it would be my first twin, and I'm not that great a builder.

John

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Crashfix:

Welcome to the argument. But please recheck your numbers - difference is $33 - you added an extra 10 to the Twin-Air.

Sheldon's is really $120 delivered for the Duellist? That's below dealer's cost from Pica. It makes me think what they are selling is the earlier version kit, before the laser cuting began. But they could have struck a deal with Pica and it is the laser cut, latest, kit

While neither is a beginner's plane, either in flying or the construction, I have both right here, and neither has been started in construction, here are my thoughts.

Twin-Air. Simple construction, box fuselage, wing builds flat on the board. The wing is built with open bays outboard of the nacelles, requires covering but retains lightness. The nacelles are built into the wing, not just glued to the skin. Entire airplane looks hard to build badly, just about guaranteed good strong structure. But there is a lot more carving and sanding than on the Duellist. The instruction booklet directions are somewhat obscure, interpretaion almost requires knowing what he wants before he broaches the subject. I think it would almost be easier to build using the plans only, without the book. But it does have some good tips in it.

Duellist. Complex construction. The fuselage requires the formers to be secured to the building board, a few stringers added, then start sheeting. Builds into a beautiful fuselage with an oval cross section, very strong. But careless or slapdash methods will leave you with, at best, a warped assembly, at worst it will be both warped and weak. The wing cannot be built flat on the board, it uses a shimming strip both to support the after portion of the ribs and to build in the "Washout" of the structure. The leading and trailing edges have to be glued to the ribs without any support, unless you build up small stands, and every one will have to be different since the washout gives the wing panel a slight twist. Once the sheeting is started the wing becomes strong, but care is required up to that point - the basic structure is fragile. Somewhat like the fuselage before sheeting. The entire airplane is sheeted, it could be finished with paint only. The instruction book is superb, if followed carefully the airplane could be built well by a person without a lot of previous experience.

Flying. I have neither flown, nor even seen a completed Twin-Air. The Duellist is like an old faithful friend. But my impression is that anyone WITH AEROBATIC experience could handle either one with absolutely no trouble. And looking at the two I think the Twin-Air might possibly have the edge for aerobatics. Again, to repeat, no hands on yet with the Twin-Air, but I think it would have a definite edge in ease of flight with a dead engine. Because the tail moment is 10" longer than the Duellist.

Good looks goes to the Duellist without any argument. It is not possible for the T-A's Hershey bar wing to compare with the tapered wing of the Duellist, then contrast the nice oval fuselage of the Duellist to the T-A's box, as I said - no contest. Plain Chevrolet against a Ferrari SWB 250GT. A house cat and a Bengal tiger.

So which do I pick for you? Both. Get the T-A, it will build in a fraction of the time needed for the Duellist. While you are flying the T-A, in the evenings you can be building your Ferrari.

If it has to be either-or, that $33 difference will go a long way toward buying all the other needed bits, tanks, wheels, etc. But the T-A is by far the easier build. And I think it will make the better plane as a first twin.

So I suppose I pick the Twin-Air.

Hope I haven't left you with too much confusion.

But a Duellist for $120...

Duellist or Twin-Air, what a deal, buy the pair.

Bill

crashnfix

My Feedback: (1)

Bill

Excellent analysis. Armed with all that information, I was able to make a decision. It will be either the T-A or the Duellist.

I do like your suggestion though, to start with the easier building T-A. Then with any luck, it will last me 'til I get the Duellist built. That DC-3 kit I have sitting on the shelf will just have to wait for a while. Now, my next decision is whether to put my 40 FPs in the T-A and my 40 SRs in the Duellist, or vice-versa. Decisions, decisions, decisions.......

Anyway, I really want to thank all you guys in this forum for all the invaluable input.

John

Plane, $200.00. Engines, $100.00. RCU twins forum, PRICELESS!!!

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Crashnfix:

John, I may no longer be the one to ask.

On Saturday I did not live up to your postname - doing a high speed pass down the runway, inverted, 5 feet altitude, found I no longer had any down elevator. Wreckage was strewn for 100 feet. That was Crash-NO-fix.

Then on Sunday an engine that had never given me any problem whatsoever was hard to start, and then it added insult to injury by quitting where I couldn't get back to the runway. This just tore up the wheel pants, so this time it's properly Crash-n-fix. Wasn't really much of a crash, but it was two in two days.

Re engines - One of mine has AMD 0.061 engines, another has Magnum 46XLs, the Duellist is getting a pair of #40111 K&B 40s. No decision on the T-A. Had a nice pair of Rossi short pipe 46s, I let another local flier talk me out of them. The Rossi engines are a bit heavy, so I didn't mind too much. But that pair of 46 XLs are my Magnums #6 and #7, they've all been good, maybe get a pair of 60-65 four strokes - that would be something. Again, this is my impression, but I think with equal power the Duellist will be faster, but for performance other than flat out level flight the Duellist will need more power - it builds up heavier. Again, take your choice.

Twins are almost a different world - Enjoy your new life.

Twin OS, K&B, or Magnum - just be sure they both like to hum.

Bill

GeeBeer

Where can one purchase at the twin-air or just have a look at it? What company makes it? I see a post here that a place called ne-aero sells them... but i believe that is an abreviation...

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Snaught:

. John Marien
. Northeast Aerodynamics Inc.
. PO Box 1054
. Hollis, NH 03049
. (603) 465.6508

. www.ne-aero.com Company URL
. [email protected] Email to John Marien

Never been there, can't swear it's right, but it must be close enouigh since the mail(wo)man brought a Twin-Air 45 to my door.

Everything but the street address was in post #59.

Twin? In the Air. Single? Nowhere.

Bill

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

ChuckAuger:

Charles, I was just going back over the Duellist thread, in post #18 you said you knew of two that were incomplete, and might still be there.

If you would, please sir, find out if either or both are still there: I am interested. If I were to get both my twin stable would grow by 50% - from four to six.

Thanks

Be a twin go-getter, more you have the better.

Bill

tupolo

My Feedback: (2)

If anyone is looking for a Duelist kit, I have one that I'd be happy to send to a new home. I don't see it getting done by me anytime soon, so if anyone wants to shoot me an offer, I'm flexible. The kit is NIB but is aged, although everything inside looks to be good shape. I do have digital capabilities if you want some pix of the box or internals. I also have a finished wing that could go with the kit if someone were so interested.

Thanks

Danny

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Tupulo:

I want it.

But can we get together on price, etc?

More details on the built wing, please, and what happened to the fuselage that went with it?

Email heading your way.

Thanks.

Duellist with an extra wing, is a Biplane the thing?

Bill

Flyboy Dave

My Feedback: (21)

Why not a four engine bipe....stretch the fuse a bit,
and put some more tail feathers on it.

( Do you think It'll fly, Orville ? )

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Flyboy Dave:

David, I figured I could work either biplane or some variation of quad, but not both into a short couplet. I am very sorry, I'll try harder.

Make a twin a four, then the fun is more.

(Bad enough?)

Bill

crashnfix

My Feedback: (1)

Bill,

Well, I just got off the phone with John Marien. I ordered a T-A. He tells me it won't ship for about 2 weeks. It seems there have been too many orders the last few days, and he's getting backlogged. He says all the activity is coming from RCU. Shame on you guys!

John

Flyboy Dave

My Feedback: (21)

Ok, Bill....a Tri-Motor then....