Electric twin engine problem help!
 

Hello everyone,So, my brother happened upon an SF Airways-45 in a dumpster at the storage unit place he works at. It needed some minor repairs and, most of it (save but the repair needed part) was still in the bubble wrap. I finally got it all together and I'm having some engine issues. I bought 2 2250Mah batteries, one for each ESC, 2 EFlite 40 ESCs and, EFlite Delta V 480 engines to go in it. In the booklet, it shows to Y the ESCs to 1 receiver connection. I did this, after pairing the ESCs to the remote (a Futaba 6J.) My problem is, in Y connected setup, the last engine to be have it's ESC switched on will only start to turn when throttle input reaches 30-35% (I'm not sure the exact number but, it's in that range.) Both setups work perfectly on their own. When the lagging one is switched on first, the opposite happens. The lagging engine now runs when it is supposed to and, the properly functioning one lags. I was hoping they would even out at a certain point but, when practicing taxi yesterday, it kicks the aircraft to one side.I just tried to get them to work in mix mode on the controller but, had no luck. I tried plugging the lagging engine into slot 5 on the receiver, then getting it to activate with 3 (throttle) as master and 5 as slave. The only way it would come on is when I was trying to adjust it in the negative. It would come on, but as soon as the throttle was pushed up it would shut off immediately. I tried adjusting the sub trim, hoping that was the issue, but that would not fix it. I tried switching to reverse direction on that channel as well. It would only kick the engine up to high throttle. Input on the stick had no effect on it. It would only stop when the channel was put back to normal direction.Does anyone have any clues on how to get this to work? I tried calling Horizon and they told me to try the mix mode, which I just tried.

RE: Electric twin engine problem help!
 

You did remove a red wire from one of the ESC that plug into the Y I hope. If not do it. Remove it from the connector and try again.

RE: Electric twin engine problem help!
 

1) Did you check the settings on each speed controller? Read the directions for each and be sure the ESC's are set up properly and exactly the same for both.
2) Are you running a separate receiver battery for the receiver?
3) Did you disable one of the "battery eliminator circuits" from one of the speed controllers - if in fact you are not running a separate rx battery and you are in fact using one of the BEC's for RX power? (this is the red wire from the ESC - well most ESC's). You don't want both BEC's powering the receiver as when paralleled together via a Y harness the speed controller BEC's will fight each other. They can't be properly paralleled and you need to disable one or both BEC's.
4) A set of properly programmed speed controllers (via settings) should NOT behave as you describe.
5) I assume you have swapped battery packs (you say you are using two flight packs, I'm assuming one flight pack for each motor and ESC) - and your troubles are not coming from a bad battery that has not been checked...

RE: Electric twin engine problem help!
 

I've tried it with one of the red wires out on the Y. I didn't know of that at the start but, have tried it without since. The settings on the speed controllers are corrects as well. I verified again to be sure. They work properly when just 1 unit is hooked to the system.I am running 2 "sets". Battery pack > ESC > Motor. The ESCs are Y'd in to 1 receiver.The one thing I can't try is swapping battery packs. I don't have any spares to swap out with yet.

RE: Electric twin engine problem help!
 

What radio are you using and how many servos? Are you using electric retracts? Maybe its the radio itself that is causing the issue and someone may be able to help in that regard. I have a twin A26 and did not run into any trouble like that. Some times a bit more info is needed in order to pin point a trouble.
Also if you could post some pics of your set up we may notice something.

RE: Electric twin engine problem help!
 

Tried it again just to be sure with the Y adapter. Here are the pics of my setup and, a video of the error in action.</p>

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...83717641_n.jpg</p>

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...49563593_n.jpg</p>

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...33032215_n.jpg</p>

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...05333980_n.jpg</p>

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...64127759_n.jpg</p>

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...93324585_n.jpg</p>

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot...59312587_n.jpg</p>

</p>

http://youtu.be/Kk9B45rqsz0</p>

</p>

RE: Electric twin engine problem help!
 

Before you do anything else, just go back and set your end points to -125 / + 125 for throttle. You may be just on the edge of properly arming one of the speed controllers.

If no dice - You may want to try this if your radio has the ability -

Set up a spare channel as a slave to the throttle channel. Ensure that your servo reverse and end points are set up properly for both channels.

Plug one of your ESC's into the spare channel. Mix and match if it still acts up and see if you can isolate one ESC, channel or battery to the behavior. While you are at it insulate that spare BEC wire so it won't short on anything. It's live voltage.

RE: Electric twin engine problem help!
 

Both are definitely armed.  They work fine when I have them isolated, with only 1 hooked up.</p>

</p>

I tried playing with the throttle mixing on Ch5 as slave but, couldn't get it to work properly.  I tried it with copilot on 3.  Then, when that didn't work, I tried copilot on the slave channel.  Still couldn't get it to work.  The only way it would respond is if I reversed the flow on the channel.  It would then throttle up.  I think it was 50% power but, I have no way to be sure.  It would also do the same if I flipped the gear/servo channel, to simulate the gear going up.</p>

</p>

The only response it would take in relation to master channel was odd as well.  If the slave channel was active, if I engaged the throttle, the engine would cut out.  It would then come back on when I put the throttle stick to 0.  I'll redo it later on and take video of it again.</p>

RE: Electric twin engine problem help!
 

You are just going to have to keep trying to isolate the fault.

Take one of the ESC's out of the loop entirely. Plug your "suspect" ESC into the throttle channel and try normal ops with a prop attached. If it misbehaves you have a defective ESC, or a bad motor possibly and this is assuming you have "GOOD SOLDER JOINTS". I haven;t mentioned solder joints but a "cold solder" joint will give you all sorts of problems, many weird and hard to track down. Swap motors with ESC's if you have plugs, it may isolate a bad solder joint on a motor or ESC.

If you can verify solder joints and you isolate one ESC where it acts normally alone but will not operate well int he system then you likely have a bad Y lead. Bad servo extentions and Y leads are as common and a cold in January. If it acts normally still try the other one on the exact same circumstances but using it's own battery just to make sure you are looking at everything.

You may have an ESC or a Y lead that will work on it's own but is just to the side of tolerances that it will not work together. I have a twin that is using cheap Hobby King garbage speed controllers, motors and Y leads. It was at times starting up with both motors normally and then on occasion starting up only one motor. The only thing I could attribute it to after exhaustive testing is that one of the ESC's was operating fine alone but in combination with other cheap pieces of equipment it was acting up. Changed out the ESC and it was good. Even name brand equipment is at times cheapo depot stuff. Not all name brand, but some name brand. It could be that one of your ESC's will not play well in a total system even if it works solo.

Take notes as you work so you can make sure you've checked things off the list.

Cold Solder joints:
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=444908

Basic solder review:
http://www.howtogeek.com/63630/how-t...ginners-guide/

RE: Electric twin engine problem help!
 

True all of the above. I would also suggest using different ESCs. I found sometimes the cheap ESCs in the yellow shrink wrap works better than some brand names. I had issues with a Thunder Tiger 40Amp ESC on a small motor. Pass half throttle the motor would sputter. Changed to a cheap 30AMP in yellow wrap , problem gone. I never had problems with any of the yellow ESCs. Give a pair a try you might be surprised. Also there are Dynam, Gen Ace and Hobbywing at Hobbypartz.com. I use the Dynams in my twin.

RE: Electric twin engine problem help!
 

Well, I think my problem is that of a battery kind.  I just charge checked both batteries, which I've been having constant problems with.  One battery, now has a dead cell.  The other, shows charge and will arm both ESCs but, won't charge through the balance port.  I've only ever gotten the batteries to charge through the balance port once.  That was 1 battery also, one of them has never charged through the balance port.  I've been using the NiCd setting to put charge on them, which I've done 3 times on both so far.  Both batteries show their charge on the balance plug on my charger though.</p>

</p>

When I tried the engines and ESCs just now, I eliminated all the joints that I soldered.  Except for the plugs on the non balancer port of the battery packs, (the red and black ones.)  When I can get the motivation to run downtown, then I'm going to take the setup down to Hobby Town and see if it is indeed the battery packs that are causing the issue.  I'm also going to make sure my charger is working properly, again isolating just the batteries.</p>

RE: Electric twin engine problem help!
 

Ok now are you saying your batteries were never fully charged or charged properly with a Lipo charger?

RE: Electric twin engine problem help!
 

I thought I had mentioned that in my original post, sorry.</p>

</p>

Yes, both batteries haven't worked properly out of the box.  I wasn't sure if it was the charger or the batteries though.  1 of them charged on the balancer once but, that was it.  They do read on the balancer though for some reason.  I did get a full charge on both of them twice (verified on the balancer.)  I used the NiCd setting and, the red/black connector to charge them.  I set it to 1 amp, and charged it in multiple short (about 10 min) sessions until it was fully charged.</p>

Now, 1 of them has a dead cell according to the balancer reading.  It won't arm the ESCs anymore either.  It won't even give the beeping sound to say that it is even hooked to the ESC and engines.  The other works in the system but, again, won't charge on the balancer.  I tried it on both sets, got it to pair with the remote and got the engine to gen up.  I can't try both of at the same time now though.</p>

RE: Electric twin engine problem help!
 

First you should not be charging LiPOs with the Nicad setting. That is a no no and your pack will never be charged properly, plus you can cause a fire. Why are you not charging with the Lipo setting. What charger do you have?

RE: Electric twin engine problem help!
 

It won't charge through the LiPo port, save but that 1 time for the 1 battery.  I have a Radient Ascend charger (http://www.hobbytown.com/Shop/Radien...rface-Charger/).  The one I have for my TMaxx is 6 years old, so I couldn't use it for the LiPos.  I read online that if they won't charge through the LiPo balance port, then you can sometime charge it through NiCd to get it to "come back" and charge on the balance port.  I tried that on the 1 battery that charged on balance once.  I ran it for 5 mins on 1amp NiCd, then it charged through the balance port.  The other one I tried the same with but, it would never charge on the port.  I tried multiple times to get it to go on the balance port before I attempted that though.  I thought it might be the connectors on the charger or, just a crap charger.  I couldn't get it to work no matter what I tried.  It was after trying for about 45 mins to figure out the problem that I googled the problem.  I came across multiple places that said try the NiCd method.  I stopped the charge on both batteries, when all cells read 4.10.  Which is what it read on the 1 battery when it worked on the balance port, after the charger said it was complete on 2.2a setting.

RE: Electric twin engine problem help!
 

Also, the batteries read 3.7 to 3.8 on the cells when I got them.  That was before the initial attempt to charge and, before I had even put the blue end on them.

RE: Electric twin engine problem help!
 

I hope you did not mess up the batteries by charging them the way you did. You may need to get a better Lipo charger. Not sure why your charger is not charging via the lipo settings. I think you may be doing something wrong, How ever for now I think until you get to your Hobby shop to test both batteries and esc do not continue to charge the way you are. If the batteries are not shot by now they will be if you continue.

RE: Electric twin engine problem help!
 

Yes. Go to the hobby shop and get an in person run through and tutorial on batteries. You will catch your house on fire if you don't follow the basic rules of lipo charging.

Also, I would recommend teaming up with another electric RC guy so you will get the basics ironed out. The forums are OK to get details straightened out but if you have a lot of stuff that is not set up correctly to begin with the forums are going to be very frustrating. You can learn the basics much faster by having a guy run through it with you in person a few times.