Seeking a Douglas A-26 Invader Builder
 

Anyone interested in building me a scale A-26 invader???

The net of what I want is a scale Invader with retracts, working bomb bay if possible, with specific colors on finish coat. I will want a quality job that looks authentic and the aircraft must be flyable upon delivery, so be prepared to test fly it if you take on this project. Also be prepared to supply pictures of other jobs, references, etc. I want a first class job.

There is an A-26 picture in the bomber section of rcwarbirds.com that is basically what I am looking for.

I will be up front and tell everyone that I do not want to pay for basic materials or labor to build this airplane. I will discuss supplying some items but want the builder to provide most of the items required. If your interested in doing this project I am willing to discuss a ride in the jump seat of a real WWII A-26 Invader in exchange for this work.

Contact me if your capable and interested in discussing this project.

RE: Seeking a Douglas A-26 Invader Builder
 

.................I will want a quality job that looks authentic............................

Well, I'm not the builder you're looking for, but as far as the comment you made above, I haven't seen many A-26's that the wing looked scale on, except the one from the site below. I built that one, the the wing is closer to the scale thing than any I've seen. If you want the original A-26 type, some modifications would have to be made on the plans below. The vertical stab on the B-26K/A-26A was larger than the unmodified versions. Shouldn't be a big deal to change. The design below flies good, despite a heavy wing loading. Mine came in at 52oz. sq.ft and still flew good, despite my shortcomings in the other aspects of building/trimming. The reason I'm using past tense is that I lost an engine immediately after rotation on the 3rd flight. Not much you can do 6' off the ground and at full take off power. Anyway, just a suggestion.
Randy
http://www.scalercmodels.com/index.h...com/index.html

RE: Seeking a Douglas A-26 Invader Builder
 

You are talking about several thousand $ in materials and 6 months work. That better be some ride!

Jim

RE: Seeking a Douglas A-26 Invader Builder
 

Maybe you missed the part about me supplying some of the items. If I supplied the electronics, engines, retracts, etc, I see no way it would cost $1000 for someone to do this, 6 months of time maybe, but for someone who enjoys building these models and is skilled at it, the chance to ride in a real A-26 could be the oppurtunity of a life time for this project.

What I said was I did not want to pay for the build, and maybe I was not clear that I am willing to provide some of the more expensive things to off set the cost to the builder, but I am not going to pay for the labor and basic supplies like wood, glue, and covering, etc.

We both know people all over the place build models for others everyday for much less oppurtunity than this!

Doug

RE: Seeking a Douglas A-26 Invader Builder
 

LL......I'm not sure what scale you are speaking of......say 103" WS....like a Don Smith plans A-26....which I have......your idea being a noble one......probably is lopsided......I'm not sure how much one would have to pay for a ride in an A-26.....I would rather pay $1000 for the ride than build an A-26..........To do a scale rendition with bomb bays and the like ...is minimum 500 hrs.......Talked to Greg Hahn several yrs ago about how much time he spent on a project and minimum was 500 hrs............Its hard to get paid for spending all the time it takes to do a "Scale Project".........but thats why I and other guys rarely do projects for others.....most won't pay for what work is needed to complete a turnkey Warbird scale airplane.......going from a single eng. WWII warbird to a multi-engine warbird is a substantial difference in manhours.......Good Luck .....Someone out there might be willing to do it though.......Bill.......

RE: Seeking a Douglas A-26 Invader Builder
 

LL:

The people with the skill to build what you want know what their time is worth.

I wish you good fortune in your search, but I also see your chance of success about the same as the proverbial moth in hell.

Bill.

RE: Seeking a Douglas A-26 Invader Builder
 

Hi

I would be happy to build your project with one exception, I charge a cheap 15.00 per hour, this must be paid on a weekly basis. Any materials, paint, electricity, storage, pictures, etc. would be extra.

Two kits and plans, to be provided by you one to build for you and one for me to keep.

I would also retain any/full exclusive rights to any magazine article published or that I would publish in the furture.

Let me know if you would like me to start, I have an opening starting in December.

Regards
JR

P.S.<<<<<<<<<<>&g t;>>>>>>>>

Installing radio, engines, servos, retracts and design work or redesign of plans or equipment is extra.
Test flying of completed aircraft is extra.
Shipping, crating and or delivery are extra and billed on a cost/time/labor charge.
Any modification made by you during or after starting will be billed at twice the quoted labor rate.

This is a great offer as I am retiring and building any aircraft today models or real aircraft is disappearing as are other laborious work or crafts, craftsman are really becoming extinct.

There is one alternative you may want to check on as the third world countries are looking for work and the labor is cheaper. They would probably like a ride in a aircraft that bombed them during the war.

RE: Seeking a Douglas A-26 Invader Builder
 

Gentlemen...

Lets please keep this civil.. Ladyliberty stated what they were after and what they
would offer in return..
A simple accept / decline is ok, but please , lets keep the judgements of what
ladyliberty wishes to barter to ourselves...

Thank you,,
Your friendly MODERATOR

Robby

RE: Seeking a Douglas A-26 Invader Builder
 

Robby......Lets also keep in mind what the value of what he is asking for is actually worth......Are you willing to build a "Scaled out" A-26.....just for a ride?...........personally.....can't see how that would be fair to anyone..............nothing wrong with asking for a project to be built........but those in the hobby know what a tedious challenge this project can be.....I've built 2 Ziroli B-25's and they consumed many manhours....many other guys out there have done lots more than I have for sure........In my opinion....the guy wants something for almost nothing in return...........lets try to be fair here.......let the other voices be heard.................might sound somewhat calous...........but maybe this person doesn't uderstand what it is he's asking for..............realistically......lets assume its a Don Smith ...................103" WS.... A-26.....thats probably $5000 in labor ...alone!!.....500 manhours is only $10/hr......A gentleman offered $15/hr........do the MATH...........I'm in the hobby for enjoyment and fun.......there's also people willing to build for others.....Doug asked.....let him get the feedback..........Bill........

RE: Seeking a Douglas A-26 Invader Builder
 

If anyone wants a Ride in a Real A-26 Invader go to Waco TX...I bet 500 cash gets you a ride....

Lady Liberty....I know of an A-26 for sale that did place very well in a Scale Meet a few years ago...It has the wingtip tanks A-26K and is done up in the Camo Vietnam Scheme,,, 13 ft wingspan and is airworthy...has pilots, bomb bay and you will need a trailer to haul this beauty around...Cost will be about 3500 dollars..I know the gentlman who owns and hangars it in his fullsize hangar next to his Piper... let me know...

RE: Seeking a Douglas A-26 Invader Builder
 

Warbirdz01 ,,
I do fully understand about the time to build what he wants..

I don't mind someone telling him he may be unreasonable in his request..

What we would prefer not to see are things that could come across as putting the
person down for just asking..

Believe me, I read the post when it first appeared.. Where I am probably capable of
doing what he wants, *I* could not think of a nice way to put it, so elected to not post,
rather than say something that could come across as out of line...

So I am just suggesting, rather than putting the person down in any way, to better
educate the person that to build what he wants is a major undertaking and it
is doubtful anyone would wish to take it on for what they are offering to give for having
it done..

Thanks, :)

Robby

RE: Seeking a Douglas A-26 Invader Builder
 

All:

Who??? Where?

That was an offer?

I half way thought the original post was intended to be a joke.

You? Friendly? I've known you too long to believe that.

Haw.

But Robby's right, folks. LL Doug has made an offer, and we should allow him the kindness of not making fun of either Doug or the offer.

Bill.

RE: Seeking a Douglas A-26 Invader Builder
 

Hi Robby

I hope I can shed some light on this Barter you brought up without splashing any water on it .so to speak..

I concur as though there is more here than meets the eye ( Human nature - DNA ) ...............

There is a real tax issue here if the IRS finds out, if this statement of Ladyliberty is accepted as a written/agreed upon by itself. It than becomes a taxed event as it involves labor and or unreported income as defined by the IRS code 861, and partly Section 26.

Its called barter and the IRS wants it's due no free ride here. If you add in the aviation aspect of it, it gets out of my league of understanding of the governing Tax Law(s) regarding aviation.

Can anyone else shed some light in this area

Regards
JR

RE: Seeking a Douglas A-26 Invader Builder
 

Hi

This price sound good even if you have to refinish it, though this falls short of the exact specification they requested.

" Cost will be about 3500 dollars.."

Still 3500.00 divided by 600 man hours ( estimate only ) = 5.38 per hour.
What does it include or exclude??


What is the basic cost of this project and maybe we can get things straightened out in peoples minds as to real cost of this project. I this what LadyLiberty says the builder should supply?

These prices are approximate only

Plans 70.00
Kit 500.00
Cowls 150.00
Spinners 50.00
Props 60.00
Retracts 550.00
Wheels 120.00
Balsa 150.00
Ply 50.00
Push rods 50.00
Servos 250.00
Covering material 100.00
Resin 100.00
Pilots 50.00
Interior 150.00
Paint/ finishing 350.00
Markings/decals 70.00
Hinges 35.00
Glue – types? 25.00
Support material – sanding
material/disks blades etc. 50.00
Engines – size = cost G-38 800.00
Documentation 40.00
Brakes 200.00
Modifications to prints – Engineer /drawings – cad –corel –time spent -unknown

Labor – estimate at 600 hours for everything ( estimate Only x 15.00 ) =
$ 9000.00

Total about - give or take somethings are cheaper some more = 4000.00 + 9000.00 +
anything I have missed.

Have I missed anything
Thanks
JR

RE: Seeking a Douglas A-26 Invader Builder
 

===================
I don't suppose there are pictures of the bird mentioned above, are there? I'd just like to see the thing.
Randy (former B-26K/A-26A gun plumber)

RE: Seeking a Douglas A-26 Invader Builder
 

if you go to the BOmber Field website.. they have changed it numerous times...Look at the Warbird Pictures..
www.bomberfieldusa.com

RE: Seeking a Douglas A-26 Invader Builder
 

Sorry,,they removed the pics from earlier years..I'll see if I can scan a picture of it and post it...It is HUGE!!!! Let me know if ya'll are interested in buying it...should be around 3500 for the airframe w/retracts.and motors..Twin G-62's or something like that....Let me know if someone is seriously interested about acquiring such a LARGE and expensive twin...

RE: Seeking a Douglas A-26 Invader Builder
 

Well personally I have learned a lot here and have to say I agree with Robby. If you don't want to discuss this project in a positive way, or have something informative to say like warbirdz01's first post then you should simply not reply. Feedback is fine, but making fun of an offer you have not even discussed is really unwarranted.

The post I made was to see if anyone was interested in DISCUSSING this project with some BASIC expectations laid out. I NEVER said I would not supply parts and materials, and that I would not discuss the project at length with a builder so they could lay out the requirements they had. What I was looking for was to see if someone was willing to donate the labor and normal building supplies for the project while I supplied some of the most expensive parts & materials, which maybe was not laid out clearly enough for everyone here because I make no secret that I do not know what parts and materials will be needed. The point to the entire thing was to start a proactive discussion where the outcome of the project is negotiated or abandoned based on both sides expectations, requirements, and concessions. If it takes 600 hours and you did not want to donate that much labor then that could have been part of the discussion, as could any of the items you as the builder wanted me to cover the cost of.

BentBalsa made the only legitimate offer, but obviously most of you can determine I am not going to pay someone $10,000+ in labor alone to build a model. If thats the best offer out there than that is fine, I can deceide to discuss it more in depth with BentBalsa if I want, without saying how unreasonalbe something he offered might be. But then he proceeded to ramble about tax rules that I really do not believe he understands.

Its pretty obvious no one here even wants to truly discuss this project, as everyone seems to be so negative and say what I am offering is nothing, which is completely unture even from my first post. It amazes me that none of you have even begun to discuss what I am willing to supply to the project, or find out any information about what I might be willing to offer regarding the ride or concessions I might make to get what I want, its basically all negative info which is not the way to impress someone from outside the RC community like myself.

I actually believed someone would be willing to ASSIST us in building this keepsake, enjoy a ride in the real thing and maybe even join our group with the aircraft, not to mention the tax breaks available for donating the finished product to us. Maybe I was wrong and misjudged the RC community in the forums, as what I have seen so far has really turned me off from the project, even if I was in the end willing to pay for 100% of the time and 100% of the materials.

RE: Seeking a Douglas A-26 Invader Builder
 

Read your original post. It did not mention the words "we" or "donate" or "group" It did mention "I". When I read the post I thought it was a joke. With the limited info provided it looked you wanted the plane for yourself.

RE: Seeking a Douglas A-26 Invader Builder
 

Doug:

My first post (number six in this thread) was not intended to poke fun at either you or your proposal, but rather to give you my opinion of the probability of your reaching agreement with anyone, given your initial parameters.

I do apologise for making fun of your proposition in my later post, number 12, but rather than making fun of you I was kidding Robby. I am sorry you took offense at it.

Down at the level of the "Brass Tacks," these little scale airplanes are every bit as expensive as the average home built passenger carrying plane on a pound for pound basis, and many are more expensive. The skills needed are also on a par.

I just assumed you were more familiar with our smaller planes than you (now) obviously are, and I'm sure your know how the word ass|u|me breaks down, but in this case we will definitely leave the "U" out of it, I'm the one who did it with no help from or blame on you.

Again, I apologise.

Perhaps we can start over?

Bill.

RE: Seeking a Douglas A-26 Invader Builder
 

Doug......If I may .....read your very first post......to paraphrase..........".I won't provide basic materials or labor.........builder to provide most items required................also test flown and ready to deliver"........thats what got everyones attention......your statements suggested you wanted something for nothing........which in our hobby can be done for charity things ......or as a donation to a warbird museum.....or the like..............If you wanted to "Negotiate" a deal with a builder in Hobbyland.......you should have said so................maybe you might want to start over and put down something reasonable.........as it sounds like you want to do................that way.....you can get something reasonable in return..........there's nothing personal here.......its a fun hobby.........Bill........

RE: Seeking a Douglas A-26 Invader Builder
 

This entire thing has turning into a REAL joke, and as I said last night has really turned me off to everyone in this forum so far. Willliam I do accept your apology and understand what you said and were doing in your posts.

And your right warbirdz I did say that, but mabye you missed the part that says "I will discuss supplying some items" which I must point out is directly before and connected in the same sentence to the "but want the builder to provide most of the items required" you quoted

I also ended with a simple "Contact me if your capable and interested in discussing this project".

Your first post warbirdz was very informative to me, but now your playing word games by taking pieces of a single statement from a post and paraphrasing it into something its not.

RE: Seeking a Douglas A-26 Invader Builder
 

LL:

Your first post managed to insult the people you were trying to attract by implying that the labor (and "most" materials) to build a scaled out A-26 is worth a $300 plane ride. The responses you got were a natural reaction.

Let me also correct you on the "donation" option. Donated non-professional labor is not tax deductable regardless of your organization's tax status.

Setting all that aside, your best bet, by far, would be to purchase an existing model that fits your requirements. $3500 is a small fraction of what you will pay for a custom built model.

Jim

RE: Seeking a Douglas A-26 Invader Builder
 

All I can say is you guys are an easy bunch to insult if asking someone if they want to build us a model in exchange for a ride and me supplying some parts etc.

Like I said, this has turned into a complete joke and is completely turning me off the RC crowd altogether.

I put in the first post that I was willing to discuss supplying stuff to this project, and was looking for someone to donate time and BASIC building materials. Since no one seems to be willing to find out WHAT I am willing to supply I am outta here. You guys can continue to make fun of my post, the wording in it, or whatever you want to do.

I made no bones about paying for items to complete this project and was completely willing to discuss a fee for building this model if completly donated labor was to much to ask. But it would have taken a discussion for any of you to determine that, and it seems time and time again people want to say I am offering nothing.

Even now JRF is saying I am asking someone to donate the labor for a $300 ride. Well JRF clearly you are not involved in aviation as I doubt you have any idea what it takes financially to operate even a Cessna 172 today, or you would not think this ride in a WWII bomber is worth $300.

Since no one here wants to even begin to discuss doing this project I will take my search elsewere. Just a note to consider next time someone asks something like this is to remember that if I can afford to be a pilot on, and play with a real A-26, I can probably afford to have any RC aircraft I want built. Like someone said earlier, you do the math, so next time someone should get into a discussion before jumping to conclusions.

The simple truth is I have a real A-26 to fly and I will obtain the model I want even if I have to pay for it out of my pocket, it just clearly won't be from anyone in here.

RE: Seeking a Douglas A-26 Invader Builder
 

Doug......I have been working as an Aircraft Mechanic since I was 17 yrs old......I also have been flying since about that same time......I have worked on Connies.....DC-3's up to DC-10's......B-377 Stratocruisers to B747's........."Round Motors" to "Jets"........been around aviation all my life.........I am not alone here.....so has many people associated with this hobby......I know Bill Robison has flown many- many airplanes......We even worked for the same Airline......Piedmont. Airlines...............Worked on many-many R-2800's.........same thing that powers your A-26..............Doug......I'm all ears.....We have a warbird group that flies all heavy-metal.........I'm giving you the opportunity to spell out exactly what it is you want .......Size of model A-26 you want.?......what engines would you like?......How about a Cactus Aviation A-26.......120" WS?.........A guy in our group is finishing one now.............Type of radio gear you prefer?.........Give me some info so I can possibly find what it is your looking for...........we're easy here........I happen to find the A-26 a very appealing airplane.....one located right up the street from here...........Bill.....