jtspin

Hmm... that's good to know. Believe me, I researched the 22E Tx/Rx to death. Even broke out my oscilloscope. The issue is with the digital info (switch settings) that gets sent after the servo channels. Without the digital info, the 4-in-1 won't arm. It's probably a good thing since all the intelligence is in the 22E 4-in-1. For example, the idle up setting is transmitted to the 4-in-1 which handles changing the pitch/throttle curves.

Anyone know if the 4#3 will work with any other Tx?

-JT

HeliSmith

It's so funny that you mentioned this as I had the exact same problem and I remembered that a couple of days ago when I was testing my gyro settings on a new heli. I always run training gear on a new tail setup. Well I was hovering like 6" off the ground and I am popping the tail left 90°, right 90° to check for wag plus to see if it would involuntary piro and it came back to me. I swear for a split second I couldn't fly right side in. Here I am at 1 foot off the ground, 3000 headspeed no less and I am unsure for a good second. It's so totally in your head and that proved it to me.

I got past this by swooping left and right in a large open area with the heli, more of a 45° angle and doing lazy figure 8's and side in for hours in the sim. I am not even sure when I stopped noticing I was weaker to one side. lol Now I am confident in all orientations even inverted.

AtomicFlyer

Thanks for that tip HeliSmith. I hope it warms up around here soon so I can actually fly in some open space. Practicing these side-in hovers in my living room is a little nerve racking!

I'm glad your story above didn't end with "...and I crashed into a brick wall".

It's good to hear from others that got past the same obstacles that are before me. At least I know it's possible that I'll be able to comfortably hover side-in sometime in the future.

Marc

AtomicFlyer

I was curious so I timed the hover time I get out of a fully charged stock 650 mAh NiMH battery. The flight was in my living room at 7400 ft. elevation.

I hovered for 6 minutes straight until I was down in ground effects. I was able to hover another 30 seconds on the same battery pack once I let things cool down. That's actually quite a bit more than I estimated originally. I guess time seems to go a lot quicker when I'm flying.

For anybody just learning to hover out there, it can be done! It took me 10 to 12 evenings of flying about 4 battery packs each evening (and $40 worth of broken parts) to be able to hover tail-in comfortably through an entire battery pack. Now, if I'll ever be able to side-in hover comfortably remains to be seen.

Marc

five-string

Ah, the learning curve. Seems to go on forever. I am able to tail-in hover maybe 1 minute at a time now and anxiously await the time that I can confidently do laps around the flying field, high speed banks, etc. But we must walk before we run.

I liked the idea someone posted about finding some tall weeds to fly over. I might go scouting tomorrow to find just that place. Then, caution to the wind! Only, no wind. please.

Does everyone else have the same crystal set I do, 72.870? Just curious.

HeliSmith

You will soon be struggling with nose in before you know it. Then circles. Then you will say if I could only fly backwards, which has this weird effect guys... When you come from a nose in backwards flight patern around to tail in you suddenly forget how to tail in, it takes mind muscle to just switch back to tail in! You will see what I mean. If you can hover tail in you can fly. The rest is just practice. Start having fun and stop being so hard on yourselves. This is about having fun. Give yourself some credit for what you have learned.

Want some real advice. Do these on this on the sim I didn't start these excercises until I was up to nose in and Bert Magbuna passed this on to me I was having an awful time. Don't just learn tail in. Once you are tail in climb, then move it to the right while still tail in, bring it down still tail in, move it to the left still tail in to back where you started. Making a box. Keep doing that. Now do it the other way. Now move away and over to the right and back toward you, then over left to where you started all tail in. See what I mean? Now move to side-in and learn it. Now make the boxes. Take baby steps and learn it good. Then go try each on your heli as you learn them.

P.S. It takes a lot of sim time and then 2 weeks of solid training later or so you just start to get it. Then 2 weeks later it is second nature. Then next thing you go to learn may only take one week. Then the nose in may take you two months. It varies from pilot to pilot. It is all stick time though and nothing else.

AtomicFlyer

I've read about that "box" training. I just got an A/C transformer for my transmitter so I can fly the SIM without burning up so many batteries.

And thanks for the encouragement. I'm convinced that what you say is right....it's all stick time and nothing else.

Here's a hover (well, more of a floating-around-the-living-room) I did tonight. Part of my own video flight log so when I get to your skill level, I can look back and laugh!

[link]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qs2KI163_Cc[/link]

And yes, it is fun!

Marc

HeliSmith

Nice flying and nice save when you almost hit the couch. Nice and calm.

five-string

Yes, good job, Atomic. You're hovering better than me. I would have ended up in the fireplace.

I had not heard of the 'box' training. I will work on that.

billmay

My Feedback: (1)

Marc, what a great video. The intensity of your concentration is quite apparent. I have a Falcon 40 so I usually post in that thread but I also follow this one with great interest. As a newbie that is having great difficulty in learning to hover, I know it can take a great deal of practice. While it's interesting to see these videos showing how well controlled a hover can be, I would also find it quite helpful to understand the frequency and intensity of the stick movements that you were making to achieve that control. I know it might be boring for some, but is anyone willing to make a short video (15-30 seconds) that shows a close view of their hands on the TX while they're hovering. I think it would provide great insight to those of us who are novices on the amount of input that is needed to keep one of these helis under control.

Thanks to everyone who contributes for all your helpful information.

Bill

GTX SlotCar

As I recall (from a long time ago), I only got 5 1/2 to 6 minutes out of my stock NiMH pack. I'm at about 26 ft. elevation. With the weight of those packs and their low 650 mAh rating, it sounds about normal.

AtomicFlyer

I'd like to see that video too Bill. I don't dare take my eyes off the birdie so I'm not sure what my fingers are doing. I'll make a video like that in the next couple days and get it posted. Thanks for the suggestion.

Marc

billmay

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks Marc, it would be much appreciated.

Bill

Smitty09056

That would be great. Please post this video. I have never been an RC Enthusiast. I have trouble controling my son's RC Bigfoot (Bought from KB Toys) that moves at about .01 MPH. I know its like jumping from an airplane and then figuring out the Parachute on the way down. I have no Idea what possessed me to buy an RC Heli but I am confident in my abilities to learn and I love a good Challenge. I definitely underestimated this challenge. I look to you for guidance oh wise one. Help[&o]

Robert

AtomicFlyer

Here's a 30 second video showing my transmitter stick movement during a hover (and not a very pretty hover at that!). I'm a novice so this is not meant for instruction. But you may find it interesting to compare if you are also a novice.

[link]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJr7Go5hUHY[/link]

Marc

billmay

My Feedback: (1)

Marc, thanks very much for posting this. Fascinating! No wonder I'm having so much trouble hovering! I'm sure that I have a tendency to move the stick and then wait to see what happens (which usually means that it is then too late!). I suspected that it would probably take constant input to keep the bird in one place. Seeing how you were constantly moving the stick in relatively small corrections certainly gives me a new perspective on this. I'm sure that this will be helpful to everyone who is new at this. It was also great that you were able to get the heli in the field of view as well.

Thanks again for posting this. It is just what I was looking for!

Bill

jtspin

Marc,

Not bad! I'd suggest you give the "pinch" method a try (pinch the Tx sticks between your thumb and forefinger). I started using thumbs as you do, but I found I could be more precise using thumb and forefinger. It took a little while to get used to, but I definitely think it gives me more control.

-JT

billmay

My Feedback: (1)

Marc, just a follow up question on your video. Are your servo connecting rods connected to the servo arms at the stock position (the outermost hole in the arms) or have you moved them toward the center of the arms (as is often suggested for beginners)?

Thanks again for the informative video.

Bill

AtomicFlyer

I'll have to try the pinch method on my simulator. Thumbs seem more natural for me, but I'm willing to try anything.

Marc

AtomicFlyer

Bill,
I left the connecting rods at the outermost hole (the stock position). I know it makes it more twitchy which is not good for a novice like me, but I think it also helped me avoid some collision with furniture by providing quicker response.

Marc

billmay

My Feedback: (1)

OK, just trying to develop a visual concept of the amount of input required for a given setup. Thanks again. You've been very helpful and I appreciate the effort to make the video.

Bill

five-string

I made some major progress today in my hovering abilities. I was in my garage and was doing pretty well when I hit a rotor on the floor and snapped the end off. I have been reading all the posts on the 34mm rotor mod and decided to try it, jut to see for myself.

I trimmed down a new set of blades to 34mm and put them on. WOW! I went from trying to hover in a 25' x 32' garage space without hitting anything to holding a hover for 5-6 minutes at a time and moving the heli around the space and putting or keeping it wherever I want to. I'm still at the tail-in level and I could have stayed up longer than 5-6 minutes but I was trying some slow movements around the area and would loose orientation and land. I didn't break any parts or even have any rough landings since installing the trimmed rotors.

I DO use more throttle to get airborn but I didn't notice shorter flights. Actually it seemed longer because I wasn't starting and stopping to pick the heli up and start over.

I trimmed two more sets of rotors to keep as spares when I eventually break some. I have moved my control arms in one hole and I am flying 2S 1350mA batteries and SuperSkids. Otherwise, all stock.

billmay

My Feedback: (1)

Sounds pretty amazing!! I've seen the mod where you trim a small amount from almost the entire length of the trailing edge of the blades but not this one which changes the shape of the blades (and looks easier to do).

Please keep us posted on how this continues to work for you.

Bill

broggyr

What did you use to cut the blades?

HeliSmith

AtomicFlyer,

I also urge you to pick a choice pinch or thumb. I have friends who pinch one stick and thumb the other. Jason Chow, who is an awesome pilot, pinches throttle and uses his thumb for cyclic. I think the way you are laying your index finger over the throttle stick will translate badly when you move to CP.

I reserve the right to be wrong though as your quick improvement definately speaks for itself.