soneebee

Sorry about the motor Cepeda.. I hear alot of guys that had that 180 motor smoking and breaking up its shaft.. well at least its confirmed.... Yeah with my TP brushless set-up it is hard to get a soft start it is beacuse of the Walkera TX were you cannot set the throttle curve to the best possible position that you like.. but with the other ESC it does have the soft start part so no problem with throttling hard..

the burst power that you got from the Walkera ESC is because of the ESC itself its not programable to have the soft start function.
For your new align ESC.. i guess you wont have problems with it.. setting the soft start well you will see the difference.. the soft start setting that you made.. yeah it does have a soft start for your heli not to move during start ups.. but setting also the softstart wil also delay the throttle so if you will be needing the punch youll get it only it wil be delayed.. you can ask the other guys out there with the ESC and you will know what it does...
the motor that you got well i really dont know the performance.. i havent seen and elite park flyer motor with 3700Kv rating.. is that new? is it an inrunner motor?
I am sorry if you find my motor and the whole setup to be annoying or upsetting.. this was all sent to me by the manufacturer for review,test and bench testing... its like test to fail. to give feedback on fieldtest. currently the performance of the parts seem to be good.. but have to do more to assure the performance...

W37 Cepeda

You don't have to apologize.. It's not your fault.
Correction though, it was not the 180 motor.
It was the ws-wk-20-002 motor. It was completely shorted inside.
the insulation gave out, and it grounded. It smoked like an indian pipe.

But I will correct you on some of the things you wrote below.
The proper way is suppose to be is have a soft start. no doubt. The burst
of power at the start is a bad thing, for reasons mentioned.

The Align ESC has soft start, the but the comment you made about the power burst
issue is totally wrong. Were ever you get your information, or if you
are assuming, your not doing us a service here.. You must have facts and have it backuped
by manufacturer specs.

The Align ESC soft start is only enabled only on 2 conditions.
1. At 1st power up.
2. After 5 seconds of complete throttle down.

Other than that, the throttle responds the same why as any other.

This Align ESC I recommend. It's only 55 bucks.. but you get this.

1. programmable throttle max and throttle min
2. programmable device settigns. Airplane , heliocopter 1 and heliocopter 2
3 programmable motor brake 1-2-3
4 programmable power saver
5 programmable powercutoff rate (battery saver)
6 programmable throttle curves
7. Programmable softstart.
8 locator becon
9 RF detectiion cutoff

All of this is field programmable.

The motor is the Elite 400 Park flyer rate @ 3700rpms. I don't know if its new, but
it is the Inrunner series I believe. They are identical to the
walkeras in every shape. As a matter of fact. I took apart the
old motor, and used the shaf magnet so that I would not
have to buy a sproket gear to fit the ELite 400, cause the original shaft
ends round were you insert the sproket gear. On the walkare motor,
the shape is a half moon. So you could not insert it on the new shaft.
So, hence the problem,, I switched shafts. Which by the way, the magnet
is the shaft entirely all one piece. So I retained the original gear with
all the proper teeth and size.

For those who purchase this motor, be aware that it will not come with the proper
gear. You must bring you old one to the shop, they will find one that will fit it, or do
what I did, if you have and old brushless motor.

Good luck.

soneebee

well if you got the wk-ws-20-002 motor am not sure cause you say its a ws-wk.. is this walkera? the one on the picture is pinkish red right? then it might be a walkera motor.it cant be an AON cause its small and has no fins on it. if this is it then it is a 180 motor it has 2 poles and a 2.3mm diam. shaft with notching on the shaft for pinion. The pinion gear or the "sproket" that you are saying should have the 2.3mm hole diamter with grubscrew.
For the ESC. I know the manual and the instructions. This is standard for the align ESC's but this are setting made by the manufacturer and is not always applicable on all setups.. this is also dependent on the equipment it is placed on. the brushelss motor that you are using it into.. and the battery type..... The elite 400 motor you got as you said is like that of the walkera in size so i presume that this is a 2 pole motor.. I have'nt seen this motor but i know of a park flier E-flight 400 3700Kv motor for planes and this is for direct drive and has a 2mm shaft diameter this has the same configuration as that of the walkera 180L motor.
what do you think is the difference between your motor with the align one and what can you get with a 2 pole motor compared to a 6 pole align motor? this are very different in controls for the ESC.. so you cannot tell me that the function of all motors are the same on an ESC that was designed on there own motor and product. That is why there are independent testing facilities that does bench testing, field tests on actual electronics and parts to see if what is rated and said are all correct not all rated values are 100% accurate, yes the align ESC is quite good since this has good control over a range of different motors and it does have more functions than other ESC at a fraction of the price, but man we dont base the capability of the ESC on its specifications.. this are just the manufacture guidelines to which you can asses what you getting. I tell you we are a manufacturer of IC's and chips used on most of your electronics.. I have been doing RnD on this for years the dies on the IC's are identical in looks and assembly but funcational testing shows different readings.. and this are all segregated by its class and quality.. class A ones are usually not sold commercially this passed a higher range of test and MRT's and the list goes down class up to parts that are sold on that ESC's that we have.. better yet make test comparisons on your new setup and compare it with the one that you got before.. better do some testing... check the speed/RPM, voltage, Amp, temp, int temp. wattage and all... better check also on the amp draw on field.. this motor that you got might suck on your battery. if this is the case then the one i am telling you the soft start will kick in sicne the ESC resets itself due to Voltage cut off. and if you are flying with and experince this cutoff glitch then it is not good to start up slow specially if you are already falling like a rock i guess you dont understand the term punching it ....

W37 Cepeda

IF you don't know what a wk-ws-20-002....Frankly you are at a lost dude.

This leads me to believe you are just talkin the talk and have
no clue on what exactly you are saying. You may have gotton lucky etc, etc.. but
obviously you don't know anything about what I have mentioned, at least.

On your own admittion your say you know nothing about the motor I have, never the less
you talk like you own one. You don't have the Align ESC, you dont have the Elite motor.. so really you know
nothing about my configuration.

Do you see me talking crap about other peoples setup? No, and nor I care too.. unless ASKED.

Being that as It may, and clearly the ALign ESC is far superior to your setup, I appreciate you
keep your ignorant comments to yourself, until such time you get exactly the same setup and then
make your own opinion, and then it will be validated by people here.

I have many people asking for advice on the setup and parts substitutions etc.
I have never let anyone down, and I get many emails of people asking for help and I do.
And I do it in th most simplelest form without complicating it. Most of us don't
understand the technical aspects of it. Most of us won't care about it, we just wanna
have fun and pay the least amount fo money. I have offered that to many of us and also
input in my experiences with this hobby. Mnay take myh advice , and some don't. That's
totally ok, cause I went thru the same learning curve as all of us.

PS
And by the way FOR YOUR EDUCATION and INFORMATION PURPOSES..the WK-WS-20-002 is the
WALKERA BRUSLESS MOTOR. @ 3200. THe website says 3300, but that is a clerical error.

soneebee

Man i am not to fight with you and i know that you are a good person to ask for advices. but as you stated try to browse down on what you said a couple of sets back you said its not a
qoute "Correction though, it was not the 180 motor. It was the ws-wk-20-002 motor" then if it is a WS-WK motor then its not walkera right but if its a Wk-Ws then it is read the lines i said and if it is the wk-ws-20-002 then it is a 180 motor.. no need to get pissed off I am not here to fight over something that you got... or some other guys have.. we are just here to share experiences.. i know you have your own but no need to gett all mad and stuff... I dont know how long or how deep your experience on RC's is.. but who cares as long as you are in the hobby and having fun thats great...

man did i say anything wrong that offended you in some way.... why so pi**ed

W37 Cepeda

Man.. you really are that #$?#$?

The Walkera 180 Brushless motor part # is: #HM022E-046

This clearly shows that this motor is not the ws-wk-20-002. Though they may seem

the same, they are NOT entirely. The 180 is the old motor. The new ones are labeled ws-wk series.

Again I prove my point. dude just forget about it. You obviously like to take a mind beating.

LOOK AT THE ATTACHMENTS BELOW, let me hear you talk now???.... if you tell me they are the same, than I have heard

everything......





[quote]ORIGINAL: soneebee

Man i am not to fight with you and i know that you are a good person to ask for advices. but as you stated try to browse down on what you said a couple of sets back you said its not a
qoute "Correction though, it was not the 180 motor. It was the ws-wk-20-002 motor" then if it is a WS-WK motor then its not walkera right but if its a Wk-Ws then it is read the lines i said and if it is the wk-ws-20-002 then it is a 180 motor.. no need to get pissed off I am not here to fight over something that you got... or some other guys have.. we are just here to share experiences.. i know you have your own but no need to gett all mad and stuff... I dont know how long or how deep your experience on RC's is.. but who cares as long as you are in the hobby and having fun thats great...

man did i say anything wrong that offended you in some way.... why so pi**ed

soneebee

hey mr genius.. I dont know if you are trying to prove something here
if you are telling me that the motor you are posting is somewhat special and of the different kind i guess you got it all wrong now I really know why you are that pissed... you even posted a picture.. saying that it is a 180L motor... man I think you are something out of the ordinary.. dont try to prove yourself no ones asking you too... but please!!! because of this I think of you differently now...
Man if you are telling me that this is of two different motors.. I think you have to go to china and work for walkera to know that this motor is the same.... I dont have to argue with you we are on the same team here.. but you are really something. I should have known..

dont tell me next that on your attached picture the left one is old because its black and white and the other is colored...
if it was an old motor as you are stating then the walkera logo should'nt have been Black & RED.. walkera started selling there product on a blue suite with a different logo...

Heliwannabe

Received my parts and I am flying again I ran out my 2200c 12 lipo setting it up today (around an hour) and it is as smooth as ever. I cannot comment on the Walkera motors as I am running the same setup as Army. Its a small "outrunner 3200KV" I believe, but it just has tons of power and runs cool. After 10 minutes at hover power the motor is just uncomfortable to touch and the battery is lukewarm. The ESC is just warm. I think there is some beginners luck here but with the help of Army I seem to have struck on a pretty good combo.

Im just happy to be flying again and the training gear are staying on.

Jim

W37 Cepeda

what are you smoking dude... please...

What did I write? Didn't I Put this down? again....

The Walkera 180 Brushless motor part # is: #HM022E-046 (the old part#)

and what you showed me , is exactly the same picture I posted... The 180L which is the WK-WS-20-002?

Which in fact you did not know what a

WK-WS-20-002 is...up until 1 minute ago, because you still don't get it?

W37 Cepeda

HElliwanna,

With the lipo @ 2200ma, you should get 15minutes if fly time and maybe more.

I get almost 15minutes on my 1800ma battery.

If your fly time is too short, than something is wrong. You might have

to much pitch. Your throttle setting could be of also. The general rule

is that a 3/4 of the way up on the throttle stick, your helicopter should be airborn.

I adjust my pitch all the time with the v2 pot. but, sometimes I cut the fly flight time

cause of to much pitch.

Heliwannabe

No complaints on the run time. You are probably pretty close though at 15 to 20 Minutes since tweaking on the bench involves a lot of idle time. I have a 1800 10c but am sticking with the 2200 for now because the battery is considerbly longer and the balance is perfect. The 1800 nets a tail hevy static condition and I need all the help I can get.

Jim

soneebee

man you are the one lost.. you are the one who said that the WK-WS-20-002 is not a 180 motor and the WS-WK-20-002 is the old part #. you are the one that said this motor is different from one another.. man can you read what you posted...
you are one heck of a lost person.. and i don't believe that you know anything on what you are saying nor what you have had been discussing...

and to tell you this are both the same parts.. if you rely on the part numbers place on the helis then this is also the same part as that of the one they advertise for the DF36 brushless.. dont tell me that this is old motor part or this is new part number.. you dont even know what the hell are you saying .... you comment on the parts listed on the heli as spares and you get the same part and say that its part # is defferent... man it is the same!!!

now i know what type of hobbyist you are... you are the type that rely on the manufacturing specs. and what is written on the instructions and don't experiment on the betterment of the item that will fit your likes and ability.. you are that elite few that is bound to follow what is on the manual.. so you are the one that uses 8AAA batteries on the TX rather than using the 8AA since this was clearly written on the box of walkera and on the manual. so whatever you read you believe and follow.

CitYbYdBaY

soneebee,

Don't even trip dude! Some people are just hardheaded no matter what. They just have to go back and read what they posted more carefully, to see how foolish they really were.

soneebee

I know I wasn't really that i am really upset or something i know that we are all in the same team and using what we have.. and we are continously learning.. but i dont understand why keep on pushing something that is already wrong...

balance_mind

Ya Soneebee, relax alittle

I understand what your qns meant for W37. I think he might have mis-interpreted it.

W37 Cepeda

Helliwanna,

Yeah, I see what you mean, I agree with you. I don't have 2200ma battery, but I did
fly my unit with one the other day, and I had to adjust my trims. This battery brings
more wieght to the front, this is good, cause the Df37 is tail heavy. You must have
a really nice hover!

W37 Cepeda

For all to know,

The problem with Sonebee is this:

He comes to me and basicly says my ESC will crash my helicopter
cause of the soft startup, this is bad thing in his view. Cause I can't" punch it"

After I explain that the ESC works the same as any other, he refuses to see
spec on how it does this, and refuses to realize that the ALign ESC superior to the one he has,
again he says, and I qoute:

"if you are flying with and experince this cutoff glitch then it is not good to start up slow specially if you are already falling like a rock i guess you dont understand the term punching it .... "

So to add insult to injury, I tell him the motor I had, and he does not know what a "WK-WS-20-002"
I quote" well if you got the wk-ws-20-002 motor am not sure cause you say its a ws-wk.. is this walkera?"

I'm taking the last stand on realizing this guy does not know what he is saying, why am I going
to entertain him further more?

Really, he has no Align ESC, he has no ELite 400 motor, no experience on these items what so ever, and
then he has the nerve to talk crap, and instigate that he knows these items and is an expert" when he doesn't
even own them.

If I don't know something , I don't talk about it, or presume I'm an resisdent expert.

He goes on saying that the 180 is the same motor. If you type 180 brushless, you get the
B/W picture. This motor was an upgrade option for the 22e model helicopters.

If you look closely you will see that the 180 has no black stub coming out it was flat on top with vents.
The bearings was inside right underneath. This cut the life of the motor, Walkera realized that.
So the new 180L (ws-wk-20-002) has a black stub sticking out, on the top and bottom,
in this stub, it houses the bearings, outside and away from the internal components,
so that the bearings will last longer and avoid being fried by the intense heat generated.

The 180 Motor suffered from whats called "STALL" when the unit malfunctioned, it got so hot, that
it melts itself. At these extreme temperatures, the glue and the insulation on the copper windings
begin to melt, as they melt, more of the copper gets exposes, more its starts to short out adding more
heat. Due to gravity all the melted gunk of oil, and glue, and insulation , creeps into the lower bearings
and once in, it glues it together, hence stalling the shaft, and sometimes breaking the upper portion
of the shaft while its running.

The 180L, has the bearing lower, more away from this danger. Cause the bearing is lower, it left room
to add a copper sleeving on the lower portion and upper portion of the shaft that acts like a insulator
preventing material from creeping into the bearings. That's how Walkera fixed the problem with old 180 motors.

For the last time, here are COLOR PICTURES that are fairly recent. After this:

I'm done with this dude.

soneebee

Cepeda,

I did not insult your set up in anyway nor at any time said that the Align ESC is non superior
and that it is nothing but crap.
The walkera motor that you are pertaining to, i know it and I know it by heart.
I am not at anytime against your setup nor the parts that you have.
All the facts written and stated in this forum was read and judged
by the other people who passed by this thread and they have already spoken
I rest my case.

finlessfred

Hello people. this thread seem to be very hot. I see that there is some challenge here. I read the whole last page of this thread you are right on soneebee your post is more valid and the terms are more likely to be correct.
This cepeda guy is full of crap. I dont see that people must follow his lead. Better read more on the terms buddy a sproket is for bicycles and we use the term pinion gear here. You know what it is? its that aluminum/brass thing with teeth that you plug to the motor shaft, yeah that is the one! that is not a sproket and there is no chain for the sproket. is there? buddy you are one guy who thinks you know everything but in reality you are a newbie

bob

W37 Cepeda

Listen,

you don't know me dude, so I dismiss your comment just as easily.

you come here and said you read the last pages,

obvoiusly, you have not read when I began posting , so you don't

know how I go about in this forum, you are talking just for talk.

It's amazing how people form there own opinion without the facts in hand.

This is exactly what I was saying from the start.

I never said you have to do what I do, I give the options, you do what you want.

You would of known this if you read all my posts. No one is perfect, but you never

seen anyone here talk crap about other poeple setups without having the facts on hand.


Know, you want to go ahead and side with him, fine.. NP. Everyone to his own.

You say I'm full of crap, that's your opinion. Ask others here that have purchased

replacement parts for the DF37 that are cheap and proven to work, after my recommendation.

Then they are full of crap too? cause they took my advice? Like I said , you don't know me.

finlessfred

my apologies to you my fine man. I am very sorry on the term crap. I have only read the final page of this thread and saw nothing wrong on the stated fact by the other guy. It was based on facts applicable on all helis not only on the 37. In the RC heli world or even the RC's dictionary the pinion gear is a pinion gear and not a sproket. If you want to make the people to believe on the facts and statements you make make sure that it is correct. I am not for the other guy but his ideas seem to be logical. The way he addressed the topic was not to your setup but in general. I share the same cutoff problems on my TREX's and this has all the types of ESC you can imagine. That is why I think of you as a newb you dont read between the lines. I address that the motor fact you stated was correct and well accepted.

bob

W37 Cepeda

I live in FL.

Though I'm american, my english is fair at best. My typing is not the best niether

But I know what I have today from a personal friend pilot that flies both copters and jets.

he does this for a living, and guess what his hobby is? RC PLANES AND COPTERS.

If you look at the others in this forum, you will see that

this is an international forum, we get words wrong all the time. and it's alright.

You are correct, its not called a sprocket, its a gear. I admit it. The truth about it,

I was not far of, because if you get the defenition of a sproket, it's actually a gear.

Acoording the Wiki Pedia Dictionanary : sprocket: "is a gear or wheel with metal teeth that meshes with a chain or track.
Sprockets are used in bicycles, motorcycles, cars, tanks and other machinery."

So it does not only pertian to one type of an object, surelly not the one we speak about, still my bad.

When I put something up in this forum, I don't do it unless I actually

experienced it. It does no good to speculate on item I have no knowledge of.

Right know the current project is trying to find a metal head replacement for the DF37,

I can say it has been really hard, hence it cost to much. I have pruchased parts here

and there, and what I find that works, I post it here. I contribute.

I have taken from this forum too.. because is "Army", I have converter to HS-55 servos

thanks to him....It's all a two way street. Did I say thanks ARMY? Thanks...hehe

soneebee

Thank you Mr. Finless for you comment about this topic. are you bob fineless? please to meet you Sir

W37 Cepeda

I made some progress in the head conversion to metal.

I found in the Align Catalog a swashplate that
will replace the DF37 swashplate.

The draw back is that if you do the swap, you
have to use the ball linkages from your old one.

Cause if you don't replace everything, the bell crank

arms wont fit, they are too small.. hence the swap.

ALN- HS1061.. it goes for around 40 bucks.. a little steap. But it works.

W37 Cepeda

Dude I spoke to that guy and he replyed with an apology.. ok so were you get off
I don't know..

Second, I posted new pictures ACTUALLY SHOWING the motors are different.
FAIRELY NEW COLOR PICTURES.. if you can't see it .well...whatever...
I had a friend who is in Taiwan, I asked her to call up Walkera.. And she
got back to me with what I posted.

It is 100% clear to me.. Sorry it's not for you. So far you have proven nothing,
if you show me a picture of the motors being the same, then you won.





"Cepeda,

I did not insult your set up in anyway nor at any time said that the Align ESC is non superior
and that it is nothing but crap.
The walkera motor that you are pertaining to, i know it and I know it by heart.
I am not at anytime against your setup nor the parts that you have.
All the facts written and stated in this forum was read and judged
by the other people who passed by this thread and they have already spoken
I rest my case. "