Harquebus

http://www.anicursor.com/colpicwar2.html

I've seen these pics before but never so complete and with such a narrative.

The Panther-killer was a M26 Pershing and one is shown in the last pic. Further research seems to corroborate this fact but might anyone know the details about this tank, the tank's unit and her crew?

Might be fun to model this particular tank in 1/16...

-Harq

Panther F

This is one of them on the net:

http://www.3ad.com/history/wwll/feat...ates.index.htm

Here's a short video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...16787641857936


Jeff

swathdiver

That was Sgt. Bob Early's tank. There are several photos of his Pershing on the net, the driver's side front fender has what appears to be a 20mm hole in it. There is also a video of this engagement, his tank put 3 rounds into the Panther, the first shot was on the move.

Wozwasnt

I've seen this vid loads of times but this is the first time I've seen it explained like this. I've never noticed before that the Panther had it's gun lined up in the direction of the Pershing when it got hit. I always thought that it was aiming at the Sherman and the Pershing was behind the Sherman.

swathdiver

The Pershing came up another street to flank the Panther, the Panther crew heard them coming and was traversing the turret when Early's crew spotted them at point blank range and fired without stopping. Then they put two more rounds into it for good measure and lots of .30 cal as the crewman tried to escape. One round exploded below the barrel against the mantlet, another penetrated the sponson and one entered below the sponson above the road wheels if memory serves.

WhiteWolf McBride

My Feedback: (3)

Damn...

I've seen this video clip as well, but usually the 'censored' version without the images of the crew struggling out. Anyone know of a place where it is downloadable? I'd like to be able to store it with my other pieces of video now that I have a quality DVD burner.

I'd also read about the 3AD site, but the Bates film page seems to be a new addition. Nice catch Panther F.

Anyone know of a source of the video ~before~ this one, of the Sherman hits? I thought the stills on Anicorser were from a video, but perhaps they are only stills. Shame the images are so small.

swathdiver

I have a 16.5mb clip from the history channel with the gunner describing the action. I got it off the internet. I've seen another video that narrates the hits and shows the crewmen escaping from the Panther. The history channel clip shows the Sherman crew bailing out of their tank too.

swathdiver

[link=http://mundosgm.com/smf/index.php?topic=1332.msg35811#msg35811]Narration of Attack[/link]

swathdiver

[link=http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3400216787641857936&q=pershing+panther]Jim Bates Video[/link]

Harquebus

Thanks for all the 'intel' on sources for this film reel. I had an underlying interest in just the footage and discussion on what actually occured between all the armor involved, including the hapless Sherman. Incidentally, I think the crew bailing out of that same Sherman (I could be wrong) can be found in this video which also shows footage of an M26 on the move and firing (looks suspiciously like the Panther-killing M26 with 20mm hole in driver's side fender that swathdiver mentioned):

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...rshing+panther

The footage seems to be a little clearer, especially in regard to the frames where the Panther goes up in flames.

This footage is as grim as the gun camera footage we see today showing utter decimation of Iraqi insurgents in the present war. That Panther got really messed up to put it mildly.

-Harq

swathdiver

That's the History Channel footage.

TIGER76

Some great info there guys [sm=thumbup.gif]

schutzstaffel

amazed how easy that panther armor is pierced [X(]

EXTANKER

i believe that panther had just kill another pershing

EXTANKER

it was criminal that we sent those kids into battle with that death trap sherman,looks like some got out of the panther. makes ya want to join the navy until ya see a shell go through 18 ins. of battle ship armor. go air force until ya see the skin on a b17 can be poked through with an ice pick. i,ll take ohio IN THE REAR WITH THE GEAR. SUCH A WASTE OF LIFE I,M ASHAMED to be part of the human race sometimes. in their honor how can their glory ever fade

Harquebus

Regarding the M4 Sherman...

Blame General Patton, the Army beaurocracy, the slow realization to the changes in warfare, and adherence to outdated armor doctrine.

On the other hand, the Sherman was never designed to get involved in tank versus tank battles but was designed for infantry support. In this role it was very successful.

At least it fared well in the beginning of the war against contemporary German tanks.

-Harq

ksoc

You have to blame a lot more Generals than Patton. Who was the Army General who kept pusing the Tank Destroyer doctrine? Also the politician can share the blame. Things seemed to be going so well, that a lot of people thought the war would be over by Christmas '44. In anticipation of this, they started preparation to switch from a wartime to peacetime economy. Ramping up production of the 'new' Pershing was seen as unnecessary. That was until the 'little' problem we had in the Belgium woods.

Kevin O'C
<S.C.A.T.>

Templars83

Great links - thanks and thanks Harq.

crose

Do you have the History Channel location for the Cologne battle video?[8D] Thanks

The_Stuff

is that the same area from the game "brothers in arms"? friend of mine thinks thats the cathedral from the game

Harquebus

Ah... opening the tomb to a dead thread once again.

It seems that Sgt. Early's tank and others like it are often very devoid of markings such as stars/national insignia and have only hull numbers (30119848 for example) and perhaps some bumper numbers (at least based on what I've seen in the Cologne videos and pictures of the destroyed Pershing "Fireball" ).

Was this the norm this late in the war? I know there was a tendency to paint over the stars as they were seen as a nice target for German tanks to place rounds in but how much was this put into practice?

THANKS!

[Edited to remove smiley]

swathdiver

It was the norm, they also didn't repaint the stars when tanks were rebuilt and upgraded until after the war. Many of the tanks were so heavily laden with sandbags and improvised armor that they resorted to putting the bumper codes on the barrel.

heavyaslead

Be sure to check the associated links at bottom of Dierk's page, has the frame by frame and video previously mentioned.

tac23

90mm round at almost point blank range

Panther F

Yeah, and at some of it's lightest armor too. I like the interview video almost as well:

[link=http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3360247551668071318&vt=lf&hl=en]Pershing VS Panther[/link]