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New product; Wild Hare goes electric!

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New product; Wild Hare goes electric!

Old 08-24-2009, 09:20 AM
  #26  
rctom
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!

The say that the shipment will leave china in 20 to 30 days. I learned that last night.

So it seems there will be a delay and they will not be here until mid October, sorry. This seems to happen with my builder a lot, no matter how much time I give them they don't really get going until several weeks past the deadline.

On a related front I test flew the electric Edge yesterday with a 6S A123 2300mah pack. The plane handles the added weight (about 6 oz. more than same capacity Lipo) without any problem, it flies great and still has unlimited vertical. I didn't get a chance to check the flight time, but I flew it about 3 minutes and put pack 500 mah when I recharged it. My math says it should be good for 8-9 minutes with some safety margin.

The really good news about this is the way they recharge. A123s can be recharged at up to 10 amps. If you can come up with a charger that will recharge 20 volts at 10 amps you can recharge this pack in about 15 minutes. That means you could have just one battery pack and fly it every 15 minutes.

Now comes the hunt for that charger. But even using my little multi-charger (which recharges a 6 cell pack at 2.6 amps) it can be recharged in an hour, making it practical to have just 2 packs and fly all day.

TF
Old 08-24-2009, 12:15 PM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!

stupid RCU timed out and dumped my post again, I will never learn. I need to copy the text before hitting OK. Oh well, I will sum up:

This charger may work, although it apparently needs 18V input to get full current output: http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...alance/Charger

Another option is to "zip charge" the packs. A 6S pack could be zip charged using two deep-cycle 12V batteries in series. Or we could charge the 6S pack in parallel as two 3S packs.

"Zip charging": connect the pack directly to a 12V car or marine battery using about 8' of 18 gauge speaker wire. Upon initial connection the cells charge at around 20A, but quickly settle down to 8-12A range and finish the charge around 5A. If using a Whattmeter we can determine the current, voltage, and mAh input. Charge until the voltage reads 3.8/cell (11.4V in this case). Quick and easy!
Old 08-25-2009, 11:24 AM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!

And don't worry anybody, I will try "zip charging" some of my A123 packs before I will recommend anybody else do it.
Old 08-25-2009, 11:18 PM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!

I can wait. No real rush anyway.

I was checking out the web page & saw the 73" inch planes. Are they in stock & what are the changes that are in store for them? When I was looking at the 73" 260 I noticed something about a redesign. I really liked my 33% 260. Had over a thousand flights on it when the transmitter batt. failed & she went in. Probably the best flying ARF I have ever flown. If I ever find another NIB it will be mine even if I have to sell my soul! "Course I am going to have to go back to work first! Disability doesn't allow much in the budget for big planes.
Old 09-07-2009, 12:19 PM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!

The web page for the electric Edge is up now and prices have been posted on the price list.

http://wildharerc.com/products/E-Edge540/

BTW yesterday I had an opportunity to see an Extreme-Flight electric Extra fly. Our plane is a very different product.

The EF plane is primarily a "trick" type aircraft, it excels at very tight close-in flight not unlike one sees at the E-TOC with foamys. It has an advertised wing area of 500 sq. inches but is actually 444 sq. inches. I know this because I own one and I have measured it. Our Edge/Slicks are 525 sq. inches using the same calculations.

The Wild Hare E-Edge is very much a smaller version of our larger planes. It's larger than the EF plane, carries a bigger battery load and covers a lot more ground. I would say that in the hands of a good pilot it could even do a respectable job flying an IMAC sequence. Of course it will fly 3D, but it's more in the style of our 50cc planes rather than something that can be flown in a gymnasium or a garage.

If you want to keep up your flying skills for your larger planes this is the one you want!

TF
Old 09-07-2009, 12:48 PM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!

Okay, you have me convinced.

In in for one plane, complete with all the widgets required to get it into the air plus two more bare airframes. If one was of each type it could be fun trying the different planes to explore their differences.
Old 09-21-2009, 02:47 PM
  #32  
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!

"The EF plane is primarily a "trick" type aircraft, it excels at very tight close-in flight not unlike one sees at the E-TOC with foamys. It has an advertised wing area of 500 sq. inches but is actually 444 sq. inches. I know this because I own one and I have measured it."

It is actually 498.6. This includes the area within the fuselage if the wing were one piece and projected through the fuselage. This is the method we use when determining wing area on all of our planes, and is pretty common in this industry. Not trying to start anything here, but I want to make sure the facts are correct about my aircraft.

Best of luck with your new electric plane Tom. These things are too much fun!
Old 09-21-2009, 02:51 PM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!

In my ongoing effort to make flying radio control airplanes more affordable, I have been working on the problem of batteries for the soon-to-be-delivered electric Edge and Slick.

I have tried many combinations of Lipo packs, with good to excellent results. But I always come down to one important factor, cheap batteries don't last as long as good ones, either in flying time or in terms of their ability to endure rapid discharge without being damaged. And recharging these things is slow and can be dangerous if not done properly. To make multiple flights in a day one really needs to have a few battery packs available.

This weekend I flew this little plane with a 6S A123 pack and I was very happy with the results. A few guys and myself were playing with flying the IMAC basic sequence. I flew the Edge-E and did the basic sequence twice, that took about 6 minutes I think, plus takeoff and landing time, taxi, etc.

I recharged the pack using a iCharger 106B charger set at 6.0 amps. The pack recharged in 16 minutes and had used 1455 mah of power. This means I used about 75% of the available power, A123s are good for about 2000 mah of usable power. I could have flown another 2-3 minutes depending on how hard I wanted to fly.

Flight performance was very good, no problem at all accelerating in vertical lines or doing any maneuver. It doesn't have the rocketing performance of a 4S Lipo but it is still an excellent performer. It is similar to one of our 50cc planes with a DLE-55, or possible better.

The upshot of this is that if one has a proper charger and a 12v supply of sufficient capacity (car battery) one can fly and recharge and fly again within 20 minutes on a single pack. No need to ever change out the battery pack, no need for the cost of spare Lipos, etc. Just recharge in 15 minutes and fly again.

TF
Old 09-21-2009, 03:00 PM
  #34  
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!


ORIGINAL: EXTREME FLIGHT

It is actually 498.6. This includes the area within the fuselage if the wing were one piece and projected through the fuselage. This is the method we use when determining wing area on all of our planes, and is pretty common in this industry.
Chris is exactly correct.

Back in "the old days" before plug-in wings we would measure the area of the entire wing, to include the area covered by the fuse. To fail to do so would mess with our "standard" numbers to which many of us have become accustomed.

FWIW I believe SD Model (Aviation Models, TOC Aviation, TT/TOC, etc) does NOT include this portion of the wing in their calculations, thus making their planes seem to have "smaller" wings than comparable models. Not entirely certain about this however on the newer planes, I will need to measure my plane when I get home. My older 50cc plane understated the wing area by ~150 in^2.

I can't wait for these new WH planes to come out. Extreme Flight and Wild Hare both make outstanding airplanes, both in terms of flight performance and fit-and-finish.

Old 09-21-2009, 04:25 PM
  #35  
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!


ORIGINAL: rctom

I recharged the pack using a iCharger 106B charger set at 6.0 amps. The pack recharged in 16 minutes and had used 1455 mah of power. This means I used about 75% of the available power, A123s are good for about 2000 mah of usable power. I could have flown another 2-3 minutes depending on how hard I wanted to fly.
Very interesting news here, Tom. Did you change the prop at all to account for the higher voltage from the 6S A123 vice the 4S LiPo? Did you check the current on the 6S A123 pack? I think I would almost prefer a bit more weight for IMAC practice, just to make it "feel" like a larger plane in the stalls, spins, recoveries, pulls/pushes, etc.


Old 09-21-2009, 05:45 PM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!


ORIGINAL: BTerry


ORIGINAL: EXTREME FLIGHT

It is actually 498.6. This includes the area within the fuselage if the wing were one piece and projected through the fuselage. This is the method we use when determining wing area on all of our planes, and is pretty common in this industry.
Chris is exactly correct.

Back in ''the old days'' before plug-in wings we would measure the area of the entire wing, to include the area covered by the fuse. To fail to do so would mess with our ''standard'' numbers to which many of us have become accustomed.

FWIW I believe SD Model (Aviation Models, TOC Aviation, TT/TOC, etc) does NOT include this portion of the wing in their calculations, thus making their planes seem to have ''smaller'' wings than comparable models. Not entirely certain about this however on the newer planes, I will need to measure my plane when I get home. My older 50cc plane understated the wing area by ~150 in^2.

I can't wait for these new WH planes to come out. Extreme Flight and Wild Hare both make outstanding airplanes, both in terms of flight performance and fit-and-finish.

The Extreme Flight extra has a root chord of 12.5" and a tip chord of 7" (which is being optimistic, if I wanted to be exact each dimension is slightly shorter). I just measured it, I bought one just to check this and a few other items.

With a span of 48" you tell me the wing area.

TF
Old 09-21-2009, 05:49 PM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!



Very interesting news here, Tom. Did you change the prop at all to account for the higher voltage from the 6S A123 vice the 4S LiPo? Did you check the current on the 6S A123 pack? I think I would almost prefer a bit more weight for IMAC practice, just to make it ''feel'' like a larger plane in the stalls, spins, recoveries, pulls/pushes, etc.


I did not change the prop. The 6S A123 is nominally 19.8 volts and the ESC sees it as a 5S Lipo. I did not check the current.

The added weight (about +4 ounces over a 4s3300 Lipo) does make it feel more solid, it also makes landings less of an event, now it lands like a larger plane instead of being pushed around by breezes and grasshoppers.

TF
Old 09-21-2009, 08:06 PM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!

I don't know the width of the fuse, so I will guess 4".

4"*12.5" = 62.5 in^2 for the section inside the fuse.

Now each panel is (48" - 4")/2 = 22" span. (12.5"+7")/2 = 19.5/2 = 9.75" average chord. Therefore the area of each panel is approximately 22"*9.75" = 214.5 in^2.

Total area of wing panels= 214.5 + 214.5 = 429 in^2. Add in the "fuse" area and we get 429 + 62.5 = 491.5. Again a rough approximation, but it doesn't really matter.

If you incorporate the wing area "captured" within the fuselage of your Edge and Slick, does the wing area increase? The plane as it now sits it is larger than most on the market.
Old 09-21-2009, 08:11 PM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!

ORIGINAL: rctom


I did not change the prop. The 6S A123 is nominally 19.8 volts and the ESC sees it as a 5S Lipo. I did not check the current.

The added weight (about +4 ounces over a 4s3300 Lipo) does make it feel more solid, it also makes landings less of an event, now it lands like a larger plane instead of being pushed around by breezes and grasshoppers.

TF
This is very exciting, as I have an abundance of unused A123 packs and have not yet purchased any 4S lipos. A pair of 6S A123 packs will suit me just fine. Now I can't wait to buy the plane!
Old 09-21-2009, 11:30 PM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!



If you incorporate the wing area ''captured'' within the fuselage of your Edge and Slick, does the wing area increase? The plane as it now sits it is larger than most on the market.
The formula I use does capture some of the area within the fuse, but only a part of it. I normally just add root and tip, divide by 2 and multiply by the span. If I use this formula on the EF plane it's 468 inches to the WH 525. If I use your formula with the WH plane my area goes up to almost 550 vs the EF 491. My formula therefore only captures half of the area between the wings since I am assuming an average cord for the entire span giving only half the area in the center.

They are different planes, I'm not trying to compare them, but I have been puzzled by their published stats.

I guess I could increase all my numbers by 5%, I've been doing it wrong all this time. That will give the competition heartburn.

TF

Old 09-22-2009, 09:40 AM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!

I can't wait to see pictures of the Slick version. Have you finalized the colors yet?
Old 09-22-2009, 10:55 AM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!

Yes, the color scheme is as I've published, red/black on a yellow base, but there will also be a whiet base for those who don't like yellow.

TF
Old 09-22-2009, 12:48 PM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!


ORIGINAL: rctom

Yes the slick is the same scheme, but I am getting half the planes with red/black/white instead of red/black/yellow for those people who are sick of yellow.

TF
Sorry, shoulda read the dang thread!
Old 10-02-2009, 11:21 AM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!

Any chance of getting a picture of the motor box/front end without the cowl on it posted?
Old 10-02-2009, 03:11 PM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!


Here you go.

Please note that the motor spacers will be supplied with the kit, these photos show some spacers that I made myself but it will come with an assortment of laser cut spacers so you can adjust the spacing for whatever motor you choose.

TF
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Old 10-02-2009, 07:14 PM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!

Thanks!

Old 10-28-2009, 07:40 AM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!

I just saw these in the AMA mag. $350 for plane, motor, esc, prop, spinner, and servos!! Holy crap, that is a great deal! Are these available yet??

Makes me miss my Wildhare Extra from about 8 years ago I lost in a low rolling harrier when I caught the wingtip in the weeds. []

Thanks,

Brian
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Old 10-28-2009, 08:44 AM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!


ORIGINAL: TUMBLER

I just saw these in the AMA mag. $350 for plane, motor, esc, prop, spinner, and servos!! Holy crap, that is a great deal! Are these available yet??
Not quite, they should be here about 11/15. Yes it's a great deal and still a top quality product,

TF
Old 10-28-2009, 08:59 AM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!

Cool! I am trying to get 1 or 2 guys to go in on a purchase with me.

I know what you are saying about the close in aerobatics. I have had a lot of wood planes that have a foamy feel. They are great for doing close in 3d stuff, but do not have the same feel as a bigger airplane. They are too easy to fly and have a simulator-like quality to them, so do not necessarily make good practice planes for when you can't fly your big plane. However, they are a blast to fly and great for learning something new. Each has their place, so its nice to have both types of electrics I guess.

Brian
Old 11-27-2009, 04:48 PM
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Default RE: New product; Wild Hare goes electric!

Today I went flying with my e-Edge to make a point.

I threw the plane into my 1999 Camaro back seat along with the transmitter and a charger. The plane is equipped with a 6S A123 pack. I did not have any spare, the A123 pack was not changed during the day. No truck or SUV, not even a big sedan, just a little sporty car.

I was able to make 4 flights in about 1 1/2 hours. Each flight was about 7 minutes. That's almost a half hour of flying and about 50 minutes of charging (assuming that the pack is charged when you start. I seriously doubt that I would find a 15 minute wait between flights to be a problem.

I used the iCharger 106B which has an output of about 180 watts. Using the battery in the car I was able to charge the pack at 8.5 amps. From nearly dead to full took less than 16 minutes.

In this configuration I have to say this is the most economical form of R/C flying that exists. An A123 pack can be recharged at least 1000 times, some say up to 2000. With the low vibration of the electric motor I figure the plane should last that long too.

So for an investment of $450 for the plane plus the power kit plus one 6S A123 pack you can fly for about 45 cents a flight which assumes you throw the plane and battery away after 1000 flights.

The iCharger 106B costs about $130, but it can be used for lots of other things.

About the only thing that would have improved this is if the plane could be rolled up into a ball.

TF

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