28% vs 33-35% airframes
 

A question, everyone always says bigger flys better and I do agree, however I wanted to ask it with more defined parameters.

How much difference is there in a 28% Extra vs a 35% Extra in its flight parameters?? Same could be asked of the Sukhoi and such as well. Is the bigger really worth the extra $$$$ for its flight envelope??

RE: 28% vs 33-35% airframes
 

I can answer that using the Edge as an example. I own the 33% version and have flown a club members 28% version several times (I helped him a lot in the setup and tuning so I have about 12 flights on his) and I can tell you this. Both fly exactly the same and both have about the same power to weight ratio (28% is a a DA50 at 17.5lbs, the 33% is 22lbs even on a 3W80CS) but the bigger one is a bit easier as it seems to do everything just a bit slower. One of my favorite maneuvers is KE spins, the 28% version winds up nice and tight and really gets moving so it makes it hard to have it come out right where you want it. The 33% does the same thing except it does not get going as fast so it is easier to stop it right where I want it.

Landing the bigger one seems easier, not that the smaller one is hard but it again seems to slow down even more. I can get the bigger one to roll out much less that the smaller one. Both are balanced very neutral.

Now it could be that everything I am saying is the "optical illusion" that you get when going to a bigger plane where it is actually doing everything at the same speed it just looks slower.

I've let the 28% owner fly mine and he says the same thing. Mine seems to be easier to fly as it seems slower. He said landing it was just so easy

It's like watching a 747 land, it looks like it should not even be flying yet it's at 150 -160 knots. It's the size that makes it look that way

I gotta tell ya, I love both versions but I am glad I got the 33%. I also pulled the plug on the big Sukhoi so I can't wait to get that one going:D

RE: 28% vs 33-35% airframes
 

a bigger plane will do things slower try t-roll wiht a glow 40 size and then try with a 25% plane and then a 33% plane the 33% will do things slower and u don't have to stay on top of it like a smaller plane. that is just one example as the previous post tells it like it is.

RE: 28% vs 33-35% airframes
 

Did you ever fly gliders or watch those that did? Especially those used for thermal duration. Did you note how the smaller gliders seemed to have to work harder to find and maintian lift? Notice how the smaller planes seemed a lot more "jerky" and "jumped" from one place to another? Did you note how the larger gliders seemed to move with majesty and grace from one place to another and how they circled a thermal so smoothly?

The larger planes will simply do a lot of things the smaller ones cannot do. 28% planes land extremely well, but figure the 35% planes land by a factor of 2 or 3 that much better. Snaps are easier to control, maneuvers are more predictable and easier to plan. Though the size and weight went up, with higher numerical wing loadings, the ability of the wing to lift and carry increased considerably, completely negating the increase in actual loading.

Big planes are moving fast, but they appear to be moving slower, and they will fly slower if desired while still maintaining full control authrority. That gives the operator more time to plan and execute maneuvers, and the ability to make them smoother.

I love flying my 28% planes and what they can do, but for the best all around flying experience you can't beat something 33% and up.

RE: 28% vs 33-35% airframes
 

Thanks for the information I appreciate it... I REALLY want to add another 33-35% bird to my hangar, I just have to justify it somehow LoL... Guess I have to talk the boss into it first LoL.

RE: 28% vs 33-35% airframes
 

Yep what they said:D its like balancing on a basket ball vrs a giant beach ball.

RE: 28% vs 33-35% airframes
 

I have flown my 33% and landed slower than others at the field with smaller planes.
The longer the wingspan, the better the effect of wing loading.
This seems to be the effect.

RE: 28% vs 33-35% airframes
 

Sir I respectfully submit........"I WANT IT"....... is justification enough!:D

RE: 28% vs 33-35% airframes
 

I tought if was loosing my time with glow planes when i first flew my 28% planes 2 years ago. Since i have bought my first 33% plane, i sold all my smaller planes to get another 33%. You can't beat wing loading, thrust/weight ratio for the money invested in the 33% with a big single 80CC engine.

The FUN begins with 28% planes but the PARTY begins with 33% planes.;)

RE: 28% vs 33-35% airframes
 

And the serious addiction kicks in as well and sets itself hard once you fly that first 40%.
:D

RE: 28% vs 33-35% airframes
 

The cost difference between a 28% and a 33% plane is typically within $200-400, which is an increase of less than 20% of the total if buying everything from the start. If space and transportation allows, the larger plane is a good investment as the flying experience is twice as nice!

Unfortunately for me flying space is a concern. One of the clubs near me is building a new field that may be better suited to contain a larger plane, and I will move back up. The minivan can fit up to a 40% plane...

I just know there was a bright side to purchasing that minivan last year!

RE: 28% vs 33-35% airframes
 

Hmmm the cost difference seems to me a bit more than 2-4 hundred buckaroos. Lets see, first airframe will cost ya around 3 bills more, then the engine will cost ya at least another 3 bills, and we have not even talked additional servo's and other goodies. Seems to me that we are talking more in the neighborhood of a grand.
I am not too worried about the extra cost, other than for what it would cost me to build a 35% I could have 1.5 28% bird hehehehe.

RE: 28% vs 33-35% airframes
 

I agree, the cost difference is much higher between the two.

Look at the 2 Edge's I compared. The 28% has the same servos and battery system I used but I went with twin batt's instead. Now add the difference between the Da50 and the 3W 80xi-CS version and now toss in 2 more servos plus stronger servos

So now lets look

28% Edge (V1) $399
33% Edge $699
Da50 $595
3W80xi-CS $700 (currently on sale for that much)
Hitech 5945's x 5 $375 (28% edge) Does all surfaces
Hitec 5945's x 4 $300 (33% Edge Ailerons only)
Hitec 5955's x 3 $285

So stopping there and not including all of the little things like batteries, switches, extensions, prop, spinner, mufflers/cans, we have a total of

28% Edge $1369
33% Edge $1984

If I would have done a 100cc in the 33% Edge add another $350 for the engine (Da100) plus x2 for the mufflers These numbers are ballpark and you could possibly find things a bit cheaper.

I am pretty certain my 33% ran me something like $2400- $2500 when I was all done and that is putting it on a CF diet as well

Here are two pics, one of the 28% and one of the 33% percent. Both fly very well.

RE: 28% vs 33-35% airframes
 

The reality of the whole size thing comes down to where you want to go. Just as a trainer 40 is the primer for all the regular size planes a 28" plane is the primer for 35 and 40% planes. If cost is the ultimate factor in determining what you will fly then one would probably stop at 28% and have a lot of fun. If cost is not what sets the limit on fun then you go larger. Personally I've never been able to find a way to honestly justify the cost of any hobby, but have always found a means to do that which I truly wanted to do.

As the old cliche' goes, just do it:D

RE: 28% vs 33-35% airframes
 

I just put a Wild Hare Edge 540T V2 together and the total cost was right at $1850.00. I doubt I could have put a 35-40% together for that. In my case there are also transport issues to and from the field. Ask Bubbagates about his nice new trailer for his planes. Most guys I know use them exclusively to transport their 35-40% planes.

RE: 28% vs 33-35% airframes
 

For my 28%er the cost was over 2k

and the gear i used in my 28%er is the same gear i would use in the 33% 80cc plane

same number and type of servos 5 5955 servos
same batter 4800 peerless li-on
same h9 ti push rods
maybe will need longer servo extensions but the cost for those are min

So the cost diff is in the motor and air frame

The motor a zdz 80 can be had for as little as 450 in the used for sale section of this site. The one i bout cost 600 with a prop muffler and spinner, and by the way had never been run. So the only extra cost i will in cure is an airframe.

So one can have a 33%er for the same cost as a 28%er.

and if your willing to buy a used plane rtf you can find 40%ers in the 3500 range, 35 %ers as low as 2200.

RE: 28% vs 33-35% airframes
 

You're going to need 2 more servos for a 33% plane such as the WH Extra 260/Edge. A person will have to pay about $230 for two 5955 servos.

Unless a person is using the plane for sport flying or low level IMAC, the old version of the ZDZ80 is going to be on the low end of power for something like the 33% WH Extra 260/Edge. If that's satisfactory, fine. But, if a person is expecting to put the old ZDZ80 in a 33% plane and have the same power-to-weight as a 28% with a good 50cc engine, they're going to be disappointed.

As far as the difference in airframe, the new version of the WH 28% Edge and Extra are $430, the 33% WH planes are $700. Just adding that difference and the added cost of 2 5955 servos, the difference is $500.

That should be qualified by saying that you can get a USED 33% plane for the price of a NEW 28% set up.

Dan

RE: 28% vs 33-35% airframes
 

Price comparisons really don't serve any useful purpose. When you get down to it, it comes down to the price of admission. Whether or not a person is willing to pay that price determines whether or not they enter the door. The same holds with owning a business or working for one. The person that wants to own a business has to fess up with a lot more dough than the person that simply shows up for work every day. Price of admission. Flying yourself in a full scale plane to a destination or buying a commercial ticket. Price of admission. Buying a new car or a used one. Price of admission. Motor home or tent. The price of admission.

I see this all the time. Someone that is looking for a way to go cheap, or for less money than the situation generally requires. There's no way the differences in cost can or will balance to equal that of smaller aircraft with less equipment or smaller engines. Transportation is a factor in larger planes. How large can you effectively transport before a larger vehicle or a trailer is needed to get the stuff to the field? Is that expense worth it to the individual? Can the individual find a means to make the additional expense for model transportation work to their advantage? Many, if not most, times the answers will be no and you have to deal with reality. I would like to fly 40% and larger planes, but the price of admission to that level is more than I'm willing to pay simply due to the requirement for different transportation.

You cannot justify the cost of modeling in any size or format unless you are generating an income from it. I've tried the justification avenues more times than I can count and have never been able to make it happen. Each and every individual has to place their own cap on what they can afford for having fun. If the cost of the next level is too high then going to the next level is not an option for that person. It's not possible to bring the cost down to a lower level on a general basis to make it work. We would all like for that to be so but the market won't permit it. It's not something that's justified, just something that's done.

RE: 28% vs 33-35% airframes
 

Well this may be a little bit different slant on the subject but I have found that getting into the 35% plane (Sukhoi) has made me enjoy the 28% plane (New Extra) a lot more. For me the Sukhoi is simply the best plane that I have ever flown mostly due to a lot of things others have said. Bigger, slower, presents better, etc. But one of the things I didn't count on was how much it allowed me to "push my skills" while flying the Extra. The Extra was already at the top of my hanger list but when I added the 35% it let me cut loose a little more when flying the Extra. Maybe the knee knocking was a little less knowing that the extra wasn't the most expensive thing I had in my hanger -- I don't know for sure. But what it did do for me was let me push the Extra more and learn more while flying it and that in turn translated to better flying skills all around and it is really showing up when I fly my 35% Sukhoi.

RE: 28% vs 33-35% airframes
 

Silversurfer has it right. It is a cost of admission so to speak.

When you start assembling larger planes while trying to save money you can end up not liking it's overall handling upo to and inlcuding destroying the plane. I've seen this a lot with people going into GS where I fly. They take the bare minimum servo required and then try to fly 3D and are disapointed.

I've done quite a bit of comparison, mainly with props and I can tell you the information that can be gleaned from online forums can be a real cost saver which means you will not have to go through a lot of testing on your own. You just have to learn what to listen too, how to decide on what's best that suits how you fly hen assemble/build accordingly.

I for one like overkill and redundancy. On my 33% I'm a bit shy in the power department but it's nothing I cannot deal with. Now I'm redundant on everything electrical possible and way overkill on the servos but I like knowing I have positive control whenever I need it.

RE: 28% vs 33-35% airframes
 

Funny how it always happens that way:D In stepping up to a higher level the previous one gets pushed harder, and your skills and ability rise accordingly.

RE: 28% vs 33-35% airframes
 

Exactly :D That is exactly why I'm comfortable with running my 80XI in a 22lb plane. It's not balastic power by any means but just enough with a little bit of exta if I need it. I feel my skills can deal with it just fine.

Then I go back and break out my 27% Cap232 and fly the livin' snot out of it and I can remember a year ago it making me nervous. Now I've gotten used to bigger stuff I'm not near as nervous and defintely the nervousness does not last as long.

RE: 28% vs 33-35% airframes
 

you assume much

You only need one aileron servo on a 33%er and i have felt the power of an "old " zdz 80 on a 24 pound plane and it is impressive.

So the only thing on the plane used would be the engine or you can spend the extra 300 and get new its all up to ya.

RE: 28% vs 33-35% airframes
 

With my suggested setup i will have my 33%er flying early summer and i will show you how it 3Ds.

RE: 28% vs 33-35% airframes
 

Now now now, let's not get into a war here

Anyway, my 33% can beat up your 33% anyday NAH NAH NAH!!!! ;):D