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Can't start YS engines

Old 09-24-2007, 06:58 PM
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glover1482
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Default Can't start YS engines

I recently purchased my first pair of glow engines to go on a couple of profile models from OMP. I've browsed this forum for YS startup procedures and have attempted to follow them.

I have been able to successfully start the YS-110 about 10 times (and had successful model flights), but the YS-63 has never started for me and the YS-110 will no longer start consistently.

The symptoms are similar. Tank is filled and pressurized with ten throttle off propeller turns followed by ten wide open throttle propeller turns. Throttle is set to about 1/4 then prop is turned all the way back from compression point and glow driver and starter applied. One or two things occur. Firstly the engine will cycle and never indicate fireing. Secondly the engine will fire when the first compression is hit resulting in either a complete stop against the compression or maybe it's attempting to start backwards and fails at that also.

I observe that the tank is pressurized, fuel is expelled from the air intake and the muffler. The test function on my current glow driver indicates two amps going to the glow plug.

When the YS-110 was first started using this sequence, it immediately began to run. One fire and it was off and running. I had issues with the YS-110 throwing off glow drivers with attached battery and changed to glow drivers with remote battery. The only early issues with the YS-110 was that I often could not get my starter to overcome the engines compression. I'm now using a Sullivan Dynatron starter driven by the battery in my pick-em-me-up.

I'm using the same gallon of YS20-20 fuel (mostly gone now). I've tried multiple glow igniters. I've tried multiple starters and starter cones. I've tried multiple batteries. This is really frustrating. (I could have purchased another 50cc gasoline engine with the funds I've applied to glow engine startup equipment.)

What causes the engine to cycle without ever fireing?

What causes the compression to be so great that I can't overcome it with white knuckles and bulging forearms?

Thanks for reading and commenting, as I really would like to get in some flights before the notorious Oregons rains start, Glover
Old 09-24-2007, 07:32 PM
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Troy Newman
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Default RE: Can't start YS engines

I think the engine are flooded. You should not need to prime them in a normal situation. Since the starter is having such a hard time turning them over I would bet they are flooded.

You don't need to put 10 turns with the engine at idle then 10 turns with it at full throttle before trying to start it.


To unflood the engine....remove the glow plug and washer from the engine ...remove and plug the pickup fuel line....or pinch it with hemostats.

Then spin the starter with the engine upside down....this will eject all the excess fuel from on top of the piston.

Another option is the temps are probably cooler. It could be that the oil has gelled up in the regulator housing...You can flush this out with raw fuel pumped through the regulator from both sides...Also remove the HS needle and pump a small amount of raw fuel through the needle seat from the fuel line side. Any gelled up oil or dirt and debris will flush right out. Attach all the fuel lines and start it.

Another option is a fueling syringe...poull the fuel line off the carb at the needle assembly and suck fuel through the regulator and into the syringe....this will work well and help get raw fuel through the regulator assembly

To prevent this cold temp gel problem run the engine dry at the end of the day....This is done by draining all the fuel and starting it at idle only...let it idle until it quits...then start it again and again until the engine will not even pop. Then its ready to store.

After thinking of this too...are you using any kind of afterun oil. If you are it needs to be 100% synthetic oil not petroleum products at all. The petroleum products will damage the silicone parts in the regulator. Also too much afterun oil will lock the engine up and it will not pop...one reason is it will fowl the glow plug and the plug won't heat properly with a load of oil sitting on top of it.

Yes you need a good glow drive that puts about 2amps to the plug...next is you need a good starter. A 12V will work but a 14.4 system is very good and can overcome the higher compression.....In your case its "hydro Locked up" I think not a high compression situation.


Troy Newman
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Old 09-24-2007, 09:43 PM
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glover1482
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Default RE: Can't start YS engines

No after-run oil has been used, and definitely not on the YS-63 since it never has run. I did perform an end of day burn out of existing fuel on the YS-110. In fact it was only after that activity that my first big start issue occured. Although basd upon your comments, most likely I was just lucky on some days and the engine was starting in spite of the hydra-locks I've most likely been creating.

I'll follow your suggestions and try to purge both engines of existing fuel.

Then the next time I attempt to start them, I'll simply fill the tank and apply glow driver and starter without any pre-startup turn-over of the engines.

I know better than to believe all of the suggestions I come across on the web. The way these engines drip fuel, one would think that they were rogue bull elephants during the rut. But this being my first glow experience, I thought it must be normal (since I have found multiple suggestions about pressurizing the tank and primeing the carb).

Thanks for your thoughtful suggestions... maybe I'll actually get to aimlessly poke holes in the sky tomorrow. I just love it when the pointy end of my toy airplanes make loud noises (that is the non-sailplane ones).

Fly safe, Glover
Old 09-27-2007, 11:00 PM
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Default RE: Can't start YS engines

Most definitely I was flooding both engines.

However the YS-63 would start and then only run at an idle. Any additional throttle input would immediately kill the engine. I messed around with the pressure adjustment (screwed it in 1/8 turn at a time), and eventually I was able to get the engine to run at all throttle settings. I have also adjusted the HS and LS settings. Tomorrow I need to make a simulation flight to develop trust in the engine, as I had a "dead stick" landing on my second short flight. I prefer to "start and fly", but "dead stick landings" dampen my enthusiasm for adventure (and break my toy airplanes).

After further adjustment in my garage, the YS-63 appears to idle reliably at about 2K, holds reasonably steady at about 4K with good transition to just short of 10K with some messy exhaust output. I'm running an APC 14x4 prop and assume that following break-in I'll be getting an RPM in the advertised range.

Now that my adventure with the YS-63 is showing definite progress, I'll now be more confident in seeing if I can get the YS-110 to have a more reliable low speed operation. After all, patiently turning a few screws on an engine is not overly difficult, but I do look forward to learning why I get the results I do from each change that I make. Until then... "The Devil hates a coward", so I'll merrily be turning screws on these engines and hopeing for good results.

Fly safe, Glover
Old 09-28-2007, 06:11 AM
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Default RE: Can't start YS engines

Haven't played with a 63, but I'll offer a couple of thoughts on the 110 since I do have those...

These little engines really do run better on 30% nitro content fuel. More RPM on top and a better low speed operation as well. By better I mean they'll idle slower and more smoothly. This was important to me as my model would taxi off if the idle RPM is too high.

On merrily turning screws, I'm guessing you're refering to the needle valve, regulator and idle air bleed?

When you get close to the appropriate settings, be careful with how merry you get as it only takes a tiny change to make a difference when you are close. I'm talking a click or maybe two at a time on the HS needle, 1/8th to as little as 1/16th of a turn on the pressure regulator and idle air bleed screw. While changes in either the air bleed or regulator will be immediately apparent, the HS needle change will require that you wait a few seconds to see the change.

Works on my engines....
Old 09-28-2007, 01:01 PM
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glover1482
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Default RE: Can't start YS engines

My theory is that although this rookie glow engine guy would have liked for these engines to have worked perfectly right out of the box, I am not at all reluctant to turn the provided adjustment screws as long as I'm doing no harm. And other that letting it run too lean, I don't believe that taking advantage of provided engine adjustments will be harmful, more so since the engine would not run prior to those adjustment. I just wish that the instructions in the box were more user friendly, or that there were a known FAQ area on a YS web site. My instructions states in bold letters that the pressure adjustment was factory set and would not require adjustment by the end user... yea right! I really want to fly my toys, and only give things like engines the minimum of attention required to operate and maintain them. Maintaining engines will never be a passion for me.

Fly safe, Glover
Old 10-26-2007, 03:31 PM
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Default RE: Can't start YS engines

Update on my YS-63 and YS-110 engines.

Since I've gotten them adjusted, and take a few moments to tach-check those adjustments on most trips to the field; I'm very pleased with both of them. They start immediately and run what I believe to be flawlessly. Now I must admit that I rarely get either engine much over the one-half throttle position as I'm just a sport aerobatic pilot. (When I want to "spec out" a toy, I do that with one of my electric hotliners.)

This winter I plan to stick-build a kit for one of them that will be in the more extreme speed catagory... then I'll know how well I "really" like them. (Today I was "all grins" and all alone at the club field with the YS-110 in the pointy end of an OMP Fusion90. I guess that the breeze of 9-13MPH coming straight down the runway kept other flyers at their building tables.)

I greatly appreciate the advice Troy Newman and others provide to folks like me on these forums.

Fly safe, Glover
Old 10-26-2007, 10:13 PM
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Default RE: Can't start YS engines

Glad to hear you are having good luck with them.

The learning curve is not difficult with YS engines its just different. They have a different system that they work on. This makes them perform like they do but also makes it more difficult for inexperienced YS operators to get setup properly. It helps to know whats going on....and how the engine works. This is something we don't seem to have in todays world of ARFs and the radio just shut off and crashed my plane.

They can't look past the fact that something they could have done caused the loss of the model....but better yet they blast the company that made the pile they are using. Its the same deal with the engines....if it doesn't run it has to be the enigne....when in reality sometimes its operator...or the operators ritual before starting, during tuning or what ever....

Look we have all been there and a little knowledge helps. Glad we could share that knowledge here and it helped you. These engines are really cool. They perform better than anything in their class. That comes with a little different ritual set sometimes....sometimes other guys already understand what they are doing and why they are doing it.

Good luck with them.

Troy Newman
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