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New 110 with pressure problems! wont start

Old 10-28-2007, 04:23 PM
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show871
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Default New 110 with pressure problems! wont start

I just bought a ys 110 s, and now trying to get it started. I wont start, and I dont think there is crank pressure going to the tank to push fuel to the carb.

This thing is brand new and i really dont want to send it in!

Any help would be good!

I have a tetra tank, all lines have been pressure tested for leaks, and my 1 way is letting air to the tank

If i crank it for 10 sec, and pull the pressure line, no great amount of pressure comes out

If i crank it with my starter, no sig pressure comes out of the line directly from the CC

No gas is going from the reg to the carb


Thanks

871
Old 10-28-2007, 04:33 PM
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Troy Newman
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Default RE: New 110 with pressure problems! wont start

Well the pressures don't come directly from the crankcase to the tank...

So check you plumbing. It will also tend to take more than a few seconds to build the pressure needed.

Check the check valve and make sure its opening easily and properly. You can pressurize the tank yourself witha fuel pump. Try this once you have double checked the plumbing...per the diagrams.


If it is not getting fuel there is a reason and I would suspect a plumbing issue first. Next would be a a check valve not opening.....To run at idle there does not need to be any pressure in the tank. Its all brand new so you need to get some fuel to the regulator...this will wet the surfaces and allow the seals to start to seal and the pressure to build.

Troy Newman
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Old 10-28-2007, 05:01 PM
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Default RE: New 110 with pressure problems! wont start


ORIGINAL: Troy Newman

Well the pressures don't come directly from the crankcase to the tank...

So check you plumbing. It will also tend to take more than a few seconds to build the pressure needed.

Check the check valve and make sure its opening easily and properly. You can pressurize the tank yourself witha fuel pump. Try this once you have double checked the plumbing...per the diagrams.


If it is not getting fuel there is a reason and I would suspect a plumbing issue first. Next would be a a check valve not opening.....To run at idle there does not need to be any pressure in the tank. Its all brand new so you need to get some fuel to the regulator...this will wet the surfaces and allow the seals to start to seal and the pressure to build.

Troy Newman
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Thanks for your imput......plumbing is correct, and the check valve is working on off when I blow through it.

I have tried pressure with my fuel jug.

If I crank my motor for say sec......i really do not get a bunch of pressure build up in my tank either.

what should I try first??????????????

THANKS!

871
Old 10-28-2007, 05:26 PM
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Default RE: New 110 with pressure problems! wont start


ORIGINAL: show871


ORIGINAL: Troy Newman

Well the pressures don't come directly from the crankcase to the tank...

So check you plumbing. It will also tend to take more than a few seconds to build the pressure needed.

Check the check valve and make sure its opening easily and properly. You can pressurize the tank yourself witha fuel pump. Try this once you have double checked the plumbing...per the diagrams.


If it is not getting fuel there is a reason and I would suspect a plumbing issue first. Next would be a a check valve not opening.....To run at idle there does not need to be any pressure in the tank. Its all brand new so you need to get some fuel to the regulator...this will wet the surfaces and allow the seals to start to seal and the pressure to build.

Troy Newman
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Thanks for your imput......plumbing is correct, and the check valve is working on off when I blow through it.

I have tried pressure with my fuel jug.

If I crank my motor for say sec......i really do not get a bunch of pressure build up in my tank either.

what should I try first??????????????

THANKS!

871

Hi Show! I had this happen just last week....its a plumbing prob as Troy suggests.....my problem was twofold.....first the fuel tubing was pushed too far up the tetra elbows cutting the line which you couldnt "see"....and the second was the lines were getting pinched at the bulhead ....this happened after a few successful flights,so it had me scratching my head.....if you safety wired the fittings it could cut the lines also.....i just started all over with all lines cause you couldnt "see" the cuts at all wash
Old 10-28-2007, 07:20 PM
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Troy Newman
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Default RE: New 110 with pressure problems! wont start

Do you have any fueling valves? or fuel fillers like this one?


These things will leak and this could be a cause for sucking air.....


As for building pressure by cranking the engine over. The engine needs to run at about 3000-3500rpm for about 30secs before it will build enough pressure to be operating properly. Most starters don't turn the engine over this fast and if you keep the starter on for 30secs it will burn it out. The pressure doesn't build when the engine is being started. It builds once it is running and is warming up. The engine will run at 2000rpm all day long with zero pressure in the tank. This is the way the system operates. It does not require pressure to get it started it does require fuel to flow.

Are you sure the plumbing is correct. I know the first time I hooked up my 110S I mixed up the pressure and fuel supply lines. And I have been running YS engines for almsot 20years. I have installed the check valve backwards more than once as well.

So you are not going to get pressure build up by just flipping it over. It might get a little but very little. If there is pressure in the tank from the fuel pump trick then remove the fuel line at the regulator and see if it squirts it should. If it doesn't the fuel is not getting to the regulator for some reason.

Troy
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Old 10-28-2007, 09:01 PM
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Default RE: New 110 with pressure problems! wont start


ORIGINAL: Troy Newman

Do you have any fueling valves? or fuel fillers like this one?


These things will leak and this could be a cause for sucking air.....


As for building pressure by cranking the engine over. The engine needs to run at about 3000-3500rpm for about 30secs before it will build enough pressure to be operating properly. Most starters don't turn the engine over this fast and if you keep the starter on for 30secs it will burn it out. The pressure doesn't build when the engine is being started. It builds once it is running and is warming up. The engine will run at 2000rpm all day long with zero pressure in the tank. This is the way the system operates. It does not require pressure to get it started it does require fuel to flow.

Are you sure the plumbing is correct. I know the first time I hooked up my 110S I mixed up the pressure and fuel supply lines. And I have been running YS engines for almsot 20years. I have installed the check valve backwards more than once as well.

So you are not going to get pressure build up by just flipping it over. It might get a little but very little. If there is pressure in the tank from the fuel pump trick then remove the fuel line at the regulator and see if it squirts it should. If it doesn't the fuel is not getting to the regulator for some reason.

Troy

Thanks Troy

I splashed some fuel in the carb, it poped right off.....then quit in 3 sec. I re-re-re checed the one way, and pressure tested my lines and tank with a compressor, and they all held. so much I blew my stopper off my fill line.

anything???????????? I am stumped!

871
Old 10-28-2007, 09:02 PM
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Default RE: New 110 with pressure problems! wont start

I have a tetra fuel filter, and T. medium fuel line
Old 10-28-2007, 09:46 PM
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Default RE: New 110 with pressure problems! wont start

You don't need to pressurize the tank with an air compressor.

WHen you pull the line off the supply to the regulator does it squirt fuel?

This I aksed before....If it doesn't squirt fuel from this line from the tank when you pressurize the tank with ayour fuel pump its not an engine issue. Its a tank issue, a p-lumbing issue or something before it gets to the regulator.

Troy
Old 10-28-2007, 10:48 PM
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Default RE: New 110 with pressure problems! wont start


ORIGINAL: Troy Newman

You don't need to pressurize the tank with an air compressor.

WHen you pull the line off the supply to the regulator does it squirt fuel?

This I aksed before....If it doesn't squirt fuel from this line from the tank when you pressurize the tank with ayour fuel pump its not an engine issue. Its a tank issue, a p-lumbing issue or something before it gets to the regulator.

Troy
I hear ya, I just checked the actual lines, and tank for leaks with my AC. There is none

Just pulled the fuel line from the tank from the nipple on the motor, and no fuel squirt at idle or full t settings

?????

Thanks!

871
Old 10-28-2007, 11:40 PM
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Troy Newman
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Default RE: New 110 with pressure problems! wont start

I guess I need to explain this step by step as we are not communicating here very well.


What you need to do is pressurize the tank with your fuel pump. So Fill the tank up with fuel. Plug off the pressure/overfill line so that the check valve is engaged and the tank will hold pressure. Once the pressure is closed off then pump a few extra cranks on a hand pump or a couple short bursts on an electric pump. The tank should hold this pressure. Plug off your fuel dot and now the tank is under pressure.


Go to the engine

pull the line off the top of the regulator. This is the line from the tank pickup tube to the regulator. If you pressurized the tank, and this line has no squirt then you are not getting fuel to the engine. If the tank still has pressure in it then there is a blockage, you check valve in installed in the wrong line something is not correct. Are the fuel lines reversed?


With the pressure from your fuel pump in the tank.....The tank should sit under this pressure. With this pressure in the tank and no blockages and proper plumbing the fuel line from the pickup tube in the tank to the top connection on the regulator....This is the one with the arrow on it....the fuel should flow from this line at a high rate....

If it is not flowing to this point your plumbing is not correct, there is a blockage, lines are reversed or something in plumbing or tank is not correct.

This is the reason your engine is not getting any fuel. If you can get fuel to this point on the engine under pressure the only reason is your plumbing or tank is not correct! there is no other option I can think of. These engines DO NOT have pumps on them. they don't pump fuel....

The only way it can work is to regulate the pressure from the tank....If your tank has pressure the regulator has no alternative but to let it pass by.....If you can get pressure to this top fuel nipple then the regulator has nothing to regulate.

If you have pressure and fuel flow there then the regulator is likely not opening...But you have to answer the question of fuel flow to the regulator first.

Troy Newman
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Old 10-29-2007, 09:01 AM
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Default RE: New 110 with pressure problems! wont start

My plumbing and tank must be good.......the tank holds pressure, and fuel instantly shot out the fuel line when pulled.

????????

Thanks

871
Old 10-29-2007, 11:49 AM
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Default RE: New 110 with pressure problems! wont start

The the regulator must be stuck closed or have a blockage.

You may need to send it in. If the plunger is sticking in the regulator.

Richard mentioned something that he had seen a few of these. The plunger sticking in the regulator body.

Try this.

Have the tank pressurized like before and all the lines hooked up.


Now unhook the line going from the regulator to the carb. Attach you fuel pump to this line....and try to draw fuel through the regulator. It should pull something through the regulator.





If you can then the regulator is opening and allowing fuel to pass.

The next step is to take the regulator apart and look for some dirt or debris. If the plunger is sticking I'm not sure it is something you can fix. It may need to go in for warranty repair.

The next thing is to remove the HS needle and using you fuel pump pump a small amount of fuel through the line from the regulator into the carb body. This fuel should flow out the needle valve housing with the main needle removed. This will flush out the needle seat.

If you have fuel getting to the regulator, and fuel from the regulator to the HS needle it should run.




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Old 10-29-2007, 01:34 PM
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show871
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Default RE: New 110 with pressure problems! wont start

I guess I will have to send it in. I just feel kind of screwed cause the reason I spent the extra money for a ys is to avoid problems like this one. I spent $25 to next day air the thing so I could fly this weekend, now I have to send it in for repair without even running it once!

I do really appreciate your help on a sun, and hope this gets straightened out

Thanks!

871
Old 10-30-2007, 10:28 PM
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Troy Newman
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Default RE: New 110 with pressure problems! wont start

What you are saying about no fuel flowing through the regulator is pretty rare. I have not seen it much. I still believe its something with plumbing. If you sent it to YS for Service and nothing was wrong with it.....then you would be without for more time...

I know you keep saying you checked the plumbing. But this is the casue for 99.999% of the problem you describe.


Try to get a local YS guy to look it over for you. I would bet he can find something you have overlooked.

I'm not saying your wrong about the plumbing but if you send it in for service and get it back a clean bill of health is not going to help a plumbing issue.

I do hear ya that you have it correct....but this is so common...on plugging the lines up wrong or the likes.

Were you able to pull fuel through the regulator with pressure in the tank and using your fuel pump on the line from the reg to the carb. If fuel flows through here and its still not getting anything to run its a blockage in the needle valve seat...So remove the HS need and pump fuel through the line that connects to the carb. This will flush the passages in the carba nd needle valve seat.

Troy Newman
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Old 10-31-2007, 12:32 PM
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Default RE: New 110 with pressure problems! wont start

yea, with my tank pressurized and fuel to the regulator....none would come out the other end of the reg to the carb. a TINY bit at most

I did have a local ys guy look at it, and he determined no pressure was coming out of the crankcase nipple

He has been out to NV office, he knows his stuff

871

Old 10-31-2007, 05:43 PM
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Troy Newman
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Default RE: New 110 with pressure problems! wont start

I guess that means it needs ot go in. Sorry about that.

I know it can be frustrating.

However Richard can get it fixed up for you.

Troy
Old 10-31-2007, 06:42 PM
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Default RE: New 110 with pressure problems! wont start

Thanks Troy for your help

I just want to fly!!!!!!!!!!!!

871

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