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YS FZ-110- FZ-110-S difference

Old 03-03-2008, 07:22 PM
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smh20502
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Default YS FZ-110- FZ-110-S difference

I'm hoping that I can get some help here on an engine I just purchased. I just got the YS-FZ 110, but I now see that there is a newer version out (S).
Is there a significant difference between the older FZ110 and the S version?

Can the older version be converted to the newer version?

What is the power difference between the two?

I paid 275 for the FZ-110 (only 1 tank of 320cc 20%) run through it...did I get screwed or reasonably save a few bucks?


Old 03-03-2008, 07:54 PM
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Jimmy Skids
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Default RE: YS FZ-110- FZ-110-S difference

I have both motors and the 100s is definitly a different beast. When they changed from the FZ to the S there was a few internal and external changes made. The regulator was moved from the case to an exterior version on the push rods. Inside the motor received a ringed crank and a different bearing for starters. The S will put out about 300 RPM more on the same size prop as the FZ.

As for the money saved question. That depends on how this one runs. If you have no problems that require a warranty return then you should be in OK shape. However if you need to send the motor in without warranty then the savings will be gone. Personally I would opt for the new S from Central or Chief with warranty.

Hope this helps.

Jimmy Skids
Old 03-03-2008, 11:50 PM
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Troy Newman
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Default RE: YS FZ-110- FZ-110-S difference

As Jimmy Skids stated the engines are similar.

The 110S is an improved version but it doesn't mean the older version is for the garbage bin.

There are some significant differences and no the older version can't really be updated to the newer version. The number of parts changed and the price for those parts are just not worth the price.

The older version is still only outperformed by the 110S in the class of engines. The older version is very comparable to the Saito 125 and the OS 120 2 stroke. The newer 110S has the power of many of the older YS 120's

If you were to buy a new engine I would say the newer version would be a better buy for the money. Given the price new of the new engine is just a few dollars more. However what you paid is a pretty good deal assuming that the seller was honest with you. The difference between the two is just one size prop maybe two sizes...

You got the engine for about $100 off the going rate so if it was only run a little and not screwed up you are doing pretty good.

Troy Newman
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Old 03-04-2008, 01:21 PM
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Default RE: YS FZ-110- FZ-110-S difference

Hey, Troy.

Recently I bought the S version.

I just want to know if I can use a fuel tank on CG with the 110 FZ-S, like the pic shows.

And, for a Funtana 100 X, can you recomend an APC 16x4W for this engine?

Thank you!
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Old 03-04-2008, 02:25 PM
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Default RE: YS FZ-110- FZ-110-S difference

Another question: Do you think is better install this engine inverted or side mount?
Old 03-04-2008, 02:57 PM
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Troy Newman
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Default RE: YS FZ-110- FZ-110-S difference

Yes that is fine.

The YS engines that are pressurized have no trouble with the tank this far back.

Now I would recommend running the engine for a few minutes and checking you tank mounting. If you have that wire tie holding the tank in place.....

The YS engines will pressurize the tank to between 6 and 8psi. If the tank is a typical Arf quality...it could expand quite a bit. This being said I have a Showtime 90 from Han9 and the stock tank was fine...no problems. However I didn't mount it the way you did.


If the tank expands it could be possible that the tank could break the tie wrap....and possibly break the wood it is mounted to.


You should never wire tie a fuel tank into a model, same goes for radio equipment. Wire ties have a place and holding battery packs to a airframe, or fuel tanks is not one of them in my opinion.


The tank should be mounted on good foam rubber to prevent foaming in the tank and from vibration. I tend to use good foam rubber the white rubbery kind that Dubro sells. I then mount the tank in front and aft with a couple loops of Velcro. A little stick back Velcro on the tank in a cleaned area will grip the Velcro straps so the tank doesn't slide out from under the loops. The foam rubber will give a little if the tank expands a bunch...and the dual loops of Velcro will help keep the tank from splitting in the middle from a point load as it expands.

In your model if the tank expands too much it may just split open. The wire tie has near zero give and it is holding the tank right in the middle. in the spot the tank is most likely to puff up when it pressurizes...It could cause it to fail at this point.

I'm not saying it will happen...just that it might with that configuration.


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Old 03-04-2008, 03:08 PM
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Default RE: YS FZ-110- FZ-110-S difference

Hey Troy.

Thank you very much for your explanation.

I don't knew this tie wrap problems. It's really good to know that right now, cause I don't have any experience with Y.S. engines and I'm planning to fly it this weekend.

So, you probalby saved my plane!!!!!!!

I will follow your advices and get the fuel tank tire wrap out.

Thank you very much!

And what you can tell me about the engine position? Inverted can make me get tune problems or is ok?
Old 03-04-2008, 06:34 PM
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Default RE: YS FZ-110- FZ-110-S difference

Engine inverted is not an issue with YS engines.

On normal Carberators the inverted engine puts the carb lower than the tank. This can cause some flooding issues. Becasue YS engines don't suck fuel from the tank they don't have this problem. The fuel tank is under pressure and force feeds the engine fuel. The regulator assembly controls the flow of fuel based on the pressure in the tank. When the regulator closes it doesn't allow any fuel to flow. So it can't get the flooding problems of a normal carberator style engine while inverted.

In fact YS engines don't really care if they are inverted or not.

There is one slight mixture change. When the engine is upright its possible for the engine to be too rich and not load up and quit. Yet when inverted this extra too rich setting can cause the engine to load up easier....The difference is very slight...but if you set the mixture properly the engine will not care if its upright or inverted.


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Old 03-05-2008, 11:18 AM
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Default RE: YS FZ-110- FZ-110-S difference

Troy, I thank you very much for your attention.

I have on more question. Really sorry to bother you.

I have in hands the engine's manual and the fuel line setup. Can I use a fuel dot between the tank and the check valve. I planing to use Slimline Glow Excel Fueler. http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXEXX1


Can I do it?

I made a really bad draw of my idea, but you can get my poit with it.

Thank you one more time!
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Old 03-05-2008, 01:04 PM
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Default RE: YS FZ-110- FZ-110-S difference

You are going to need two fuel dots. One as you show to relieve the pressure from the tank and one between the tank and the fuel filter for filling. You'll not be able to fill the tank without a pressure release as there is not open vent as with other types of engines.

Blessings, Terry
Old 03-05-2008, 01:05 PM
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Troy Newman
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Default RE: YS FZ-110- FZ-110-S difference

You don't want to use those kinds of devices.

If they leak air you will have major problems. You will not know they are leaking and you will be fighting problems with your engine that are not the engines fault.

So to sum it up the fuel dot is a positive you know its closed type of thing. The fuel filler devices have o-rings and are designed to seal...but what happens if they fail...you won't know it and then are stuck.


The other thing is the fueler devices are not always the best at maintaining the pressure in the tank. Sometimes they won't leak air into the system but pressure out of the system. A plug in the fuel line won't do that.


So they are not recommended. In fact I discourage people away from them. There are many brands and many different designs. My opinion is they all provide the possibility of a failure and as a result not worth the effort.

Troy Newman
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Old 03-05-2008, 01:30 PM
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Default RE: YS FZ-110- FZ-110-S difference

Thank you guys, for the answers.

Troy, I see it. But based on you experience, there something more easy to help me filling then?

Cause, if I don't use nothing, I will need to take off the turtle deck every time to fill the plane. This is a boring thing and this can also mess the covering around the deck bolts...
Old 03-05-2008, 01:40 PM
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Troy Newman
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Default RE: YS FZ-110- FZ-110-S difference

Put fuel dots in the side of the model.

The "dots" are plugs that fit flush to the side of the fuse. There si a socket that mounts in the fuse, and the plug snaps into the socket to hold it secure.


http://www.centralhobbies.com/Fuel/f...s/tetdots.html

you use 2 dots....one for the pressure line and one for the fuel pickup line.


Its also inportant with the YS engines to be able to vent the tank before fueling and after flying. The slimline fuel filler doesn't allow this. The tank will have 6-9psi in it. This willshoot fuel about 10Ft froma normal medium size fuel line. The use of the Dots one on each side as shown the Central Hobbies website will allow you to relieve the pressure and fuel it up. Easily from the outside of the model.

http://www.centralhobbies.com/instructional/lines.html


Troy Newman
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Old 03-05-2008, 02:43 PM
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Default RE: YS FZ-110- FZ-110-S difference

Troy, thank you. Now I understood what you and Still4given are saying.

The Slimline device are not a fuel dot properly, not like that you told me is good for Y.S.

Here in Brazil I will just can get the Hangar 9 one, but I think is ok. It is just the same things that you showed me from Central Hobbies site.

http://www.horizonhobby.com/Products...?ProdID=HAN115

Ok. No more doubts for me. You guys solved it all.

Thank you again.
Old 03-05-2008, 03:05 PM
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Default RE: YS FZ-110- FZ-110-S difference

The Han9 versions are the same idea as the original ones from Central Hobbies. You need (2) of them. The other factor is the Han9 one comes with a plastic "T" and these will work. However over time the plastic will break down with the glow fuel. It will become hard and brittle and the "T" will crack. So keep an eye on the "T" fitting and I would say replace it about once a year or so before it fails.

I use the Aluminum T's from Tettra that Central Hobbies sells and these will never wear out.

Troy Newman
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Old 03-06-2008, 06:43 PM
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Default RE: YS FZ-110- FZ-110-S difference

Hey Troy,

Here goes some pics of my tank setup. Everything just like you told me.

Sorry my ignorance, but it is my first Y.S. Today I installed a prop and turned it without a ni-starter, just to hear how it flips. My engine has a sound like another four stroke (like an O.S.) when you turn this engines with your finger closing the muffler way out. A sound very "closed" without that normal "pop pop". Very strange to me.

Is that alright?


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Old 03-06-2008, 08:11 PM
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Default RE: YS FZ-110- FZ-110-S difference

Its fine...don't be flipping it over and over without any fuel and or oil in it.

Any oil added should be very minimal or it will difficult to start the first time and all oil used should be 100% synthetic. There seems to be a rash of Marvel Mystery oil users out there. For some reason they are choosing this oil for their engines it is NOT to be used in YS engines as it is NOT synthetic oil. It has petroleum products in it.


Continued turning and flipping of the engine without fuel and or oil it can cause excessive wear on the parts before they are even run.

The engine is being turned without lubrication this is not good for it.

Troy Newman
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Old 03-06-2008, 11:10 PM
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Default RE: YS FZ-110- FZ-110-S difference

Just an update.

My YS-110FZ just came in, a little sooner I might add. Guess I get to go to the LHS and get some running gear (Oh darn, I hate to do that) but just like my wife says ("got to have accessories!")

Anyway, I couldn't be happier. Absolutely no sign of use what so ever. It appears that the guy I got it from was actually honest in the add. From what I can tell he could have sent it to me as unused. The thing still had the orig. plastic wrap, box, tools etc.


I thought that I was going to get a test stand built this weekend but I have work and a fishing trip so it will wait till next week.

I was told only one 300CC tank of 20% was run through...haven't gone through the instructions but do want some input on break-in. Should I go ahead and run another couple tanks, jockey the throttle a little then adjust the tappets?

keep ya'll posted.

Sean
Old 04-05-2008, 11:30 PM
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Default RE: YS FZ-110- FZ-110-S difference

Hi Troy.

I started using my 110 FZ-S with good results, but now my engine is loosing power.

At first, my plane was climbing like a rocket, but now the engine barely can get it out from hover. Today I crashed my Funtana, cause the engine could't take it out.

I started using a 16x6 prop, but now I am using a 16X4W to keep the RPM. After each weekend the things goes worst.

My fuel is Cool Power 20x20.

Tomorrow I will take the cowl out to try to tune the engine and I want to ask you some advice about what is happening and what to do.

I want to re-tune the engine from zero, and I want to ask you if you know some standard position of Low, Hi speed and regulator bolts to help me.

I don't have any experience about how to tune this kind of engine.

Thank you.

Eduardo
Old 04-06-2008, 01:54 AM
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Default RE: YS FZ-110- FZ-110-S difference

The manual for the 110S has some basic starting points for the mixture adjustments. These will not be where the engine ends up running but it will be a good starting point.

The High Speed Needle starting point should be about 2 turns from fully close. This is likely too rich...should end up about 1.5 turns but could be open further than 2 turns depending on your situation and conditions.

Regulator on the 110S is usually going to end up about 1 turn inside of flush with the regulator body.

Air bleed Idle mixture screw about 2.5 to 3 turns open from fully closed. This is for the the 110S the throttle barrel was changed a little most YS engines with the air bleed screw the starting point is about 1.5 turns open.


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Old 04-06-2008, 05:25 PM
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Default RE: YS FZ-110- FZ-110-S difference

Hi Troy.

Thank you for the answer.

Well, I tried all day to tune my Y.S., but I didn't get a good result.

I got a good power at the high speed, but the idle is really bad. I can't make the idle works equilibrated. When I put full throttle and push the stick back, the engine takes a long time to down to the low speed and when it happens, it's really fast and the engines dies. I tried to trim in the RX, but dind't work.

It seems my engine is also overheating (but I am working without the cowl) and I noticed too some air bubles in the regulator-carburator line.

In my opinion the engine is taking a long time to go from low to high speed too.

The problem is I tried all bolts position and nothing seemed to make a huge difference. So, I don't know what to do anymore.

Maybe you has some opinion about that.

Thank you.

Eduardo
Old 04-06-2008, 07:46 PM
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Default RE: YS FZ-110- FZ-110-S difference

If the engine doesn't drop back into an idle like you describe where it takes a long time to come back its way TOO LEAN...Likely its too lean on the regulator adjustment. The slow spool down is a sign of really really lean. if the regulator is very lean it will not idle very well and will just cut off. Also the idle mixture adjustment screw will not work because the engine will not idle down low enough for it to even be in its range. You have to be idling at 2000rpm in order for the idle adjustment screw to work. Above that rpm the regulator is doing the work. You are definitely too lean.

This will cause the engine to get very hot and then no matter what you do it will not set properly.

You should only spend about 4-5 mins at a time trying to set the engine as the temps on the ground will get too hot and affect the settings.


All I can say is reference these instructions on how to set the mixtures properly. Do it in the order that I suggest and the way I suggest it. This will get you mixture settings correct. The small air bubbles you saw were likely from over heating the engine. Continued abuse like this and it can damage the engine. I understand you are trying to get it set...but if it has been damaged it will be even harder and probably impossible to set properly.

Go back to factory settings and start over. Keep track of the changes you make...so you can go back. Your instructions will have the factory settings....The regulator screw should be about flush to about 1 turn inside of flush with the regulator body. This is the because it is a "S" version. If its not an S version then the regulator should start out at flush with the case.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_7303335/tm.htm

This was written for a 63... but the settings are the same for the 110 and all YS engines except the DZ style.

The target rpm you want is about 9200-9500 on the 110S...If you put too much prop on it...the result is it will overheat.


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Old 04-06-2008, 08:19 PM
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Default RE: YS FZ-110- FZ-110-S difference

Hi Troy.

Thank you very much!

Well, I am very worried right now, because I think, based on your coments, I gone too far today trying to set it. What kind of damage I can already get? What signal of damage I have to pay attention?

I am thinking to replace the gaskets.

I will try a little more in the next weekend, following your advices.

I am really sorry to bother you about that!


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