fireman7875

My Feedback: (7)

I haven't heard anyone say anything about it but has anyone noticed that Small Talk in FM has become another electric flight column. I thought there already was one of those....called....oh yeah, Electric Flight! Small Talk used to be my favorite column but electric airplanes are not nearly everything that ST is all about. Additionally, it was pretty much the only column in ANY magazine that focused on small glow engine powered aircraft. Now we don't have anything. Leave the electric stuff for the electric column. I'm sure that Mr. Marshall is a dedicated modeler but I wish that he bring Small Talk back to what it was. This is just my opinion. I'm sure there are many out there who love the new focus on electric but no matter how I have tried to like it, electric planes just don't do it for me! Anybody else?

Brian

build light

I guess it is just a sign of the times. There is a great deal of interest in electric these days and I guess that may be the reason.

This must be our cue to write to the editor and voice our opinion of the matter. If enough input is recieved then this might change things back.

Robert

BMatthews

Or at least give the glow stuff equal time....

Of course they can only publish what folks send them. And we're all so dedicated to this forum that we probably don't take the time to send stuff to FM column writers. We could easily change that.....

build light

Now thats what I'm talkin' about!

Robert

flyinrog

My Feedback: (1)

Well here's another for you,,in FlyRC AJ Coholic didnt have an engine article in the last issue, I know its the fluffiest of fluff mags , but I thought he was very thorough in his reviews but the only thing in the mag thats glow is the planes that they are converting from glow to out runner brushless,Ive had a parkflyer or 3 but its because I didnt want to drive to the field, I'd just walk to the school yard, they're fun enough just not fast enough...When the Herr Extra was so hot they did an article on it...both glow and electric...I guess its like when one of us takes a parkflyer and puts a norvel on it,,its just that there seems to be waaay more of THEM,,the mag never mentions joining AMA or the local clubs seems they just ass/u/me everyone will do this or I guess fly at parks where no one else goes.....Rog

hfenn

I stopped sunscribing when Randy Randolph passed. I think Flying Models is still the best magazine out there for model airplane builders of all types. Altough I fly mostly R/C, I dabble in CL and FF. No offense to Mr. Marshall because I believe he is a fine modeler and writer, but Randy really had his finger on the pulse of the body of SMALL model builders and flyers!

fireman7875

My Feedback: (7)

I agree with all of you. I was really hoping Dickeybird would take over Small Talk! I don't necessarily have a problem with electrics. I just have a problem with the fact that the magazines and manufacturers seem to think that's all that matter anymore! I'm SICK of being force fed electrics and electric conversions! Who thinks there's some big secret to hanging a brushless motor on the nose of an Ultra Stik?!? WOW, that's real modeling!!![:@][:@]

Sensing my frustration?

Brian

Raymond LeFlyr

My Feedback: (2)

Brian et al,

Re: Small (Glow) Talk. Boy I can see that I'm going to have to be very careful about what I say and make sure it comes across right. In fact, I'll bet I just delete this instead of hitting 'send' but the fact is that I'm gonna write down my thoughts more to clarify what I think - for me - than for youse-all (since I doubt that any of you really care what the old fat guy thinks anyway).

I've been flying small R/C models since the mid 70s. I love 'em. I'm sure I've built (and broke) dozens and dozens. If I had to guess what small models I would build in the next ten years - I'd bet 87.3% would be Ken Willard designs or others of that era. My question to me then is, what could I read in a magazine (or the Internet) that would be likely to add to my knowledge or opinions about the small glow powered models I'm likely to build? Answer, not much. That's not to say that my 'to do' list doesn't include many small glow and diesel-powered models. Just that there's not likely to be many surprises for me when I build and fly 'em.

However, I have tried and abandoned electric power three times since I bought my first Astro 05 'can' motor 25 - 30 years ago. But in this past year I have 'discovered' and revel in small brushless motors and 2 and 3-cell li-po batteries and fan fold foam. Armed with this equipment I can do things with a model airplane that I never considered or even heard of before - EVERY TIME I go to fly at the AMA sanctioned club field - or my FRONT YARD - AND these things don't break or are so easy to repair or replace that's ridiculous. So, the next question I ask myself - as a lover of small models - is, do I want to read about things and stuff I already know OR do I want to learn more about the most exciting aspect of modelling that's happened (to/for me) in the past two or three decades? Hold on, let me think about it for a while. I'll get back to you.

Well, if the magazine editors of new and old (remember RCM?) publications encourage their columnists to pander to the new products (and sources of revenue) - well, I guess I can understand it. And by darn, keep it coming 'cuz I want more of this stuff!!!

Ok, here I am at the point where I hit 'delete' or 'send'. . . .

. . . . Lucky for youse-all (?) I decided that I am grown up enough to take it. Flame away, but remember no matter what names you call me, I will always think of youse-all as my "internet friends".

build light

Most of us have learned a great deal already agreed. Yet it good to hear about new products, sources and mostly exploits of others sharing this kind of flying. And yes there is still some more we can learn. I am not done with my learning yet

Speaking of products, that is another area of consideration. Advertisers. Are there enough companies and hobby shops advertising "small stuff"? I personally might have a problem publishing about a niche of the hobby if I did not have payng advertisers supporting that niche. How many ads do you see these days offering half A kits? Motors? Glowpugs, starters, tools and lets not forget 1/2 A tanks or finishing supplies? All this counts as well I am sure.

Robert

gcb

Raymond,

What you say is true...BUT...what about the new guy out there who would like to try wet, but has no idea how to convert his electrical stuff (and has not found this site ). There are LOTS of Norvels and Coxes out there. Someone has to be using them. For these and others interested on IC engines, there should be information.

Magazine writers can't make all this stuff up. How many SHARE their thoughts with a magazine column. Lets face it, Randy Randolph is a tough act to follow. He had lots of interest and lots of friends.

To be fair to Mr. Marshall, we should support him. I confess that I have NEVER submitted anything to a mag. How about you guys? If no one submits, his info will likely come from what is happening in his local area.

From what I've read, Randy had, among others, Joe Wagner to share his thoughts and hash things over with. They even started SMALLnet. That kind of friendship sparks interest in both persons.

BTW, I just renewed my subscription to Flying Models.

(Step off soapbox)

George

Tim Wiltse-RCU

Speaking of SMALLnet what happened to it? Joe got it up and running for a couple of months but then ..nothing again.

Later,
Tim

gcb

My guess is the same problem...no input.

George

Raymond LeFlyr

My Feedback: (2)

George,

You brought up the question of new flyers. Here's a question for you; what Cox or Norvel-powered true beginner models are out there? Do you think they are better for new flyers than one of the many cheap, survivable, pretty good flying electric pusher jobs out there? In the past year I've seen at least four, successful, electric beginner models flown at our AMA-insured field. Wanna know how many SUCCESSFUL 1/2A beginner models - flown by beginners - I've seen at club fields in the past decade?

Again, don't get me wrong, I love 'em (OK some of 'em). But sometimes I wonder how much ultimate damage to our hobby was done by the millions of plastic 1/2A products marketed at beginners and children.

fireman7875

My Feedback: (7)

Raymond: Point well taken. I want to read about things I don't already know too. I just find it hard to believe that I already know everything about 1/2a flying. By the way, sir, you always have my respect! ...old fat guy, my butt!

I guess the bottom line for me is that at 30 years of age I suppose I am just old and set my ways. I grew up with glow fuel and didn't know anything different. I'm just generally unhappy about the trend away from glow, away from kits and scatch building and away from good ol' sport flying! Why does DOES everything have to hover, anyway? I love the hobby but I don't want to see new trends push out the elements that truly made this hobby so great!

...oh gosh...I just realized I must be an old fat guy myself!

Brian

Tim Wiltse-RCU

Thanks Raymond and Brian....thanks alot you old fat guys I too just realized that I have gained 20 pounds in the last 3 months and if Brian is calling himself old at 30 then at almost 32 I must be about over the hill!!!! Add me to your list then of old fat dudes[X(]

I feel Brian's pain about getting electric stuff shoved down my throat everytime I open a model mag. but on the other hand the mags are going to highlight what the big trends are. Sad to say even with the growth in 1/2a over the last few years the growth from the e-powered stuff is pushing us under the rug.

Like one of the other guys has already said when was the last time one of us sent something into the mags, be it a letter or a picture of our lastest 1/2a projects? Sad I have always wanted to but never have. Maybe the mags don't know we are still out here going strong. After I get my design contest plane finished I am going to make sure I get a couple good pictures and send them into the mags. Heck we all should make them sit up and take notice of what we are doing out here. DickyBird has been busy getting published in FlyingModels heck the bulk of the 1/2a stuff has come from him and his hard work. Stuff like CP's GZ powered SWR, Fora powered Stang', Patrick's DNU and little 7oz Delta w/Cox reedie, my Sniper DR .049 conversion, the RCU Design Contest these are all great things that other than those of us on this forum no one else even knows happens. Remember not everyone has the internet. I think I forget that too.

With that I challange everyone of you guys that the next time you build something take the time to get a few pictures and write a note to go with them and mail them into FM. What's the worse they are going to do ..not print them..ok maybe but at least they will know we are out here...pushing 1/2a to the limits!!!!

Later,
Tim

DICKEYBIRD

Frank actually did offer it to me but after a couple weeks tossing & turning over it I had to turn him down. I just plain don't have enough spare time and energy to take on another job. If I make it through to retirement, I would maybe give it a stab but by then, 1/2A glow will probably be extinct.[]

You guys really should take some pictures and sharpen up the old word-processor. I'll bet you a blown up lipo that Larry will put in ANY interesting stuff you send him. Send him some clear 3 megapixel or better .jpeg images and your MS Word text on a CD and he'll use it. Interesting models and tips are always interesting, regardless of what turns the prop!

If anyone wants to get involved and needs any help with the process, just ask away, I'll be glad to help.

cyclops2

All I know is what I see at club fields. Adults of all ages so wrapped up in THEIR flight time that they have no time for anyone else, unless it is to talk.
I have yet to see someone ask a stranger . " Would the 2 of you like to try it ? "

flybug

Well I guess some one has to say it and since I'm the new guy to the hobby, I will say it. Not all of us has been in this hobby for as long as we can go back in memory, so what may appear old and boring to some, to others is just fresh and exciting news. To many new comers as my self, flying model airplanes translate to flying small (or not so small) devices with looks as close to the full size airplanes and I travel a lot via air and to me they are still required to have fuel in order to fly, so guess what my models have...you got it, a fuel tank and an engine, turst me I have no problem with electrics... to each his own my problem is with all these magazines out there bloated with articles and publicity on the subject and non-reflecting what I really subscribed for. If my subscription was free well I guess I have no grounds for feeling outcast and dicriminated against, but I think that the courtesy should be extended to all subscribers. Lucky me I found this forum, but what about the one who didn't, how will they know about engines, 1/2A, etc. Yes electrics are great for some, but for others glow engines are it, and there should be a balance. I'm sure the amount of electric fans out there is on the rise but until Cox, Norvel, OS, Saito, et al start to worry or vanish my main course will be glow and I expect to see articles in magazines I subscribe to on the subject. Again what is old for you may be very brand new to me, what may be garbage to you may just be my treasure. Both engine/electric power are new for me so the excitment is there I fly both and have no problem, but I dare not refer to stuff being outdated and boring, if we look hard enough I'm sure there is something new to learn. I guess if we already know it all, isn't the greatest excitment in teaching/sharing that knowledge? Well to me that is proof of knowledge when it can be passed on and it also ensures that this field won't end with my ending. Well I can go on and on but let me leave this at this point (to be continued).

I'm also sending letters to the editors.

propbuster

My Feedback: (1)

For me, I guess growing up messing around with 1/2a glow stuff, and hanging out with my Dad when he flew RC, keeps me into the glow powered genre. Unlike a lot of newcomers to the hobby, fiddling around with a finiky Cox engine and getting oilily doesn't bother me at all. It's all part of it's charm. Electric motors are clean, quieter and take no special skills or knowledge to operate. I think a lot of people these days feel like my wife, who is interested in learning to fly, but doesn't want to hassel with dangerous, greasy and noisey planes. Just look at the ARF market, to me building is half the fun, to a lot of folks, it's a skill they don't have the time or desire to learn and just want to fly. That's okay by me, but I guess I'm a purist (old timer) at heart.

KidEpoxy

I'm too poor to go electric again
Even without the brushless (yes, some people still fly with brushes) its a chunk of bills for the Motor & ESC, another Billchunk for the batteries (you gonna get 2 sets for annother chunk right?), chunk #3 for the Charger
Vs
$7 surestart.... sure there is the accessorie, but thats a Half Billchunk engine with a chunk of accessories
or $50 Norvel $60 GP42 instead of big KW brushless systems

I'm delivering pizza now, I cant afford electrics, but seems all I see are big 4stroke arfs & brushless planes that I cant buy.

Bipe Flyer

The last one I got was #461 on Dec. 1, 2005

phuffstatler

My Feedback: (20)

I suppose SmallTalk is only catering to the larger crowd, as any magazine who wants to stay in business, and even grow is going to do. FM still has the widest audience in modeling, as they cover so much of it. FlyRC is getting fluffier by the day, from what I've seen. But, they still produce pull-out plans that could be used for glow or electric (with some know-how) and no one else is. I won't even look at MAN anymore, as those folks will produce anything that will sell ads. MA is getting much better now, and it's easier to find the content, and the content seems to be improving, too.

If memory serves, wasn't Larry Marshall mostly into FF years ago? I know many of the FF'ers have gone into small electrics (they're quiet like rubber bands), so he probably would, too. Also, if he's not receiving material from the glow crowd, he's going to assume his readers are mostly into electrics, so that's where his focus lies. Makes perfect sense to me, at least. He may or may not be much more familiar with the small electrics than glow. I don't know the guy, so these are specualtions, to be sure.

The mags are always receiving new products to check out, so when was the last time someone released a new smaller-than-.25 size engine to review? Been a while, I'm thinking.

Admittedly, it's hard to beat the ease of a small brushless setup, although you can buy several Norvels or Cox's for the same amount of money (today). I've had several small electric setups, and went back to glow, mostly because I was tired of popping out $150-250 for a single setup for one plane. Yes, you have to build the airplane more robust to handle the vibration, but that's ok too. I can't fly at the local empty field by my house now, because of the noise potential, but mostly when I go to fly, I go to hang with the other flyers and BS the day away... I also do some flying, and it's always more fun with an audience, so I go to the regular field, where I can make a lot more noise if desired...

Ok, here's where I get into trouble....

I think that 1/2A (glow) is slowly dying out. That means that we as a group had better start collecting all the goodies we can, to keep the flame alive as long as we can, or we'll be left without toys to play with, or we'll all go electric, and remember the good ol' days. We are going to have to admit to ourselves that small electric is going to win-the-day for the lazy masses, but the faithful will have to demonstrate and witness to the un-knowing by showing up and flying 1/2A in front of those folks, as it's about the only advertisement we'll get in the long run...

Am I wrong? Please tell me this is so...

phil in georgetown (and denver)

gcb

Raymond,

Do you still fly only the plane you learned on? Many (most?) flyers want to try something else later-on. I was just proposing that IC planes be among the possibilities. If it is shown in a mag (such as FM) SOME of the new people may want to try something new...be it glow, diesel, kits, build from plans, etc.

I am in no way putting down electric, I may eventually get one.

Brian, don't complain about turning 30...I did that 34 years ago ...OK, OK, I'm also fat and nearly bald. [&o].

George

flyinrog

My Feedback: (1)

Well some great points here, we collectively complain about our dying art being taken over by newer cleaner play things....someone should have taken some good digipics at the C1/2ACrew pylon race and sent them to FM along with short descriptions,,some close ups of planes etc.etc...perhaps one of our more pen friendly members should include a short write up..."get us in the books" so to speak....Raymond, my friend you are one of those people that people just meet and like right off the bat ,,I'm sure all would agree,,I sure wouldnt try this dang sharkface again had it not been for you and hfenn proving me wrong on my first attempt,,I think Tim Wiltse ("I gained 20 pounds",,please,, so now your a toothpick with a knothole) had the same problems with his sharkface...with cox ,norvel, VA phasing out the .049...maybe our vast and varied stashes of engines will be dare I say it ""priceless""..So the big question is now,,do I go .40 or brushless...oh heck no! I may add some of these,,but I stay 1/2A...Rog-47-bald-gained 14 pounds Oct-Dec..and I only had 5 pounds left to loose[&o] now its back to 19 to go ...proud member of the crew too....Rog

cyclops2

Let's see,

hand toss plane
Rubber Power
Glow
Diesel
4stroke
Ducted fan
Turbine
Electric Prop
Electric ducted fan


Yes, electric will replace all the others, just like each new other power did.

What will replace ALL of the lower cost modeling is a totally uncontrolled bunch of price gougers in the USA.
Vote those people out of office if you like freedom of choice.

Greed kills everything it touches. It shows no favorites.