Raymond LeFlyr

My Feedback: (2)

Rog,

I see that you have failed to notice that when I meet a new "small" person that I slip them a dollar bill when we shake hands. Its a trick I learned when I was trying to cover up for my Yankee-ness when I first moved to the South over 40 years ago. (Oh jeeze, I guess I'm gonna have to apologise to people of the 'other' side of the Mason/Dickson for that. When will I ever learn? I'm unworthy, I'm unworthy.)

Semi-seriously (I have trouble being seriously-serious), I feel the need to make it clear that I never intend to abandon small glow and diesel power sources. Fact is, that I love (some) of 'em.

On the other hand, them thar "lekky's" (as Vic says) are fun and challenging too (and rapidly coming down in price). So isn't the reality for us people who are attracted to less-voluminous model airplanes - that electrics provide us with even more fascinating options than we ever had before!? To quote myself, "woo hoo"! Hand me another sheet of fan fold foam.

brocja01

This thread has been really informational to read. I have just got into the 1/2a field of RC and really enjoy it. I like that fact that I can start with a $7 engine, $30 worth of balsa, $50 worth of electrics, $20 worth of covering and a little elbow grease and have a fun flying 2 channel plane that can be flown almost everywhere. It is hard to beat that price to get a plane in the air.

I do see Glow Powered 1/2a slowly going away, but it will be some time before it is completely gone. Untill then, I'm going to enjoy building these small glow powered planes, and show these guys at the field that glow 1/2a rocks!!!

Cowboy88

Hi All,

I'd be interested in sending a few 1/2A glow designs (both orignals and scaled up/down) to anyone who would use them. See my Miss 'String' Bikini in the 1/2A forum. I have many others and would love to share them. However, I am a dislexic and my writing skills are poor. But if someone was willing to edit or rewrite the articles I would love to contribute.

I am a semi retired software/hardware developer but still run my little company. But now I can pick and choose projects and I have ventured back to my roots and raisen beef. I can not do CAD but can hand draw plans and I can layout a mean PCB! Not much help here... So if there were folks willing to pick up the slack for my weaknesses, "CAD" and "Writing", I'd be more than willing to supply a new design ever month or two.

I have been designing and scratch building, and kit bashing since before Chip Hyde was in diapers. So if you 30 year olds are over the hill, I've got both feet in the grave! Thank GOD I've got my head sticking out! ;-)

Cowboy88

Oh, and for my two cents worth,

I cant see 1/2A ever completely going away. For as long as I have been in the hobby there has been cycles of publications featuring small, large, and medium sized planes. The electrics have incroached on the 1/2A market some but they wont kill it completely. Deversity is a good thing. As long as there are a couple of 1/2A engines being produces there will be 1/2A aircraft and enthusiasts. There has always been more 40 - 90 sized planes to choose from regardless of wether your are looking at kits, ARFs, or plans. However, 1/2A glow provides two things you can't get in combination in any other way. First, 1/2 IC powered planes give constant performance throughout the flight. Something none of my electricts can do! 2. 1/2A IC powered planes provide opertunities that cant be had in electrics. You simply cant get some designs to take a large geared down prop with high pitch and still get the performance you can with glow power.

There are fundimental aerodynamic and perfomance differences in the use of a high rpm, high winding small props with low pitch, and slow turning large disk, high torq high pitched props. One is not inherently better than the nother. They both have their own performance characteristics and each has a place in modeling and full scale. If you want a good slow flying plane with constant speed couple a large high pitch slow turning prop to the right airframe and you have a walk-a-bout. You'll find you'll need a bit different airframe design to get the same slow performace and constant speed from a small disk, high winding low pitch prop. If you're looking for speed, and a large speed envilope. Couple a small high winding low pitched prop to a sleek airframe and you can turn out white-lighten on every pass.

I'm not saying thay is is not possible to get a good high speed design from an eletric or that you can't get a slow put-put from a 1/2A design. But to due so will require some adjustments.

In closing, I like to re-read things I already knew about, get ideas from others, and see how they did it differently. In my 30+ years of modeling I know I have not learned it all. In fact, with each new day I learn how much I still have to learn, and revisiting the past helps remind me of the things I may have forgotten or reinforce the reasons why I do things the way I do.

There is a place for us all in this hobby. The most important thing to know is that if your particular interest is not being served at the moment, make sure you are supporting those few who do supply your niche. And make some noise so the others dont thing you've dried up and blew away. And alway, always, remember that the best thing you can do to support your hobby is to say to a stranger, would you like to try this?

propbuster

My Feedback: (1)

There may not be much in the mags about 1/2a stuff, but we have this forum and it's been the most informative, educational, and interesting thing to come along in a long while! Not to mention all the great ideas and help that come from this collective source of experts

cyclops2

Cowboy. Your last sentence says it all about the 1/2 A people compared to the big expensive .60 + size planes and people.

Bless all 1/2 A fliers, THEY ARE the life blood of modeling.[sm=thumbup.gif][sm=thumbup.gif]

peterburford

Electrics has good physics, but IC has good CHEMISTRY.
Peter

Half-A-Hec

Oh boy am I on the fence regarding electric and Internal Combustion. I have had 1/2A Cox powered planes since 1976. Mostly CL stuff and powered gliders. Then in the 90's the Norvel came along. What an awesome engine. Everything that you could ask for. Reliability, affordability, and THROTTLE! But something was still missing for me. Something in the .020 range that had a reliable throttle and run times in excess of 90 secs. I know that throttling a pewee or TD .020 is possible but the effort is often not worth it. I tried it and found out that a small 20" WS model cannot handle the extra weight of another servo for the throttle and larger tanks. Then my prayers were answered with invent of brushless and lipo combos. My Re-V-Amped has tons of power enough to go vertical, flies 5-1/2 minutes and has THROTTLE. I don't consider my Re-V-Amped in the same class as a back yard flier. It is all wood and will fly circles around any backyard flier. I guess you could call it a school yard flier. Aren't most 1/2A's considered shool yard fliers? Its kinda a pain to be charging batteries all the time but to me its worth it. I now can fly in spaces I cant with IC powered planes. So until Norvel invents a throttled .020 I am running Lekky's in my littlest stuff. I know guys like CP love to hear the scream of the little engine and I admit sometimes I miss that. Maybe I can put a baseball card in the prop like kids did in the spokes of their bikes until Norvel makes a throttled .020!

As for the mag seeming to focus on electrics, I think there are many modelers that have a hard time sizing motors, props, batts, and esc's to airframes. Just search this forum and see how many were dissapointed with their own results. Electric articles are very helpful and trying to clarify electrics and their specifics. Some say the Lekky's are easier to configure than IC. I only agree that Lekky's are easier to install, but harder to set up. More homework is needed to correctly size the motor, prop, batt, and esc to give you the performance you desire. Besides how hard is to stick an .049 on something if the model calls for an .049 sized engine? Electrics open up a new realm to small model flight to include formally 1/2A and 1/4A powerd aircraft. I for one welcome the electric articles but would like to see a balance to include more IC stuff.

I have rambled on long enough.

Pass me the charger! I mean glow clip, I don't know what I mean.

Larry Driskill

Hey Cowboy - Good Evening,

I have read and reread your "two cents" post. I think the modeling philosophy you espouse in it pretty well sums up why a lot of us have spent so much time over the years in this sport/hobby.

Great, insightful post.

build light

quote by Half-A-Hec:
"Its kinda a pain to be charging batteries all the time but to me its worth it."
Think of it this way: the time you spend cherging batteries (only a few minutes not hours) you otherwise would have been wiping the model off, letting the engine cool a bit, checking to make sure there was no debris in the intake, making sure that the screws holding the LG were still tight, etc. I see no real loss there as far as time is concerned. The only real loss is the sound and the smell. MMM nitro juice boiling in the cylinder ( Ok so I didn't always wait very long between flights some times!) when priming for another flight. Something one does not want to forget.

Robert

mclintock

My Feedback: (3)

I'll go totally electric the day they invent batteries as light and powerful as lithium polymers are now, only they can be thrown in a box, that box can be left in a barn attic for 23 years, then the battery will be as good as new when I get back to needing it. Today's lipo would have started a fire just sitting there in the box once it went too dead maybe.

Take a cox engine, leave it gunked up with the remains of the old oil soaked severed firewall attached in that same barn for 23 years, clean it and it's as good as new.

An extreme example, but even with the small number of battery packs I have now, I can 'feel' them nagging at me to charge them even during the winter or they will die in their sleep, while the plain bearing glow engines are immune to time.

of course if i'd shut up and fly I wouldnt have a problem!

Half-A-Hec

Clint,

Yeah that holds true for the Lipo batt but what about the brushless motor. I bet if someone did a side by side comparison to determine how many hours of run time resulted in lost performance a brushless motor would outlast an IC engine! What's there to wear out? Not much. Oh yea when was the last time your IC started in the cold winter months on the first try? When was the last time you fired up your motor in the kitchen to see how much thrust it developed. Uh don't answer that!

Hee Hee


Hec

mclintock

My Feedback: (3)

Yeah I guess I should be comparing the batteries to jugs of fuel.. That would be more like it. The brushless motor and controller should last forever just like the engine.. while the fuel.. might burn down the barn after a while..

When's the last a glow engine fired up full throttle in the kitchen just from turning on the transmitter not remembering the battery was in the plane and the fridge gets dented?

Really- it's all good! there does not need to be a 'better'..

Half-A-Hec

Clint, I guess a guy could always take a tablespoon of old fuel to keep himself regular! So all is not lost. Chalk one up for the Fuelies! BTW todays ESC's won't allow the motor to start if the throttle is not in the closed position when the transmitter is turned on. Nice try though! Hee hee.


Hec

Bipe Flyer

I've yet to see a LiPo charge in less than an hour, let alone minutes. I go to the field, fly the electrics dead and then put them on charge. Fly the glow planes for the rest of the day and then the electrics are charged and ready to go for the next time. It probably takes me longer to pack up all the batteries, chargers and wires than it does to wipe off a couple of planes.

cyclops2

I will accept electric power when it is used in most real planes, cars, boats, etc.

Real------- is ONLY--------- real look and sound.

Half-A-Hec

Bipe,

That's the biggest draw back. I have 6 batts and can charge 3 at a time. So its a constant changing of batts. One's ready to go then fly, done flying put it on the charger, hopefully the wait for the next batt isn't too long.

The next time I fly my Norvel Powered planes I will have to time how long it takes me to:

* Wipe the fuel off
* Fuel the plane up
* Connect the glow clip
* Get the motor started
* Get band-aid on finger cuz I didn't use a chicken stick[:@]
* Stop the engine.
* Wipe blood of the plane.
* Wait for the throbbing to stop so I can fly.


I am sure that its still less than an hour! Haw!


Hec

hogflyer

Based on previous experience years ago, I wasn't too sold on electric until I actually flew Re-V-Amped. Considering the cost of trying to acquire a Cox .010 or .020 that's new (sorry, but I won't buy a used engine unless I know the owner quite well and the history of the engine, but that's just me), I feel a case for electric can be built. I think if a Cox was left in a barn for 23 years it would probably be rusted up if it wasn't pickled, or at least soaked in ATF. While I like 1/2A glow, and will build/fly .049/.061/.074 I'm also convinced that for .010/.020 size electric is the way to go. Re-V-Amped is capable of unlimited vertical and flight times are over 5 minutes instead of 90 seconds. I treated (more like abused ) it like I would do a .46 nitro, not a flip it on its back or hold negative g's and the engine quits type of plane, and it can be flown in a lot of places a nitro would be run out of. Changing batteries vs. cleaning and refueling the plane cancel each other out. All in all, I think there is room for both nitro and electric and each has its own unique application based on the builder/pilots desires. To say one is better than the other can no longer be justified like 30 years ago. Besides, how usable would the fuel for a Cox be after sitting for 23 years? Probably as useful as a 23 year old battery. Proper care and feeding of both nitro engines and electric motors and their required accessories is what will get the most out of them.

Hogflyer

mclintock

My Feedback: (3)

Agreed- brushless and lipos changed everything.

Someday world peace will come about as a result.

How? Well, already there are manufacturers scrambling to make viable electric cars using- you guessed it, lithium polymer cells and brusless motors. The idea is to exchange portable cells at 'gas' stations much like grill propane tanks.
So when we not longer need oil and gas for our cars and are driving lipo cars, no more money for rocket propelled grenades!

Or with enough sure starts, running on methanol.. that's not from oil is it?

Bipe Flyer

It's all about the plane being built for the appropriate power system. Give the credit to the designer/builder. Another thing don't like is taking the wing on/off and plugging/unplugging the battery. I don't have to take the wings off of any of my current glow planes, the largest having a .70FS in it.

KidEpoxy

I've bent 2 cranks, but have gone thru about 60 prop shafts & 20+ plastic gearboxes. LiPos are nice, but they need a better GWS gearbox that can avoid shaft bending.... that or I need to stop hitting the ground... I think new shafts will come first

mylamo

My Feedback: (1)

I have not ever owned an ARF or an electric and probably will not,but I watch them both and
am amazed at the performance of both. Almost painless enjoyment somehow just does'nt seem
fair.One of these days Peter will probably manage to sell me one of his works of art which will
never be appreciated by the toy store guys.
Ralph

Andrew

Ditto here.

The electrics now have truly outstanding performance and may well keep folks flying where sound issues would close down fields. As far as the ARFs are concerned, I've looked at the general construction, the fit of the lasered parts and the covering and always wonder how they can be produced and sold at the prices some of them bring and knowing that I would be hard pressed to build a plane for the same dollars..

But, them 'lectrons just don't smell the same as castor.

Bipe Flyer

I've got a couple of ARFs to beat on, but it really feels like someone stole half the fun - the building.

gcb

I think it all comes down to putting up with the characteristics of whatever you like. I would not venture to say which is best...only which is best FOR ME.

George