Pond Skipper

Interesting numbers thank you for sharing Alan!!

Knowing how opened up the ports are on the ASP .12
Check out this effort by PR Racing, I wonder what
that vertical channel is for above the exhaust port?



On another note you had mentioned hard mounting
the engine for best rpms agreed of course my solution
for the Magnum XLX .15A was an exact fit using the
OS .15 aluminum mount they are light weight over
some of the older traditional mounts. Also slapped on
one of my new APC 6.5x6 to try. Spinners are great
for covering up all that APC hub beef increasing rpm.


APC 7x5 MACS Tuned Pipe:
Static 18,100 rpm / 86mph /.49hp / 2.3 lbs thrust / 366w

APC 6.5x6 MACS Tuned Pipe:
Static 18,000 rpm / 102mph / if unloaded 21k / 120mph

Pond Skipper

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgFSqnMf9dk Published on Jan 23, 2016

Picco P-0 .06 / .85cc APC 4.2x4
26,570 rpm / 101mph static
Muffler from Mecoa Fuji engine.
AP .09 carb used. 20% nitro / castor / synthetic mix
Quick run up after about 2.5oz of break in.
Should loosen up to 27k after a few more oz.
Will test with the 1/2A tuned pipe after full break in.




Vertigo .0692 / 4.2x4 / 25.7k rpm static / 98mph / 20% nitro
- 29.88 unloaded best pass / 113mph / Skorch II

AME Norvel .061 / 4.2x4 / 25.44k static / 96mph / 30% nitro
- 27.68k unloaded best pass / 105 mph / 1/2A Skorch

CY .589 / 4.1x4.1E / 22.53k / 87mph / 20% nitro - stock muffler

Fuji .0489 / 4.2x4 / 22.34k / 85mph static / 20% nitro -stock muffler

Picco .0519 / 4.2x4 / 26.57k / 101mph static / 20% nitro
Thristy engine needs 2oz tank


The peppy Picco .06 gets it done with an extra 870rpm static.
Will only run the 4.2x4 prop to avoid stress on the crank.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

I've wondered what could be done by people who were already independently wealthy, but had a tremendous interest in engine development.
The first things you would do is equip yourself with a dyno and with a "flow bench" to measure dynamic improvements in volumetric efficiency. The rest would be left up to your intuition, imagination, engineering talent, formal training and last but not least....luck.
Actually, when it comes to raising a bar that is already set pretty high, luck and sweat equity must go hand in hand.
The vertical channel intercepts a relief in the liner's OD. This would introduce high pressure, hot air to the entire circumference of that area.
Does this help the liner "grow" more uniformly instead of having a hot spot...?
Does this help block escaping crankcase pressure that emerges from the gaps between the liner and the case..?
Does this mod make ANY measurable difference, or is it done just to make prospective customers Oook and Eeek over their Wizardry with a Dremel...?

Pond Skipper

Looking at some choice materials: for a .08 size engine.
Titanium case
Ceramic bearings
Titanium piston with ceramic coating
Ceramic sleeve
Roller bearings on both ends of the con rod
Floating sleeve with timing adjustment screw / adjust / set during running.
Micro blower with parasite adjustable fuel pump
Flat coil plug embedded 65% to avoid any chance for part of the coil to break off.
Each engine is broken in and dyno tested tweaked and tuned prior to shipping.

Mr Cox

I have never seen any sleeve channel like that before, are you sure it is not simply a reflektion or optical illusion?

The internet is full of pictures of all kinds of strange mods, but not all of them are good....

Mr Cox

The Picco engines are great, the P-zero is indeed marked as .085cc which makes it a .052 inch^3 engine (?). So only a hair larger than a a true .049, but with a power to match even much larger engines. Just be careful with that crank, I haven't dared to fly mine after all the bad stories of broken cranks...

Pond Skipper

No doubt a awesome engine but yes scary not knowing if you have a dud crank or cause it to fail
by landing with the engine running or abusing it on start up with a standard starter. Using too big
or heavy spinner stud, or poor prop alignment when mounting or out of balance or too big of
a prop. All things must be balanced and up close the the front bearing as possible.

I use the small 1/A Hornet starter basically a 12v .05 can motor. I prime the engine when in dry state
by running the starter while plugging the exhaust waiting for fuel to draw thru the fuel line up to the carbs
nipple then back off the exhaust and wait for the fuel to reach the piston insuring there is only enough
fuel to start the engine without excess. The 4.2x4 isnt over loading the engine if you use all castor
you will be loading the engine I think a blend of primary synthetic will have less stress on the engine.


Looking at the raw numbers there is some expounding to consider.

Profi Tuned Pipe:

Vertigo .0692 / 4.2x4 / 25.7k rpm static / 98mph / 20% nitro
- 29.88 unloaded best pass / 113mph / Skorch II
Tough engine able to swing more prop than any other
Will actually put out more power than the Picco and has
a small frame weight best engine choice at 170 deg timing
Engine has gone through many field tests using a full range
of props countless flights now. 4.1x4.1E / 30.55k / 119 mph

AME Norvel .061 / 4.2x4 / 25.44k static / 96mph / 30% nitro
- 27.68k unloaded best pass / 105 mph / 1/2A Skorch
Strong fuss free heater but no bearings only 150 deg timing
.074 Norvel has 160 deg timing



Fuji / Mecoa Muffler:

Fuji .0489 / 4.2x4 / 22.34k / 85mph static / 20% nitro
160 deg timing does better with a tuned pipe should unload well
Smallest displacement of the group be has potential as a usable
engine for high rpm flying. Needs a turbo head and raised sleeve
to 170- 180 deg timing should out run the Norvel at that stage.
APC 4.1x4.1E will help this engine unload better 23.2k / 90 mph
FYI Cox 4 x 2.5 / 24,800 rpm

Picco .0519 / 4.2x4 / 26.57k / 101mph static / 20% nitro
Perfect engine less crank, 160 deg timing turbo head is
making more compression then the Fuji. A guy made a
turbo head for the Fuji and gained around 1,400 rpm 4.2x4
APC 4.1x4.1E will help reduce load on the crank. I have
3 of these on order to test. Est. 27.3k / 106 mph

Pond Skipper

Sirio .0915 / 1.5cc / Rear exhaust / Integrated carb.

The Vertigo's nemesis!


Fins reduced for effect. Est. 5x5E / 29.5k / 140 mph
Flight tested - Vertigo 5x5E / 20.43k static / 24.94k / 118
Per Sirio car vid speed test 33,680 rpm


Star Motors Engineering in Italy manufactured the engine
STAR MOTOR (the manufacturer of SIRIO engines)
G. Voghera and Andrea Rossi was paid to help design the .09 engine.

I have one on order. Smaller than the .10's -.12's
Bit bigger in case dia. than the Vertigo same
bearing size, beefy crank , 170 deg timing made
in Europe.


Here is the pic of mine on order with pipe
Made in Italy $109 shipped.



Mounting wont be much of a fuss
just invert your typical nylon beam mount.
I will use the Russian 1.5cc tuned pipe.





Sirio V Twin / not in production

aspeed

The Sirio looks interesting. Galbreath had been working on the P Zero .05s. He destrokes them to be an .049 and presses a new bearing in the rodso it may be a bit cheaper to do one at the regular stroke. He makes a sleeve to strengthen the crank, and adds a bigger bearing. I think the .07 Vertigo could improve a lot with some fiddling.

Pond Skipper

I have two of the P-Zero's, Toad is going to make a run of cranks but had to make a move first.
He said he will contact me once he is ready to tool up for a run. It should happen this year looking
forward to it. The crank fix is simple step up in diameter and change out the bearings.

The Italian Sirio's are made in a few sizes 09, .12, .21 that I am aware of thus far.

With the .07 the small APC 4.2x4 prop causes the engine to demand more fuel flow than
it can handle with its current setup. I have some special shape 3oz plastic bottles on order
that I hope will fit in the fuselage to upgrade the existing 2oz tank and replum with a larger
pressure line to the tank. With better pressure all should go well testing the APC 4.1x4.1E

Pond Skipper

Added the CY .06:


Picco .0519 / 4.2x4 / 26.57k / 101mph static / 20% nitro

Vertigo .0692 / 4.2x4 / 25.7k rpm static / 98mph / 20% nitro
- 29.88 unloaded best pass / 113mph / Skorch II

AME Norvel .061 / 4.2x4 / 25.44k static / 96mph / 30% nitro
- 27.68k unloaded best pass / 105 mph / 1/2A Skorch

CY .589 / 4.1x4.1E / 22.53k / 87mph / 20% nitro - stock muffler

Fuji .0489 / 4.2x4 / 22.34k / 85mph static / 20% nitro -stock muffler

Pond Skipper

Flew the Skorch II today with Kmh speed / data logger on board

4.7x4.25E / 175 kmh / 109 mph reading.
The logger puts out 5 top readings lowest 167 kmh

Took the logger off and the weight and drag sitting under
the front nose is just enough to be just noticeable during
the following flight and reviewing the vid rpm was up.

Without the logger:
Best pass by the cam 27.78k / theoretical 112 mph per the calc.
On the ground 23,225 rpm

Nice full throttle pass taken from the vid today within 5 ft. of me.

Pond Skipper

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIzr...ature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIzrCJxmJXk&feature=youtu.be Tested with 20% nitro and oil - sounds like a mad lil kitty when your work the throttle

get you some of that!






Order of 3x2E props came in
Static 26,597 rpm / 50.3 mph
2.8oz thrust / 18w
Unloaded should make for a
50 mph micro speedy with the
right design.

Pond Skipper

Doing some prop testing with the TD .020
As time marches on new props come out
on the market making old projects new again.
In the quest for speed:

20% nitro and oil

Bench tested: 3.3 x 3.15E / 24,870 / 74.1 mph / 30w / 3.2oz thrust.
- Flight tested best read in the hand 24k static / unloaded 27,145 / 81 mph
- Was a bit rich to insure no flame out - actual speed around 65 mph

E-flite 3.75 x 3E / 21,800 / 62 mph / 32w / 4.23oz thrust
Will test this one next. est. 25k unloaded 71 mph
- Thrust will be better less slip should see 60+ mph
- Tap out a TD .010 spinner for 2-56 threaded bolt
shown in pic

All up weight of 3ch Lil Speedy with fuel 5.76oz

Thinking it's time for a new design with 14g 6v battery
in the mail / target weight to match the thrust of the 3.7x3 at 4oz
if 35% nitro could get perhaps 4.5oz thrust

Pond Skipper

Here are the props in comparison
Standard spinner and modded .010 spinner.




On the quest for cheap light weight gear
I will give the Life 200mah 6v RX battery a go with
this 2.7g Orange 4ch RX and these 3.7g servo's

3ch set up plus switch 3.3g / 32.8g gross.

Servos selected as they are made to handle up to 7.2v
Life 2S battery is 2.5v nominal per cell.

TD .010 with throttle sleeve / prop 14.4g
Fuel tank 5g

52.2g all gear less plane 1.84 oz

If with a TD .020 throttle sleeve 28g
65.8g or 2.32oz less plane

A small plane that can go vertical is possible.

jbel

were are measuring the length with this formula

Pond Skipper

Hi Jbel, I measure from the center of the piston 1/2" from the start of the stinger.


Full scale pic of the Lil Speedy II

16in from spinner to end of the fuselage. Will have to be all balsa
to keep the weight down with ply firewall and landing gear former.
Landing gear to protect the prop as my field can get rough in the summer.
3/4th oz fuel tank for 8 min flights and enough fuel to upgraded with a
TD .020 / GMark .030 at some point.




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IFY...ature=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IFYhNJWZMg&feature=youtu.be Published on Feb 6, 2016
Lil Speedy 21" span plane 3ch / 5.7oz ready to fly.
Cox TD .020 / 3.75x3 / 21,883 rpm / 62mph / 4.23oz thrust / 33w
20% nitro and oil Est. unloaded 25k / 71mph

35% nitro on order est. 22.55k static. 64mph / 4.6oz thrust / UL 74mph

Pond Skipper

After a bit of run in time I tested the max rpm of the GMark .030
Comes with 1 prop weird they would only give you one prop 2
would be better: D4.527 x P1.97 / Stated as D115xP50 on the prop.

Throttle works good low enough to land with ease.
Static: 17,200 rpm / 25w / 5.3oz thrust / 32mph
Should do about 17.7k after a few tanks
35% nitro est 18.5k broken in / 35mph
Even in rich mode the engine is hot the iron
piston keeps temps higher than a TD .020.



Edit stock prop weighs 3.3g
Cox 4.5x2 / 2.1g weight makes
a big difference proven over other
tests and in this case the next 3/4th
oz tank had the Cox prop going at
17,715 rpm / 34mph / 5.64 oz thrust.
The 3.75x3 prop should make reasonable
speed with 35% nitro.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htZe...ature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htZeaU_GsYU&feature=youtu.be G-Mark makes for a nice RC engine if thrust is your goal
35% nitro with 4.5x2 will get you 6oz thrust. It's displacement
should have enough punch to swing a 5x3 carbon prop for
hovering a 3D fun fly type design.

Pond Skipper

1.55oz as shown thus far
60 sq. in. / 16in span




With all gear 96.2g / 3.39oz
Down to doing up the pluming and sealing off the top.
Will just go with a vertical stab but may add rudder.
Not sure yet may mod the square wing. Simple build
plenty of room with a 3/4th oz tank for nice run time
Firewall big enough to use a TD .020 if desired. So
far CG is working out great. Green prop on 20% nitro
2.8oz thrust / est 3.4oz thrust with 35% nitro in the mail.
Plane should make target weight 4.5oz.





Tail is not glued in thinking about shaping the flying services.
If so sq /in could be reduced to around 50

1 2 3

Pond Skipper

Quickie .010

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Very nice...!
I met a guy at work about 10 years ago who knew the patented "MicroFlight .010 Throttle Guy" out of pure coincidence. I was rummaging around for scraps of spongy foam rubber and somehow we got on the subject of the RC hobby.
hey..don't trust that battery any farther than you can throw it...!

Pond Skipper

Yes I do recall you lost a plane to this brand / mah. battery. No chance
of a binding servo dragging down the voltage? What size servos?

I had read up and learn how to set my Accucell-6 charger on LiFe settings
for 3.3v per cell and 2S charging for 6.6v keeping a brake on the max voltage.
Not following this protocol will nuke them in short order if set on LiPo 2S.


I have an optional battery on the way Its by Dynamite 150mah 4C rating.
3.2g per cell back in the early 2000 they were 120mah 2C max draw.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

I think I just let my guard down having too much fun with the 200Life.
The 200Life packs [from Tower] aren't cheap, so makes buying 3 or 4 of them to have a nice session at the field kind of spendy. I was pretty happy with the 300-350 mah Nimh packs and sorry to see them go.
I'm surprised to see your 120 ma pack...I'll have to look them up.

Pond Skipper

http://www.ebay.com/itm/272059932260...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

These packs are 10.89 shipped, used for small brushless car motors so they can handle servo current easy enough. Good for 600mah servo loads continuous so short bursts nearing 1A wont harm them. I remember when the 120mah came out smallest cell you could use for indoor flying with useable run time but they couldnt handle very much load.These new 150mah 4C cells should allow up to 4 flights with 3.7g micro servo's and 2 flights with 14 to 24g servos and 3 flights with 9g park flyer servos. They are half the length of 2/3 AAA / 220 to 400 mah which are 6.5g per cell.

Pond Skipper

Welp after some thought I have decided to go with the lightest possible set up with the gear chosen.
Speed is the goal with good run time so nixed the landing gear / low wing for a high wing belly lander.

The details are completed throttle servo hooked up and elevator push rod set up, Fuel proofed the wood
up front on the fire wall added carbon tube on the leading / trailing edge of the wing for protection from
the rubber bands. Aileron servo has just the horn peaking out the top of the wing to reduce drag. Pluming
done its ready for monokote. I have left the wing shape alone so it can float in on landings with less risk of
breaking the prop. CG is tad rearward for floating in dry and tad forward of the sweet spot at launch.
Weight is 107g / 3.77 oz. as shown less covering and 3 surface horns. I have the wing setup to move
over the fuselage saddle with no snagging front and back of any lips or seats that could get sheared off
in a tumble. Also for goo control there is no front hatch to reduce the chance of oil seeping inside and
a tight seal by the rubber bands will fight back the goo from entering the wing saddle. To further fight
the goo I have slathered on some Coverite Balsarite as this little wee one doesn't need to inherit any
additional weight over time. It repels oil and helps make covering stick better and is a must over ply.