1QwkSport2.5r

There was a lot of info from him in the Norvel FAQ thread. All Big Migs.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

With .049 diesels I think the idea is to use more ether in your recipe than you would for a larger engine. The idea is that extra ether [at least for starting] ensures that the fuel will have enough compressible vapor in the mix so that you won't have to compensate by shrinking the combustion chamber dangerously small.
I've never read or heard about what too much ether does. I imagine it hurts the timing and the duration of the downward push on the piston.
The largest I've run is the PAW .15. They have a heavy piston and the engine doesn't need to rev very high to cause more vibration than a glow .15 would. This might be some kind of an advantage with larger glow conversions...?

1QwkSport2.5r

Yeah, that's possibly where the 1/3 - 1/3 - 1/3 recipe originated. 33.33% ether, 33.33% castor, 33.34% kerosene. I already use 31% ether, a small batch of even 35-40% ether wouldn't be a big deal. Heck, there are some vintage fixed compression diesels that ran on something like 60-70% ether and 30-40% 70wt motor oil or something to that effect.

In any event, I need to get the engine and see if it runs halfway decent before I go down any other roads with it. Do the AME engines need a bladder tank or crankcase pressure or can I run it on suction alone?

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

The Old Guy I wrote about earlier had RC carbs on his AMEs. He had filed air bleed notches in the carb body next to the throttle barrel. I don't recall him demonstrating how well they idled since it was a miserable day to be out there.
I just remember his shaky hands getting chewed up a little bit while dinking around with adjusting the engines and I was relieved when he finally decided it was time to launch the model.
You might think the AME is ported just for high RPM and gulping methanol but the Old Timer claimed they made the best 1/2 A conversion he had tried. He was probably comparing to Cox and VA.
I only own the C/L version AMEs so I'm no help except to say that if you were to look up Andy Woitkowicz [Hopeso] on utoob' comments section he would have very specific recommendations if any are needed.
I recall Andy talk about the fixed compression engines and a few shims for fine tuning. I'd like to try that some time.

aspeed

There used to be a guy that sold a plug that replaced the glow plug on regular motors. It was just a burned out plug with a piece of brass pressed in where the element was. It used a lot of ether in the fuel. Now it is the hardest and most expensive thing to find. Also the only part of the fuel that the wife hates. I guess there are flashbacks from a doctor visit in the 1950's. With that method, I would guess a lot of shimming would be in order, and an electric starter too. I think the Norvel RC carbs needed a mod to get a better idle. If I remember correctly, and I may not, the carb had to be removed, and the housing hole needed to be enlarged a bit, and then glued back in. One of my .06s does not idle at all, while another is quite good. I got that one used. Maybe the previous guy did that mod. As far as diesel fuel is concerned, the AME one normally has a big carb, and the diesels normally like a smaller one. The diesel thread may have more info on that.

jaymen

The early Novells had a Nickle pated cylinders, used a high compression glow head designed for FAI no nitro fuel. Run the later lower compression Freedom XL head that has the insert if you want to run nitro. I had best luck using 10% nitro. Later versions are called Rev-lite and have greyinsh black fins, which is an anodized aliminum cylinder whose OD is bigger, and they came with the updated glowhead. All the .049/.061 Novells do not like a 6x3 prop and run much better on a 5x3, don't lug these engines! There was an AME, and Big Mig version of each engine, the AME had larger venturi and more agressive porting, while the Big Mig was more of a sport version that came with a plastic tank. Both versions used a muffler, they run best with it on. If you use a bladder, consider a fine thread needle valve to make adjust,emt easier. Later versions have the fine thread needle with locking collet. Putting a smaller venturi in the AME makes it more suitable for running withoput a bladder. Galbreath sells Nelson glow heads for the Norvells that work great, I bough a dozen once Novell went Kaput.

Be warned that you need to back the compression way off (add a bunch of head gaskets) to run 25% nitro, as these engines were originally made for no nitro FAI use. Failure to do so will ruin the engine as they will quickly overheat.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

I never did this [way back in 198X?] and never did get any longevity out of those first AMEs. They would always gouge the piston and liner where the wrist pin hole meets the liner.

1QwkSport2.5r

Now that I have the engine in hand, maybe someone can shed some light on what I really have. I believe it's a Norvel AME .049, hopefully I got that part right. This engine has a standard plug insert and head clamp and the chamber shape looks to be set for high nitro fuel. I'd read that some early AME engines had a standard glow plug insert. Is there any truth to this? The cylinder looks good and it has compression. How it runs remains to be determined.

Mr Cox

What do you want to know?
Yes, that's a Norvel .049, the pre-revlite model, and yes even earlier engines came with this regular glowplug head but they have also been selling them after that for those wanting to use regular glow plugs. You will get more power from the original dedicated glow head though, or you can take a cox glow plug if you have one laying around, or the newer Merlin ones will also fit (if you have an older clamp ring, with smaller hole, it might not fit though).

I don't know the full story, and I don't speek/read russian, but I believe the lettering on the side is "AMD" (Russian letter D is different from the english one) not AME.
You engine will have five transfer ports, just look through the exhaust to check.

The destinction between AME and Big Mig porting came with the later revlite series as I remember it, but I might be wrong....

You can run them on 10% nitro, just make sure to use plenty of castor in the fuel.

Here are some typical performance numbers with the same engine, but with the stock glow head and 10% nitro (one head shim);

APC 5.7x3 ; 18500 rpm
APC 4.75x4; 20500 rpm

1QwkSport2.5r

It came with a 6x3 Thimble Drome prop on it, but I also have an MAS 6x3 and probably a bit closer to what it really wants - 5.5x2.5 APC. The hobby shop was out of 5x3s, so I got the next best thing. I'll pull the head off and look inside again - I didn't count the ports earlier today when I had the head off.

It turns out i have a Cox .049 QZ engine that needs the piston re-set, so I'll borrow the glow plug from it and try it on the Norvel. It's too bad the spring starter from the QZ won't work on the Norvel.

Edit: it's an AME for sure - 3 intake ports/1 exhaust. The drive washer is the notched style; not press fit. The carb is glued in, not screwed. So besides the nickel plated liner and aluminum piston, how else did they set up the p/l construction?

DeviousDave

Interesting the timing of this thread, considering that I was digging thru my photo bucket account tonight and was watching a video I took of my Norvel .061 R/C with a diesel head on it. No idea how it runs in the air, but it impressed me on the bench. I had a 6-4 Cox prop on it and it idled at 4400 and turned just over 17,300 on the high end. The best part was the transition, like AndyW found with the .074 it's instantaneous like a good glow engine, none of this wait for the engine to warm up stuff like you get with an old school diesel with a steel piston and liner. Greg suspects my engine (was a used swap show engine I picked up cheap and put the head on it because I didn't care if I broke the engine on the stand that way) suffered from a slight compression leak because it had a large throttle opening at idle, probably 1/3 open.

in a nutshell, putting the diesel head on the .061 made it run like a glow Norvel .074, at least in the ground. No idea what it's like unloaded but the results were very encouraging. Given Andy's success with the diesel.074 I can see where it would work out well. One thing I can say though is that I think the BigMig's with their milder porting and crank timing might be better on a diesel, you aren't going to spin a diesel at 26k so it's better to have more efficient timing from a run ability standpoint. Peak power between them probably wouldn't be a lot different.

Mr Cox

Yes, the Norvel on diesel seems to run right up there with the MP jet .061 then. The great thing is the larger size and number of props that one can use on a diesel compared to glow. I bought one of their diesel heads when they came out and got the faulty one, still waiting for a replacement or refund...

Might just put it in a lathe and try to fix it myself, it is the surface and chamfer of the sealing surface that they messed up completely....

Here is a picture of it next to a Galbreth head to illustrate the issue, looks like a non-engineer did the sealing part with hand-tools and then sent them out...

Mr Cox

Well, that was an easy fix, now one can even fit it to an engine(!)

There are also the RJL heads, they are well made and direct drop-ins too.

1QwkSport2.5r

I'm gonna keep my AME as a glow. If I can get a reset tool, I might dieselize my little Cox. I would need some really tiny tygon for inside the tank though.

Just kinda curious what vintage (roughly) my engine is so if I need parts, I know what to look for. I'm gonna try to test run it today if I can come up with a small fuel tank. I think I have a film canister.... Maybe.

aspeed

Pretty sure neoprene works with diesel fuel. I have a bit of windshield washer hose that I use sometimes for glow fuel. It may work well on diesel? That is what was used in the 'old' days. You can not see through it of course. Boy, that Russian head is pretty sloppy. I have an AP .06 where the head space was huge, and had to remove some material off the bottom of the thread of the cylinder, and then remove a bit off the head too, so it would thread to the bottom. Kind of hard to hold the head in a collet, and it should not be necessary.

Mr Cox

Yes, neoprene works with diesel fuel, that is what I use for the pick-up line in the tank as it is more flexible than Tygon. The Neoprene does age though and it will have to be replaced after some time.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Inside the tank you can use a hard plastic tube.
Unless you are flying extended inverted and outside maneuvers a diesel engine doesn't drink fast enough to need a flexible clunk line inside the tank.
The same holds true with glow. It takes several seconds after you roll inverted to kill a .049 engine [with external tank].
All it takes for the line to replenish the feed line with fuel is dipping into the reservoir for a split second.
Hard plastic lines are less trouble and what we ended up preferring for RC combat..[which is constant maneuvering].

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

When I started horsing around with the TD.020 and also on tank mount TD .049's - I was surprised how little fuel draw trouble I had, except as you say, in negative g maneuvers where there were clear finite limits.

1QwkSport2.5r

Are the TD's as "high strung" as the Norvel AME? I need to come up with a small tank to test run the AME. I am going to try it on suction and muffler pressure and hope it works okay, but if I need more pressure than what the muffler gives, would I want to just run a bladder or tap the backplate for crankcase pressure?

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

People who drive 100 miles to attend a single 1/2A pylon race [and sometimes win], plus spend 100 hours behind the scenes preparing to compete will tell you that backplate pressure is the best way to go.
If you use muffler pressure, the muffler needs to be safety wired tightly to the case [or clamped] to deliver CONSISTENT pressure, for CONSISTENT runs. Muffler pressure IS adequate if you can do this.
Bladders are popular in C/L combat because it is the lightest possible fuel system and these models crash so often that having a hard tank is a liability. The bladder is more trouble than it's worth for casual RC flying if you can just as easily rig your plane with a backplate system.

Mr Cox

Muffler pressure is enough on the RC models, both on the AME and BigMig.
Don't think that back plate pressure or bladder will let you use the throttle...

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

I found that light (.020") aircraft safety wire does a great job holding on these mufflers. Although you have to redo it anytime you remove it, not a big deal.

1QwkSport2.5r

Is the muffler retaining wire clip prone to failure or not securing the muffler tight enough for consistent fitment/pressure? Would it be recommended to maybe use a dap of RTV silicone on the muffler flange to seal it better?

aspeed

RTV would not hurt. One of my used ones had some on. I would clean the motor with acetone, and leave the muffler oily so it is removeable. The factory wire is fine, but the seal is not airtight for sure. Having said that, I never noticed any problem running them with the throttle. One .06 did not want to idle, but it was new, and may be OK with a bit more running.

1QwkSport2.5r

I cleaned the exterior and muffler with some Dawn Power Dissolver to remove the castor slime already... Should be fine if I RTV it as it is I'd think.. The last AP .061 I had had a really leaky muffler, so I used some RTV on the muffler flange and that helped a lot. For whatever reason, the AP muffler was a 2-piece design. The Norvel muffler is a one-piece affair it seemed.