XJet

Before I fire up my Norvel 061 I wanted some opinions as to the best oil to use in the fuel.

I've got a gallon of Coolpower lube left over from last time I was flying so naturally I'd like to use that if possible but I understand that these little engines need the extra protection offered by a castor-based fuel.

However, I recall from my Cox days that castor-based fuel would gum those little engines up something silly after a reasonable amount of running. With a chromed steel piston and steel liner, getting rid of the varnish build-up was pretty safe and easy -- but, given that the norvels are aluminum and the anodizing/nickel layer is going to be very thin, I'd be very hesitant to take some steel wool to them.

So, what's the best option

-- use castor and just replace the liner/piston if/when they varnish up
-- use synthetic lube and hope the engine doesn't wear out prematurely
-- use a castor/synthetic blend and try to get the best of both worlds?

Right now I'm miles away from a supplier of good fuel-grade castor oil so I'm also wondering whether the stuff I buy from the drug store (for internal application) will cause problems. I recall that in "the good old days" I used to use medicinal castor oil in my diesel fuel but I'm worried that it may not be pure enough to avoid contaminating the glowplug.

ZAGNUT

My Feedback: (1)

just my opinion and you'll probably get many others.

try to find some good castor like klotz benol and use it without the synthetic. don't worry too much about the varnish as it should come right off with the crockpot/antifreeze treatment.


dave

Japanman

You can get mobil R (castor that has been mechanically extracted and so suitable for use with methanol.. as apposed to castrol R which is not. been there done that[:@]) through airsail in penrose, Auckland. it seems to do the job- i have run my norvel .061 on half and half coolpower and castor at 18% with no problems. i now run more oil though, about 22%

J.M

fireman7875

My Feedback: (7)

I use cator in all my 1/2a engines (and smaller) and have had no trouble. I tried running a Norvel .061 on all synthetic once and it wasn't happy. If I add castor to an all synthetic fuel I use Sig castor oil, (amounts of course will vary). Otherwise, I use Sig Champion fuel for 1/2a (20% oil, half of which is castor). It's great stuff; comes in small bottles (quarts I think) and is cheaper than Cox fuel!

Lynn S

I've been using Humco castor from the drug dept at walmart to bring my 16% castor up to 20%.It seems to work fine, but I only need to add around 10mL to 8oz. The instructions with my AP engine says not to use any synthetic during break-in then after break-in to use a blend.

XJet

I was reading on the Norvel site that they have some users who report that the use of CoolPower oil/fuel reduces the life of the glowplug. Is anyone else here using Coolpower (blue - synthetic) with good/bad results?

Also, I've picked up a liter of Castrol R30 which is a Castor-based oil that is compatible with methanol (albeit requiring the addition of a little acetone to ensure total soluability).

I was planning to add some of this to the existing Coolpower fuel I've already got so as to add that castor-oil safety-margin that can sometimes be so handy. Does anyone have any comment on this?

rrragmanliam

My Feedback: (1)

Ok, I'll admit up front that I don't know S_ _ t about this. From what I understand synthetic oils are used primarely to reduce the amount of crap coming out the tailpipe. From what I understand Castor has a higher shear strenght at high temps, and will therfore provide more protection should your engine overheat due to a lean run.

over and out - RRRagman

Andrew

Castor has another trait that doesn't get mentioned much - aside from a somewhat higher film strength and a secondary use a an afterrun oil, it carries away a lot of heat. The synthetics tend to burn, although I have no idea what energy store they contain, while castor is expelled -- and since it is hot when expelled, it can be fairly efficient in removing heat. The heat energy required to raise the castors temp is blown out the exhaust -

When synthetics came on the scene, the old engine guys (old guys, not engines) tended to worry not only about the synthetics holding up under the high rpms and about overheating. The synthetics have proven to be OK with high revs, but all synthetic lube probably increases the chances of cooking your engine.

the "other" Andrew

Remby

My Feedback: (3)

Once the oil in the fuel starts to burn, the protection of the lube is gone, so you don't want that to happen. Castor needs much more heat to start to burn than synth oils. So caster allows for a lean run better because of it's ability to absorb heat and still lube the engine. This is a simple way to look at this, But I use a all castor fuel because of this. Try the NFX 25% from hobby people, good price and it's 20% pure castor at that nitro level.

Bipe Flyer

I use all castor. I have tried Omega castor/synthetic blend and the engines seemed OK, but the plugs grew a white crust and died relatively quickly.

I prefer castor due to its better protection in case of a lean run.

AndyW

My Feedback: (1)

I normally spike my 1/2A fuel with castor, no matter what it is, to take the oil content to 22% or so. Doesn't hurt power and can only help. The reason castor is recommended for Cox engines is that the ball socket needs the extra protection castor provides. Then you get the varnish problem. On that subject, I've NEVER had a varnish problem on any engine that I can think of except for Cox. Something in the fits and metallurgy, I guess. Not a problem at all with Norvels.

Andrew

BF --

I have an engine with a little over 4 hours on it -- original plug -- and it has a white crust also. However, this engine had been run on NVX 15% exclusively. NORVEL's Tech Notes indicated some fuels caused problems, so I decided to try their fuel and a nylon fueler to see if it behaved any differently. After 4 hours, I could see no real advantage to the branded fuel (which was more expensive), so I'm running Wildcat 15/18, a castor/synthetic blend, and it seems to run as well or better than the NVX.

NORVEL fuels are bottled by Wildcat here in KY and most of the Wildcat fuels are a castor/synthetic blend. I'm not sure that the NORVEL fuels are 100% castor, but I will have to check the jug for contents.

the "other" Andrew

Rendegade

I actually found this out before, and I made a special batch of fully castor based fuel.

Now, the question remains, how much nitro is good?

Andrew

I checked my NVX 15/18 bottle to see if it were labeled with any oil blend -- here's what I found. The label stated: "High quality KLOTZ lubricant ensures long lasting protection for engine parts under high RPM conditions" and "NVX FUEL contains Nitromethane, Methanol, and Nonpetroleum Lubricants." I had always associated KLOTZ with synthetics, so the labeling seemed contradictory -- how can it contain KLOTZ and be Nonpetroleum.

I visited Wildcats' site (www.wildcatfuel.com) and checked their Super 1/2A fuel to see if they listed mixtures. The product description only stated that the 1/2A fuel contained 18% total oil -- it also stated that they bottled NORVEL and COX fuels. I knew about NORVEL, but not COX. The site also had a section on "Oil Packages" -- which is where I found the castor based KLOTZ product, BeNOL.

So, NORVEL's NVX may indeed be all castor without any synthetics, but the BeNOL does apparently have some other additives. KLOTZ's site (www.klotzlube.com) has a description of BeNOL: http://www.klotzlube.com/support/techsheets/BC-175.pdf

I may try to pick up a quart of BeNOL to use as an additive to my standard Wildcat 15/16 which is an 80/20 synthetic/castor blend.

I still have no idea why my plug filament has grown a white beard, but since Bipe Flyer has seen the same thing, either we have fuel with the same additive or we are both nuts.

Conclusion: I have none. This is strictly FYI FWIW. [8D]

the "other" Andrew

ZAGNUT

My Feedback: (1)

the klotz benol (bean oil?) is great stuff. it's the only oil i use for all my glo engines and sometimes even in the gassers. my LHS buys it in bulk and repackages it for $10 a liter which is a pretty good price considering where i am in the world. they also sell cox heads for $7! friendly place, my LHS....


dave

Bipe Flyer

I currently buy custom mixed Red Max fuel from FHS Supply.

http://members.aol.com/FHSoil/RedMax.html

I get 20% castor with 15% nitro for break in and 25% nitro for flying.
I have had no problems since switching to Red Max.

Jeff Leavitt

Andrew,

I understand that Sig now produces the NVX branded fuel. I had good luck with the Wildcat version too. I've used Byron's 16% all castor, adding 1 oz. of Klotz KL100 with excellent results. This mix yields right at 20% oil content. Klotz KL100 is available at any good motorcycle shop, price is around $8.00 per quart. I've used this mix on 1/2a's turning well into the 30's. It is a little messier though, more residual oil on the airframe. But alas! no engine lube related problems.

Nitro percentages. I have tested higher % but in my opinion, 25% has been the best all around. 35% plus and rubber parts will be effected causing who know what kind of problems. If everything else is right, 25% will produce incredible power without the side effects i.e. hard to needle, over compressed, overheating, (due to overcompressing) etc. Higher nitro percentages without the corresponding proper set up is liable to drive you nuts with associated problems. Just pouring in the nitro won't make a winner.... Rgds, Jeff

Japanman

This seems rings a few ominous bells in my head.. Did the tech lady at castrol N.Z tell you it was soluble by anychance? (with some acetone..) If it turns white when you add it to the methanol, my advice is to stop then and there. Still, my experience was from 5?years ago.

J.M

XJet

Castrol's own product data sheet for R30 says it is "suitable" for use with methanol with the caveat that "Benzene or acetone may have to be added to the fuel/oil mixture to improve solubility"

Interestingly enough, it also says that R30 is "suitable" for gasoline with the caveat that "The suitability of CASTROL R or M in standard or super petrol will depend on the Toluene and/or Benzene content of the petrol. Advisable to check compatibility before mixing. Isoproply Alcohol may have to be added to gain solvency."

So although R30 is "suitable" for either gasoline or methanol, in both cases it may be necessary to add another solvent to improve solubility.

Hell, I might just stick to Coolpower synthetic :-)

Castrol NZ told me that they didn't think R30 would mix with methanol but that they didn't import Castrol M anyway so I was SOL.

My own experiments indicate that R30 will disolve in methanol to about 18%. Adding more than this creates a coloidal suspension in which the excess separates out -- and interestingly enough, creates small waxy flakes that settle to the bottom of the mixture.

I guess I'll just use the rest of this oil in my two-stroke lawn mower :-)

Bipe Flyer

If you can get Coolpower the you should be able to get Omega. At least it has some castor and will provide better protection than Coolpower.

ajcoholic

My Feedback: (10)

I have run 15% cool power for years, and just add a bit of Sig castor oil into the mix... nothing fancy, just a few caps into a quart.

I have not had any problems running my 1/2A engines - allthough I dont run Norvels, mainly the cox's and VA's. But I also dont run lean.

I seem to be in the minority when it comes to fuel choice - I run 15% cool power in all my large engines too, and have yet to "burn out" an engine. But I also run on the richer side, no dead sticks from lean settings.

Sig castor is so easy to get - why hunt for other possible insoluable oils?

AJC

Japanman

You did better than me. I tried 18% but much would fall out of suspension right away- we also tried adding acetone, but that didn`t seem to do anything.
I have since bought and used mobil (R? M? I forget)- by comparison it seems like the stuff for the job.

J.M