Palm Pilot

My Feedback: (1)

I'm planning on buying a Norvel 0.074, but am leery of doing so given the rods problems back in July 02. Are they fixed yet, has Norvel or Sig stood tall with warranty? Or should I wait or buy something else. I've never bought a 1/2 A since my younger years with Cox and CL planes (early 70's).

Any feedback may save me a headache and valuable time.

flyinrog

My Feedback: (1)

I believe we found that there was no real rod problem but more of a lack of proper break-in and using high torque starters on the small engines....due a search on breakin and follow what 2fast4u says and you'll be fine,,,,, I did it and mine is ready to run after 3 tanks of 20%nitro run on the bench, read the instructs cause Ive never seen a procedure like this one but mine runs fine...Rog

Palm Pilot

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks Flyinrog, I've just purchased an .074 Norvel tonight along with a AT-6 Texan plane from Herr. Hopefully the LHS will get in the Hitec micro flight pack by early next week and I can be up and flying next wekend.

Edwin

My Feedback: (2)

I have one on a scratch built little stick, 30" ws. I broke it in by fueling up then heating the cylinder with the hot air gun. If you have the piston bumped up against compression, the prop will move back when its hot enough (air expansion). Then you can hit it with the starter. Mine has about 7 hours on it at this time. Flys fast. I run an APC 6x3 with 40%. Just about keeps up with the .40 sized hotrods.
Edwin

BUCKETOBOLTS

My Feedback: (1)

Have 2 074's. My first of coarse bent a rod. Not because of improper break in, but because I flooded the engine and bumped it with my starter. Now my second has not given a moments trouble. I do not prime it be for I start it. It seems to like this.

mynameisAARON

I have a .074 with about 1 hour on it, but a broken rod
I can't see spending 20.00 for the whole set when i could make a new rod , if i knew the length

Aaron

BUCKETOBOLTS

My Feedback: (1)

I know what your saying. Mine bent the rod the first time I bumped it with the starter. The second time the rod cracked the skirt on the piston. Duuhhh... So I just broke down and bought another engine and a piston set.

powerglide

My Feedback: (4)

broke a 074 rod in air, come to think about it ,it felt funny on breakin,would hardly turn over, felt like a ABC setup doin the TDC thing, ran it a couple times in air the 3rd time it snapped, so for those of us needing one were stuck with buying the whole assmbly, havent experimented with other brand rods but could be something out there re replacment, let me know>>>>>>>>>

BUCKETOBOLTS

My Feedback: (1)

Powerglide, when you before you ran the breakin on your engine did you soak the cylinder over night in an oil bath?

powerglide

My Feedback: (4)

bucket>>>>>>>been messin with these motors for 35 yrs, never heard of that one,sounds kinky to me

BUCKETOBOLTS

My Feedback: (1)

They say the cylinder is "revlite" material and is actually porous. You soak the engine to embed oil in the cylinder for breakin. I have inspected my cylinder, its different from a chrome or nickel cylinder.

powerglide

My Feedback: (4)

bucket>>>>>>>interesting concept, Ive had that tight feeling on small mills before always does it on the way to TDC, just like a ABC setup but its not, I know. when looking in the back door I see the bottom end of the rod slopping around on the crankpin, looks like its its locking up comin around for the firing stroke-hummm need to figure that one out, so what would a cylinder soak have to do with a broken rod except extra work on the piston and in turn the rod--------------

fastlash

My Feedback: (7)

close

BUCKETOBOLTS

My Feedback: (1)

Yep, it ussually turns out cheaper to read the instructions first.

powerglide

My Feedback: (4)

DIDNT SAY IT WAS ROCKET SCIENCE PARTNER BUT THATS THE KIND OF REPLY ID EXSPECT FROM SOME, SOMETIMES INSTRUCTIONS ARENT ALL THIER CRACKED UP TO BE, YOU SHOULD KNOW THAT BEING AN EXPERT))))))RIGHT. HAVE A NICE DAY

3 Channel Brain

Right don't turn the thing if it's liquid locked (any engine)
mine did not say anything about soaking the cylinder . I would recommend cleaning off the outside of the glo plug tho-mine wouldn't start because of no plug ground. good little engine now tho.

prole

My Feedback: (3)

Powerglide -

It sounds to me that you broke the rod in your engine because it wasn't broken in enough/properly. There is a LOT of talk about these little engines around here and if you listen to the bulk of the comments you'll learn that-

a. they take a LONG time to break in

b. when you first get them they will almost lock up at TDC, that's good, it means the parts are fit to precise tolerances. You take off the head and the plug and soak it in a bath of thick oil, 10w-30 or Castor, for as long as you can stand to leave it alone.

c. when you put it all back together you have to put on a prop and just flip it over and over for as long as it takes to loosen it up. It takes a while but it happens, if you do it by hand you'll actually feel it.

Once they start to pass through TDC without locking up then you start it up and run it RICH and SLOW till you can take the plug battery off and not have it drop off.


It takes forever, it really does, but if you listen to the guys around here you'll see that it's worth it...


I don't mean to take anything away from your 35 years but it seems like the people around here, myself included, who have followed the directions have had better luck than you have doing it your way.


I also can't help but notice that your getting a little snappy with our friend Fastlash. I've seen it happen in a few threads. No one here is saying things to cut at each other, that defeats the whole purpose of us sharing our knowledge and LEARNING. In my opinion that is the most important thing you can get from this site. If you can't take some constructive criticism then you're in the wrong place.


I don't know about anyone else but I spend an awful lot of time here and I don't like to see this bickering, it's a waste of time...

powerglide

My Feedback: (4)

"EASY DOES IT ??THINK YOU NEED TO FOLLOW YOUR OWN ADVICE PARTNER)))))))))))))

spyder0069

I've got 3 of these so far. In fact I sold all my .25 size planes and moved to 1/2a completely. For break in I let mine soak in 10w30 for about an hour with the head and glow plug off. Then I run my electric starter on it for about 1 minute intervals and checking lubrication in between intervals. The starter is a standard starter but is powered by a 9.6V battery pack that is about 3amps (most r/c car packs will also work). This limits the torque and helps prevent any rod problems. After things loosen up well (be sure to sand your props to save your fingers, wearing gloves is best) it will still be dead tight if you slowly turn the prop but will be normal if you give it a quick flip. I have only had one problem and that happened one time while I was still using the starter on standard 12V was in the middle of a day of flying. Checked to see if the motor was flooded and it was fine. Went to start it and it spun for about 10 seconds and then spun off the prop hub. The motor no longer turned over well. I was sure I bent the rod. This was a motor that I had been flying on for about a month (almost a flight a day) and then had put away for a week. I got it apart at home to find the rod was fine. Pulled the rod and piston and the crank was having a problem turning in the case in one spot. After a lot of cleaning and relubing with 10w30 is was spinning over better but still not loosely like originally. After about 6oz of fuel everything came back to normal. Engine runs great today on a 7x3 prop and one head shim. My guess is that the oil gallery that runs down the length of the case got gummed up and didn't provide proper lube to the crank and it heated up with the starter and warped something. Things could have been a lot worse though! Anyway my planes include:

Herr AT-6 Texan .074 running a 7x3 APC (21 oz)
Herr Cloud Ranger .074 running a 6x4 cox prop (26 oz)
House of Balsa Chipmunk .074 running a 6x3 cox prop (23 oz)

All are great flying planes and are full 4 channel setups. All fly completely different from each other. The texan is fantastic though and herr makes the best kits in my opinion (I am a flyer and not much of a builder). They go together too easy!

powerglide

My Feedback: (4)

ya , I hear ya spyder and you could have a point, cheap fuel could also be the culprit re insufficient lub----------I try to use non synthetic oil but dont always stick to it))))))) after yrs messin with these things castor seems to be the best protection in all aspects,on the down side castor mix can cause some bad things, but thats solved with engine maintanence. true ,the bottom end of the rod does "slop out on the crankpin and needs to be furture investigated>>>>>>"too many projects not enough time!!!!!

DICKEYBIRD

Hey Palm Pilot, you still out there? A friend sent me this pic today and when I saw your "handle", I had to post it! It's a picture of an "Arkansas Palm Pilot"....besides, I haven't stirred up 2fast lately! (He lives in Arkansas)

Palm Pilot

My Feedback: (1)

Be back in a minute, busy picking up some beer! There them palm pilots from Arkansas shure no how to fly.

HEhe, thats great and funny. Finally, a real palm pilot after my own heart. Keep em coming.

AndyW

My Feedback: (1)

After having two of these break a rod, one after the other, I got a little annoyed so I had a real close look inside. As it turns out, the problem was that the half moon undercut on the piston skirt on both was just a little too shallow. This allowed the bottom of the piston to bump the crank web. Not enough to feel but enough so that 16,000 slight bumps per minute were enough to stress the rods to breaking point. Evidence of the bumping is clear if you look real close.

Not to worry though. Sig made good, no problems and replaced both piston/cylinder sets with new ones. These show adequate clearance and I've run both at 19K with no problems for a good many flights.

Break-in needs special attention with the Norvel Revlites. They have a nickel plated piston with a hard anodized cylinder. This makes them very durable in ordinary use. However, the design philosophy requires that they be fit extremely tight when new. The trick is to run them in on the bench. Use a heat gun to heat the cylinder hot, real hot. Thereafter the engine will flip over easily and you can get it started. Once run in with a number of five minute runs with thorough cooling in between, they will seat in nicely and will turn over easily even when cold. You may need the heat gun treatment for the first 3 or 4 quick runs but the engine will progressively loosen up. If you don't do it this way, strongarming the engine over with a starter or even by hand could bend and break the rod even if you don't have bad piston clearance. .

All ABC and AAN engines are tight at the top but the Revlites are tight to the extreme. Don't blame yourself if you have trouble. The design is unique and not well understood. Norvel could make the rod a little fatter on the stem and/or give better break-in instructions

The good news is that this is one sweet engine. It is light,quite powerful and affordable. It even throttles decently despite not having an adjustable airbleed.

AndyW

My Feedback: (1)

After having two of these break a rod, one after the other, I got a little annoyed so I had a real close look inside. As it turns out, the problem was that the half moon undercut on the piston skirt on both was just a little too shallow. This allowed the bottom of the piston to bump the crank web. Not enough to feel but enough so that 16,000 slight bumps per minute were enough to stress the rods to breaking point. Evidence of the bumping is clear if you look real close.

Not to worry though. Sig made good, no problems and replaced both piston/cylinder sets with new ones. These show good clearance and have run them at 19K with no problems for half the summer.

Break-in needs special attention with the Norvel Revlites. They have a nickel plated piston with a hard anodized cylinder. This makes them very durable in ordinary use. However, the design philosophy requires that they be fit extremely tight when new. The trick is to run them in on the bench. Use a heat gun to heat the cylinder hot, real hot. Thereafter the engine will flip over easily and you can get it started. Once run in with a number of five minute runs with thorough cooling in between, they will seat in nicely and will turn over easily even when cold. You may need the heat gun treatment for the first 3 or 4 quick runs but the engine will progressively loosen up. If you don't do it this way, strongarming the engine over with a starter or even by hand could bend and break the rod even if you don't have bad piston clearance. Norvel could make the rod a little fatter on the stem and/or give better break-in instructions.

The good news is that this is one sweet engine. It is light/quite powerful and affordable. It even throttles decently despite not having an adjustable airbleed.

AndyW

My Feedback: (1)

After reading further, feel the need to add more comment on the Norvel Revlites. I won't question anyone's success in getting their Revlites to run but soaking in oil is not the real solution. Neither is running in the engine when cold using an electric motor. The idea is that the cylinder expands when up to running temperature and gives a just right fit and compression seal. If you force it over cold, when new, you will be prematurely wearing out the fit. Plus, the extra stress on the rod will either break it, bend it, or wear out the bore on both ends. To break in any engine properly you have got to get it up to running temperature for brief runs with thorough cooling in between. Don't let the heat gun treatment think that this is contradictory. The heat gun doesn't get the engine as hot as when at running temperature. It simply makes the engine easier to turn over to get it started. Thereafter, running at operating temperature gets the break-in process going.

As in any ABC type of set up with a tight piston fit, you do not want to run the engine rich when new EVER. It won't come up to operating temperature and will wear out,,, not in. Dial it in to a just lean two cycle for the first three or so five minute runs. Then for the next three or more runs you can lean it out just a bit at a time.

Again, the reason for some of the difficulty by some modelers is that this is a unique system. Similar to ABC design philosophy but also very different. The Revlite cylinders are hard anodized. This means that they are so hard, only diamonds are harder, just about. That's why the pistons are nickel plated. Engines need a soft hard combination. Norvel has done this one (or two better) with a hard, extremely hard combination. The extreme fit at the top is there because the hard nickle is meant to wear into the cylinder for a fit that no other system can match. The Norvel engineers come from Russia's space program so they know what they are doing. They just need to improve on their instructions. And maybe make a fatter rod.

Also, the porous nature of the anodized cylinder does contribute to better power and even to better mileage. The pores of the anodized cylinder retain oil but have plenty of factory oil and the oil treatment isn't strictly necessary.