mike98624

finally, it has arrived!! just this morning my new laser3d kit arrived from TowerHobbies via UPS. This is the thread that i will be posting in throughout the building process. I suspect that building this plane, because i have to go to school everyday (too bad), will take me till around January - March of 2003 or so. This is my first really serious kit, AND I WOULD LIKE IT TO COME OUT NICE. i guess i might as well start off with first impressions, so here goes:

I opened the box when it came and instanly knew that i was dealing with high-quality stuff. Everything was very neat and tidy, all squared away with card-board dividers. I have never had a plane with a real cowl so i immediately grabbed it and sat there thinkin' oh, boy, i have to paint it (i hate painting). I got out the plans and was astonsihed immeidiatly at how nice they were. made of relatively thick paper, and very precise. The wing looked absolutely huge! I thought, if i can build this thing, i will really have out-done myself! I'm used to smaller plans so i had to get a 4x8 foot piece of foam to use as a board. The laser cut parts are really nice, no more of those sloppy punched out pieces! Anyway, everything looks great so far and i am currently going through the written instructions. I have several issues to deal with though:
1. the motor mount looks ridiculous. They say you should construct it out of the plywood parts they give you but it doesn't look to strong. I'm using a heavy enya cx-50 in it so i don't know whether or not to use it. Any ideas?
2. I have heard many people say that the elevator is weak and that it needs reinforcing. How do you suggest doing this? The back of the instructions say that they strongly advise against any kind of reiforcement of straying from exactly how they say to do it. Again, any ideas?
3. i have also heard that the plane is better without wingtips. Is it a good idea to build it without them from the start, cut them off later, or just plain fly with them forever? Suggestions?
4. They give you an 8-ounce fuel tank with it but that seems awfully small to me. how about a 12-ouncer?
OK, i have said enough for now, i don't have access to a digital camera at the moment and probably won't for a while. Comments, suggestions, ideas, prasie, hatemail, etc. all apreciated. Thanx.

mike98624

the wing fitting is kinda odd, it looks like you're supposed to put the wing in with two pegs in front and one bolt in back and then insert an assembly on the bottom of the wing to match the underside of the fuse. odd...

how about gussets in the elevator joints for strength?

mike98624

well, i read through the intructions and everything seems normal enough. I didn't read through them in great detail except for the first part: the wing. this actually looks like relatively easy model to build. the laser-cut parts should make things a snap.

mike98624

anybody have any ideas as for how to pin the ribs and spars down/together so i can align it without it all falling apart? using no pins at all doesn't work, and pinning it to the table doesn't help much because of the symmetrical airfoil. they tell you to pin the pieces together until you glue them but i'm afraid that t-pins will split the wood. help!

BTM

No need for the plans for most of the build. The only time that I used the plans was for the tail feathers, and control surfaces.
It may seem strange, But just put all of the parts together for each wing half, make sure that they are square (and they will be), then lightly tack with thin ca, then check again before final gluing.
It's amazing that you find that everything goes together perfect.
By the way, I posed this picture in the other thread. My wife is pi$$ed at me due to the sun squint on her face!!

mike98624

thanx i will try that again. lol i'm surprised she let you post it! yours looks nice mine will be in monokote jet-white and insignia blue. should look good, i hope. i was beginning to think all you people were getting disinterested. does anybody really want to hear me go on about building this plane? if anybody is truly interested, say something! if not, i wont waste my time... your choice guys...

dhooks

My Feedback: (24)

Hey go for it, I've been drooling over one myself. Convince me its easy to build so I get it instead of something ARFy!

mike98624

ok then, this thread is still breathing! if your're wondering, it looks like and easy build from the instructions and such and i haven't had any problems yet, except ones caused by me. the laser cut parts are so easy to work with, none of those nasty crunch marks all over everything! it is goin' well. i might build both wing halves and if i'm lucky join them tomorrow. i sure hope i can get a hold of my digital camera to take pics of this, it is truly amazing!

robert

Hmmm, I am thinking of getting one. Just want to know though, how does it fly in the wind? I like the Madness, but I hear that it is not very good in the wind. (We get plenty of that in Ireland!). Also, what mounts are you using? I have an Irvine 53 that'll have to do, although I might switch to a YS 63.
Thanks,
Robert.

BTM

This plane is a riot in the wind.
Vertical (or backwards) elevators right down to the runway........
Just remember to program in about 15% spoilerons to get the thing to come back to earth. This is my favorite airplane!

And Crazy Mike, keep it going, and if theres anything I can help with, just let me know!

mike98624

thanx guys,
i finished the first half of the eing today and i found everything very easy. i used masking tape to hold stuff together before i glued it, worked well. This is still the easiest kit i've ever built!

BTM

The only part of this plane that was a pain to me was the fore deck/turtledeck sheeting. They give you some pretty thick balsa to do the job, so make sure that you wet it down good and tape it, then let it dry to form it before gluing it.

BTM

You definitely want to gusset the elevator halves at all of the joints around the counter balances.
In fact I'm going to build another one some day, and on that one I will sheet the tail feathers with 1/16 balsa for overall strength

mike98624

i have got some 1/32 balsa layin' around. is it worth it to sheet with that? should i still make gussets in addition? i still need to know whether or not to build wingtips. anybody?

radfly

I fell in love with this baby soon as I flew it the first time. It is super 3D capable, easy to build, and strong without adding any refinements.

I only altered the design by cutting off the tips about 10 flights in, which did nothing but make it fly better.

I have had a lot of planes, and this is the only one I have flown since summer. There is nothing that compares.

I run an OS .52 4-stroke and the combo is just perfect. I get plenty of run time and have nothing but a blast with it every weekend.

The guys at the field keep asking me what else I am currently building, or plan on building. I just keep telling them, "nothing". I have no need for another plane.

I am contemplating selling all my other planes and equipment, but will hold off for awhile. But, if I manage to crash this thing, which is almost impossible, I will most likely just build another. Since it only takes a week, why not?

I run carbon fiber rods and MK gear throughout. And, the servos are all digital Hitec.

If you know how to build, and know how to fly, there are no alterations necessessary to this plane, other than to cut the tips off. They look good, but they kill the roll rate and stability at low speed.

I wish Laser would stop making the kit, so I could steal the design and market it as an ARF. You can easily have a staff build this thing from kit and sell as an ARF, and make money, even with American workers. Just look at the cost of the Madness ARF. Same thing! There are VERY few differences in design.

mike98624

alright then! i think what i will do is build it without tips, strengthen the elevator,and maybe put a 10-12 oz. tank in it (my enya 50-cx is a glow-guzzler!). everything else i think i will keep stock. i will use reinforcing pins in the elevator joints for strength. if anybody is interested or hasn't heard of this great strengthening method, say something, i will explain. i'm hittin' da hay, daylight savings is brutal!

mike98624

i have been using thin and medium CA in conjunction for the joints so far, and will continue to do so throughout plane. i don't emphasize on light but a lot on strong... i'm thinking expoxy for where the wing joins...

Crazy mike

BTM

Radfly,

The reason that I had to re-inforce the elevator was because we have a grass field, and when I would do an elevator or harrier landing the compression of the tailwheel, along with the huge elevator throws would cause the counter balances to hit the grass and being less that robust, they would break.
Thats why on the next one I will sheet the tail feathers, not only for the grass, but to clean up a lot of the flexing inherent in this design.

rcman-RCU

My Feedback: (31)

Crazy Mike:

The type of flying you do will determine what servos you need. For radical 3D flying, I think you will need the high torque servos previously mentioned. If you use standard servos, just reduce the throws on the control surfaces. Make sure you are using near 100% output on the servos, usually about 45 degrees each way. Reduce the control surface throws by using long horns on the control surfaces and short servo arms. This will reduce the load on the control surfaces (less deflection equals lower load) and increase the mechanical advantage of the servos. You can always upgrade to stronger servos later and easily change the linkages.

radfly

BTM, I wasn't trying to diss you, man. I do not attempt harrier landings, well, that often that is. I have had two power-off landing that turned into that. But, the plane took it ok. I did have to straighten the tail gear when it did.

I am by no means a pro, and keep my flying at least two mistakes high. And with this plane at 3D rates and no tip stall tendancy, that is about 20 feet high.

I agree the elevator could be hosed with a hard contact with the ground, and if you are into that sort of thing, definately reinforce it with CF or sheeting.

This plane could easily suffor an additional 6 oz of strenthing for reinforcement, without a noticable flight performance hit.

rcman-RCU

My Feedback: (31)

How is the cowl on the Laser 3D? If it is not fiber glass, has anyone had trouble with the cowl cracking? Is there an aftermarket fiberglass cowl available? Thanks.

Crazy Mike: I think you can lock your other thread so that no more postings can be added to it. Otherwise these two threads are going to get very confusing.

Ramrod: Keep us posted on the Magnum 61 four stroke. It is definitely light. I hope it lasts longer than that Magnum 40 I gave you quite a few years ago.

robert

Do you really need high torque servos on all surfaces? I was going to put 9001s on the rudder, and 3004s or 148s on everything else.

BTM

rcman,
The cowl is fiberglass and pretty strong. I chose to mount the engine sideways, so I had to chop it up more than I wanted, but it's holding up pretty good.

robert,

The servos depend on how you want to fly it. If you use reasonable rates you should be okay. If your going to set it up with max throws, then I think 60+ oz servos are needed.

radfly,

No dis taken here at all, I just was explaining the problem that I was having with the grass field breaking the counter balances.
Wait till ya pull an elevator down to land! It is for sure a rush and a half. I'm no TOC pilot (average at best), but I'm getting to where I'm starting to come down lower than ever, and sometimes I'm about as smooth as sand paper on maneuvers!
This plane will make you try things that you wouldn't have tried before!
After my wife gets up, I'll grab the camera and take pictures of the throws, and what you'll be facing.

mike98624

so how do you lock a thread?

i built the wing halves today and i am about to go build the wing-tips before sleep...

rcman-RCU

My Feedback: (31)

Click on the edit link at the bottom of the first thread you posted. On the edit screen, there is an option you can select to close the thread. Then submit the change.